Great Western Mainline - Signal "UM 207"

[50Fan91]

Hello all -

A quick query relating to the above signal. I am of the understanding that signal UM 207 is located somewhere between Teignmouth and Dawlish stations, but unfortunately I have been unable to find out any more exact details.

I am just wondering if anyone knows exactly where this signal can be found? My reason for asking is that the other day I happened to be in Dawlish Warren car park. At the same time some NR contractors were preparing to dispose of the old and corroded UM 207 signal post. I asked if it was going for scrap, to which they replied it was. I asked if it would be possible for them to save the signal ID plate for me, (we all collect strange things occasionally, don't we?) and I was extremely pleased when they agreed to this!

It would be great to know where the signal is located, and if anyone could possibly point me in the direction of some pictures which might have the signal in the background, that would be even better.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Tomnick]

Try this photo .

 

[50Fan91]

Try this photo .

Thank you so much - I can't believe that someone has come up with the perfect response that quickly!

You've just made me rather happy by providing practically everything I wanted to know about the signal in one picture!

 

[Tomnick]

No worries . I don't know the area that well, but the numbering convention used on this, and numerous others, for auto signals helps - so I knew that signal 'UM207' was situated on the Up Main between mileposts 207 and 208. A quick reference to Quail showed that Parsons Tunnel fell within that mile, so any signal was fairly likely to be just in rear of that tunnel - once I knew that, it was fairly easy to find an image for you.

Interesting to note that it's an auto signal but not plated as such, probably on account of the tunnels (and unstable rock faces?) beyond.

 

[50Fan91]

Ah, well that explains that then! I understood the "UM" classification, but was unaware that the 207 referred to mileposts. But as they say - you learn something new every day!

Thanks again!

 

[Old Timer]

In signalling terms, signals are now either "passable" or "not passable". This adds a further complication in that an automatic signal will in some cases be plated as a controlled signal even though the signalman may have no control over it.

 

[Tomnick]

Indeed - I believe that there's a pair of signals somewhere in Sheffield PSB's area (unless it's gone into Derby now) that used to protect a crossover or something that's since been removed, and are plated as automatic (or 'passable'!) despite continuing to be controlled signals. Presumably no benefit in altering the interlocking to convert them to auto signals.

 

[Old Timer]

Indeed - I believe that there's a pair of signals somewhere in Sheffield PSB's area (unless it's gone into Derby now) that used to protect a crossover or something that's since been removed, and are plated as automatic (or 'passable'!) despite continuing to be controlled signals. Presumably no benefit in altering the interlocking to convert them to auto signals.

Absolutely correct. Dronfield ??

 

[DavidBrown]

Also bear in mind that the Up line is bi-directional, with signals in both directions, so presumably they'd be manually controlled in the even of the Down line being closed?

 

[Tomnick]

Dronfield sounds about right, OT - thought it was somewhere between Dore and Chesterfield. Not sure whether the resignalling extended that far though.

It's quite common for 'intermediate' signals along a single or reversible line to be automatics - either reverting to Danger when a route is set in the opposite direction, or (less common?) continuing to display a proceed aspect until a train approaches from the opposite direction (as with the SIMBIDS on the northern ECML, where they can be seen to step G-YY-Y-R-G as a train approaches and passes 'facing road'. Either way, the integrity of the single line is maintained by the controlled signals at either end.

 

[headshot119]

Signal UM207 has an emergency replacement switch which may explain it not being plated as an auto.

 

[Tomnick]

Shoudn't make a difference - plenty of auto signals have emergency replacement switches but are still plated as autos. The tunnel and/or rock faces might be why you wouldn't want, once the emergency replacement switch has been operated, an auto plate inviting a Driver to pass it on his own authority though.

 

[Hydro]

. The tunnel and/or rock faces might be why you wouldn't want, once the emergency replacement switch has been operated, an auto plate inviting a Driver to pass it on his own authority though.

I honestly can't remember, but I'm sure once an SPRS has keyed out the signal, a handsignalman must be posted at the signal (possibly amended to placing a PLB)? This will prevent the driver passing on his own authority. The last (and only) time I was assisting a HSM (carrying the detonators as I had big pockets), the auto signal was keyed out, a red flag displayed and a det placed at the signal.

 

[Old Timer]

Hydro
That was the old rule.

An SPRS key may be operated by anyone, and a PLB placed by anyone.

There is no longer any need for anyone to remain at the signal, because in theory the line must be given back before passage of a train is due.

 

[Hydro]

Fantastic, cheers OT.

 

[Tomnick]

Makes sense once the signal has been keyed to Danger locally (to protect engineering works) but probably not an immediate option when the emergency replacement switch many miles away has been operated (to protect bits of cliff on the Up Main!)

 

[Old Timer]

Fantastic, cheers OT.

No worries chap, except for the further dumbing down of the system. :roll:

By the way did you respond to the Super Red question on here recently ??

 

[Hydro]

I know, it's all getting a bit "Ladybird My First Railway Rule Book".

 

[Old Timer]

I know, it's all getting a bit "Ladybird My First Railway Rule Book".

Just NR paving the way for the Eastern Europeans. Now wait for the relaxation of the language requirements.

Want to hold me to a pint on that one ?

Its soon time for the RailUK Forum professional Infrastructure Engineers annual get together !

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I know, it's all getting a bit "Ladybird My First Railway Rule Book".

Management have to understand it somehow (Save for the managers that actually know what they are doing, like OT!)

 

[Hydro]

I daresay the moths in my wallet wouldn't mind being disturbed for the odd pint. The Engineers get together, the only place where the glass isn't half full, nor half empty; it is twice as large as it should be.

And yes, I did respond to the Super Red question. Managed to get the OP out on the inspection coach to see how we find Super Reds too. A nice little day out!

 

[Old Timer]

I daresay the moths in my wallet wouldn't mind being disturbed for the odd pint. The Engineers get together, the only place where the glass isn't half full, nor half empty; it is twice as large as it should be.

And yes, I did respond to the Super Red question. Managed to get the OP out on the inspection coach to see how we find Super Reds too. A nice little day out!

Nice one chap !