Great Western Livery

[devonexpress]

Certainly within the sleeper repaints, the contractors are not giving us what we requested. Not just vinals but quality and even different shades..... These will take time to rectify.

I have noticed myself with certain MK3 sleepers having a lighter shade doors than the rest. I just don't understand why they are making such balls up of it!

 

[superalbs]

I have noticed myself with certain MK3 sleepers having a lighter shade doors than the rest. I just don't understand why they are making such balls up of it!

A few have weird window rims too.

 

[thelongestroad]

Some people might see it as being petty or silly, but British Airways actually spent a week checking every inch of the First Class cabin on a A380 when delivered for scratches etc, if GWR actually paid attention to its trains in the same way, then people might actually believe half the garble the pretend to care about in "The Renaissance of Rail"

Please don't tell me you fell for that crap? It was just for TV, you only have to head to the British Airways board on FlyerTalk to show how little regard BA shows for its customers and presentation of it's aircraft. It's no better than GWR, arguably worse!

 

[fgwrich]

Certainly within the sleeper repaints, the contractors are not giving us what we requested. Not just vinals but quality and even different shades..... These will take time to rectify.

I can understand and I'm not surprised either. For example, here are a couple of photos I took on a trip on the NR over summer. Seeing paint already fall off, and the matt sash (presumably vinyl?) applied with what looks like Wallpaper Paste is hardly presenting the desired image - add into that the near differing shades of green, missing stickers or stickers in the wrong places to boot, it all works against GWs favour of bringing the desired effect. I know, a you say these things will take time to rectify but some of them shouldn't be happening in the first place.

Incidentally, I've noticed 150001 & the refurbished Turbo's seem to have a mixture of FGW (Blue) and GWR (Dark Green) stickers in them too.

 

[co-tr-paul]

There is over spray on some and sanding down rubbings on many windows.... .

 

[jimm]

Your clearly not the sort of person that uses high class retailers and travel then. Most people might not give a monkey's but its about presenting an image, i.e attention to detail, giving a personal service etc. Something First Group don't seem to get the hang of.

Some people might see it as being petty or silly, but British Airways actually spent a week checking every inch of the First Class cabin on a A380 when delivered for scratches etc, if GWR actually paid attention to its trains in the same way, then people might actually believe half the garble the pretend to care about in "The Renaissance of Rail"

I'm so pleased you can tell from a post on here what a downmarket sort of person I am... but I certainly can't afford a first class ticket on BA to play 'spot the scratches'...

Has it ever occurred to you that GWR might be trying to refine the livery in the light of experience? You may not be aware that when the dynamic lines livery made its appearance on an HST for the first time in 2006, the power cars also had dynamic lines on them - this was dropped for the definitive version.

https://bigsky47539.smugmug.com/ADayinaYear/A-Day-in-a-Year-April-1st-June/April-4th/i-hHGVFbJ/A

And there are clearly some issues with quality control of work by external workshops/contractors.

But I am pleased to note you agree that most people won't "give a monkey's" about the odd strip of vinyl.

 

[destere]

Some people might see it as being petty or silly, but British Airways actually spent a week checking every inch of the First Class cabin on a A380 when delivered for scratches etc, if GWR actually paid attention to its trains in the same way, then people might actually believe half the garble the pretend to care about in "The Renaissance of Rail"

BA checking for marks was all for show. That company is devaluing itself on so many levels in reality. The state of many of their cabins is often in the XC Voyager territory, First class or not...

Thing is, it's a railway. It's a service, not a luxury, and for the majority a real necessity. Even if you compare it to an airline that really cares like say, Cathay Pacific, you'll never get that level of attention to detail on a day to day basis with the railway. The competition doesn't really exist and the product serves a different purpose under very different circumstances. If the trains are just about acceptable, the vast majority of people will suck it up. First class could receive more attention, but still it's going to be limited.

 

[Deepgreen]

I'm so pleased you can tell from a post on here what a downmarket sort of person I am... but I certainly can't afford a first class ticket on BA to play 'spot the scratches'...

Has it ever occurred to you that GWR might be trying to refine the livery in the light of experience? You may not be aware that when the dynamic lines livery made its appearance on an HST for the first time in 2006, the power cars also had dynamic lines on them - this was dropped for the definitive version.

https://bigsky47539.smugmug.com/ADayinaYear/A-Day-in-a-Year-April-1st-June/April-4th/i-hHGVFbJ/A

And there are clearly some issues with quality control of work by external workshops/contractors.

But I am pleased to note you agree that most people won't "give a monkey's" about the odd strip of vinyl.

Does that include multiple missing information labels, downright wrong information; e.g. the two 166s I have seen with incorrect first class identification, with standard class shown on the outside as being first, and vice versa at the other end, and significant livery elements peeling off? FGW/GWR have consistently turned out numerous examples of livery errors, not just aesthetic details or colour variations, but basic information, all of which dilutes their much-vaunted re-launch greatly and which should simply not be hard to get right every time.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Has anyone actually contacted the publicity department about this...... ?!

 

[Deepgreen]

Has anyone actually contacted the publicity department about this...... ?!

I have attempted to get sensible (or even vaguely relevant) responses from FGW/GWR on various topics for years, with very little success, so I very much doubt that they will be interested now that the re-launch has passed. It does make me wonder who checks these things - no-one I assume - and how long these basic errors will persist (until the next re-launch perhaps?).

 

[pdeaves]

It did at 20 September (see https://www.flickr.com/photos/pdeaves/29193682663/). When/why were they removed?

I think the answer to the mystery is that it appears to be on one side only.

Last Saturday (29 October) I saw what was definitely the other side of 43002 and it had GWR labels in the window.

 

[PHILIPE]

Last Saturday (29 October) I saw what was definitely the other side of 43002 and it had GWR labels in the window.

43002 (and 43185) have their own thread here:-

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=128034&

It is a rather lengthy thread but I don't think there is any mention of the labels

 

[co-tr-paul]

I have attempted to get sensible (or even vaguely relevant) responses from FGW/GWR on various topics for years, with very little success, so I very much doubt that they will be interested now that the re-launch has passed. It does make me wonder who checks these things - no-one I assume - and how long these basic errors will persist (until the next re-launch perhaps?).

As a member of the Night Riviera maintainace Team, I have certainly noticed and reported these things since the relivery. I am personally appalled by the standard of which our vehicles are being returned.

 

[Deepgreen]

As a member of the Night Riviera maintainace Team, I have certainly noticed and reported these things since the relivery. I am personally appalled by the standard of which our vehicles are being returned.

Good to know.

However, the 166s are now running round as a fleet of trains which are riddled with livery errors (not just aesthetic stuff), on top of which their facilities are broken far too widely -

1. Internal doors not working (not the ones which have been deliberately disabled next to the declassified first class).
2. Internal PIS not working or wrong.
3. Spot lights above seats not working/wrongly/wired to switches.
4. Tables loose or completely broken.
5. Air conditioning which rarely works (despite the wildly optimistic signs on the hopper windows!).
6. Hopper windows which won't either open with a 'J' key or close properly.
7. Windows which are full of internal moisture.
8. Heating which (seemingly) won't switch off or turn down.

They are easily the worst-maintained stock I can recall travelling on for a long time, and the basic and unforgivable livery errors just compounds the feeling of chaos.

 

[spark001uk]

I'm shocked at the way the drinks trays have been pulled off the walls in the declass, leaving an unsightly mess. I've seen them all missing on a number of units, so I'm assuming it's not vandalism?

 

[DenmarkRail]

BA checking for marks was all for show. That company is devaluing itself on so many levels in reality. The state of many of their cabins is often in the XC Voyager territory, First class or not...

Thing is, it's a railway. It's a service, not a luxury, and for the majority a real necessity. Even if you compare it to an airline that really cares like say, Cathay Pacific, you'll never get that level of attention to detail on a day to day basis with the railway. The competition doesn't really exist and the product serves a different purpose under very different circumstances. If the trains are just about acceptable, the vast majority of people will suck it up. First class could receive more attention, but still it's going to be limited.

BA are worse than Transavia or Easyjet! They charge for meals on short haul (That is low... Real low)

They have the same legroom in club europe than in economy....

We took a business class flight to CPH earlier this year, and it was not even different, apart from the cutlery.

We've been flying KLM for years now... Much better. Even in economy.

BA's scratch spotting game was just TV spin...

 

[devonexpress]

Also does anyone know what the purpose was of repainting the interior side of the doors on the HST sets?? Was it planned to have every set resprayed during rebranding and then decided it was too expensive??? All in all this seems to be the biggest mess the franchise has been in for some years(livery & maintenance wise)

 

[387star]

standardized station signage would make sense... the mix of network south east/thames trains/wessex trains/wales and west/InterCity signage and Great western merlin green is quite laughable

 

[fgwrich]

Also does anyone know what the purpose was of repainting the interior side of the doors on the HST sets?? Was it planned to have every set resprayed during rebranding and then decided it was too expensive??? All in all this seems to be the biggest mess the franchise has been in for some years(livery & maintenance wise)

I'm not too sure either as it doesn't seem to feature in the GWR scheme either. It also now leads to the slightly confused situation where the passenger saloon and exterior is in the older FGW scheme, with the vestibules have been repainted into a newer scheme.

standardized station signage would make sense... the mix of network south east/thames trains/wessex trains/wales and west/InterCity signage and Great western merlin green is quite laughable

That I'll agree with. I noticed this afternoon that Mortimer seems to be one of those 'confused' looking stations with NSE/FGW Link colored signage, but the door to the ticket office and benches have been repainted into the new GWR Green. While one stop down the line, Bramley - Not long repainted into FGW Blue, saw that quickly repainted last year into GWR Green & Grey.

However, the stations on the Cotswold Line appear to now have GWR branded station signs - Carried out in the finest of UK Railway traditions and line FGWLINK & Wessex Trains before that, by sticking a piece of vinyl along the bottom.

 

[The47Wanderer]

Just for the record (although off topic);
BA doing that inspection wasn't just for TV. It happens upon the delivery of a new aircraft or a refurbishment, just like TOCs do

But of course, it's not just something pretty to look at. It's going to be used and abused and scratches and marks are going to happen from day 1. And an airline or a TOC is not going to take a workhorse out of service for just a few scratches, it's not economically viable. Sure, gWr should've maybe used "stronger paint and stickers" or whatever, but for people to expect a meticulously sparkly train or plane after just 3 days of service is somewhat optimistic

 

[Sprinter153]

Also does anyone know what the purpose was of repainting the interior side of the doors on the HST sets?? Was it planned to have every set resprayed during rebranding and then decided it was too expensive??? All in all this seems to be the biggest mess the franchise has been in for some years(livery & maintenance wise)

One set, LA72 or as we call it 'the safe set', had the refurbished vestibule treatment then was fitted with enormous First blue and pink 'mind the gap' signs on the insides of the doors, and yellow stepboards for a PTI experiment. So that one's even more of a mix!

 

[devonexpress]

Just for the record (although off topic);
BA doing that inspection wasn't just for TV. It happens upon the delivery of a new aircraft or a refurbishment, just like TOCs do

But of course, it's not just something pretty to look at. It's going to be used and abused and scratches and marks are going to happen from day 1. And an airline or a TOC is not going to take a workhorse out of service for just a few scratches, it's not economically viable. Sure, gWr should've maybe used "stronger paint and stickers" or whatever, but for people to expect a meticulously sparkly train or plane after just 3 days of service is somewhat optimistic

Yeah that's what is was partly meaning, but what I also meant is that when a train is having work done on it over say week's period, other defects should all be sorted. I actually spoke to a member of staff the other day who was putting reservation cards on a train before it departure, and he was telling me how he had to reattach the plastic skirt between the windows and the bottom panel because someone had pulled it away as apparently it had the exact same problem for over a week, now what kind of impression does that give someone from aboard of our famous "GWR" brand.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Shall we not forget, ye older GWR had coaches with different width cream bands, different lining, different crests and nearly went maroon...! The most corperate livery, BR blue took years to fully be applied. Not forgetting that the original plan for the new GWR was green power cars and brown coaches/units with gold lining as applied to SO 12142 when first entered works but the government plan of IEP with SETs changed all that.
Back to topic now, rolling stock and traction not general discussion !

 

[Tom_HST1983]

Can anyone tell me how you can tell when a particular HST is coming through your local station? I live in malvern and have seen one of the two newly painted GWR HST's at ledbury, but i have had no luck since, i have seen the thread with the coaching stock numbers on them, Eg LA15/LA16, can you trace where these will be running??

thanks tom

 

[Michael.Y]

Only if you have access to stock running data, which isn't publically available. It relies on railway employees, specifically GWR ones, sharing info when available, which is usually from about 3am on any particular day in question.

 

[leomartin125]

Only if you have access to stock running data, which isn't publically available. It relies on railway employees, specifically GWR ones, sharing info when available, which is usually from about 3am on any particular day in question.

I have emailed GWR's tech team about getting a login for Genius and Tornado (P2), and am waiting a reply. But only because I work for the company on the platforms do I get a chance.

 

[Deepgreen]

Shall we not forget, ye older GWR had coaches with different width cream bands, different lining, different crests and nearly went maroon...! The most corperate livery, BR blue took years to fully be applied. Not forgetting that the original plan for the new GWR was green power cars and brown coaches/units with gold lining as applied to SO 12142 when first entered works but the government plan of IEP with SETs changed all that.
Back to topic now, rolling stock and traction not general discussion !

This is squarely on topic, as the thread is entitled 'Great Western Livery'.

While I happen to like the new GWR livery very much, in that it is elegant and unobtrusive in exactly the same ways that it predecessor was not, the actual livery used is not the point. Any livery needs to be applied properly and consistently, with fundamental things like first class identification, bicycle areas, disabled access areas etc., correctly shown. As things stand, FGW and GWR have signally failed to achieve this, despite the relatively huge attention they have chosen to draw to the re-branding. I also, obviously, recognise that it takes time to apply new liveries throughout a fleet, but when doing so, it should be done correctly every time. It shouldn't be difficult.

 

[FGW_DID]

This is squarely on topic, as the thread is entitled 'Great Western Livery'.

While I happen to like the new GWR livery very much, in that it is elegant and unobtrusive in exactly the same ways that it predecessor was not, the actual livery used is not the point. Any livery needs to be applied properly and consistently, with fundamental things like first class identification, bicycle areas, disabled access areas etc., correctly shown. As things stand, FGW and GWR have signally failed to achieve this, despite the relatively huge attention they have chosen to draw to the re-branding. I also, obviously, recognise that it takes time to apply new liveries throughout a fleet, but when doing so, it should be done correctly every time. It shouldn't be difficult.

You are right, it shouldn't be difficult. Can I just reiterate the fact it is an external company that is responsible for applying the decals. If you do notice an error please report it to GWR so they can take it up with the appropriate contractor.
Even if the error is picked up on depot once the job is complete, the hours may not be there to rectify it, either contractors work hours may be up or the unit may be required back in service. We can't hold it back just to rectify an error, that would impact on the rest of the planned maintenance regime.
Personally I can't understand why it's not done at Wolverton prior to release.

Do you happen to have a list of all the decal errors you have observed and the units involved?

 

[sd0733]

A sparking green 158 was poking its nose out of the shed at Bristol Barton Hill as I went past 5 mins ago so presume the 2nd 158 to be refurbed can't be far off being back.

 

[387star]

About time why so.long