Great Western Electrification Progress

[Mintona]

There are now 57 masts installed in the Llanwern area and 77 or 78 in the Marshfield area (I think I missed one). This is an increase of 28 and 6/7 respectively compared to a week ago.

 

[Dave1987]

If anyone wants a chuckle and a nice some up of the problems and mess ups on GW electrification, Ian Walmsley has done a nice column on the death of "Alec Trick" in the December edition of Modern Railways.

 

[Hophead]

Terribly sorry to change the subject a little and equally so for not possibly paying full attention some pages back, but what's the situation with Reading - Basingstoke electrification? I think I'm right in saying that this is now part of Great Western, rather than the now effectively abandoned Electric Spine.

However, I can recall no mention of it in the recent descoping announcements. Is it regarded as:

• Postponed, till some time in CP6 or so
• Dropped, and please don't ask again
• Oops - we forgot to mention this one
• Proceeding (no, really)

Thanks

 

[snowball]

Terribly sorry to change the subject a little and equally so for not possibly paying full attention some pages back, but what's the situation with Reading - Basingstoke electrification? I think I'm right in saying that this is now part of Great Western, rather than the now effectively abandoned Electric Spine.

However, I can recall no mention of it in the recent descoping announcements. Is it regarded as:

• Postponed, till some time in CP6 or so
• Dropped, and please don't ask again
• Oops - we forgot to mention this one
• Proceeding (no, really)

Nearer the second of those than any other, I think.

As you suggest it wasn't actually mentioned in the recent announcement in which Oxford, Bristol and the Thames Valley branches were deferred. I still think those that were deferred will happen in CP6, but no guarantee of that was given, let alone one for Basingstoke.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Press release

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...s-to-prepare-railway-line-for-electrification

Network Rail’s orange army will be out in force over the Christmas period as upgrade work continues in Chippenham ahead of electrification.

Workers will be on the track working through the night on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day as Network Rail look to install the piles used to support the cables that allow electric trains to run.

The work would ordinarily take several months if carried out over weekends but the Christmas period, when the railway is typically 50% quieter, allows for a substantial amount of work to be carried out in a much shorter space of time.

Ahead of the work Network Rail has worked closely with Wiltshire Council to ensure any disruption is kept to a minimum for those living near the railway.

Tom Boreham, Scheme Project Manager for Network Rail, said: “The period over Christmas when no trains are running is a vital time for us to upgrade the railway. It allows us more working time so we can achieve greater numbers of installed foundations per shift, which means we haven’t got to return to the area over a prolonged period of time. We have contacted all of the residents who live near to the railway to inform them of the work and invite them to our information sessions held in Chippenham in the lead up to Christmas.”

The piling work will take place on Christmas Eve from Bath Road to the B4528 railway bridge, on Christmas Day from Bath Road to Ivy Lane and on Boxing Day from Ladyfield Road to Chippenham station.

People who wish to find out more are invited to attend a community engagement session that is being run by Network Rail. They will take place on the following dates.

Wednesday, 7 December: Town Centre (10am - 5pm)
Saturday, 10 December: Olympiad Leisure Centre (9am - 12noon)
Monday, 12 December: Chippenham Station (7am – 10am and 4pm – 7pm)
Friday, 16 December: Town Centre / Market Day (10am – 5pm)
Monday, 19 December: Chippenham Station (7am – 10am and 4pm – 7pm)

Network Rail will also be contacting those living close to the railway directly ahead of the upgrade work. Passengers are being urged to check before they travel this Christmas by visiting nationalrail.co.uk/Christmas.

 

[MarkLong]

Letter from DfT for the deferred works:
Network Rail will be scheduling the deferred electrification work as part of their planning process for CP6. This will commence over the next year, once the department has set out
the priorities for the next control period, after taking advice from industry and local
stakeholders.

 

[Tw99]

There was a report on BBC South Today this morning from their transport "expert" Paul Clifton, where he said (paraphrasing slightly) that:

"When the new Hitachi GWR trains are introduced, they will be running on diesel only for many years, due to the late running of the electrification project".

I assume this is just showing the level of his "expertise" and not actually a change in what's happening, so they will be running on overhead power in the sections where it's available.

 

[fflint]

As others have said on this thread the GW electrification fiasco has thrown up many adverse comments and questions about Network Rail and the government's performance through this sorry affair.

As posted before on another thread about the Selby Hull plans for electrification being halted and the use of bi-modes. The junior minister wrote:

In his letter to MPs, Mr Maynard points to First Hull Trains’s decision to spend £60m on ‘bi-mode’ trains which can operate on both diesel and electric power. Mr Maynard said the Azuma trains soon to be brought into service by Virgin Trains would cut journey times to London while Arrival Rail North will introduce “new or refurbished trains” on services connecting Hull to Doncaster and Sheffield. The minister said the promised loan would have been repayable by the Government when the upgrade was complete, making the project “fully publicly funded”. Passengers in areas where electrification work had gone ahead had experienced “months of either complete line closure or mid-week nights and weekend closure”. “He added: “Given the number of passenger benefits already being delivered without electrification, there is almost no further benefit to justify further publicly funded investment and the disruption electrification would bring.”

Does this use of bi modes gives him the a get out of jail card, because he trumpets that there will be shiny new trains and all that disruption for electrification will be stopped.

I wasn't sure at the time if this was a new policy but after hearing the Transport minister Grayling's reply to a question in Parliament on Tuesday. I think this attitude is becoming the policy when questions about electrification are brought up.


Chris Grayling said in answer to a question about the Selby Hull project:

What actually happened was that before the point of being able to take a decision on electrification on the Hull line, Hull Trains and TransPennine ordered bi-mode trains that deliver the service improvements without any additional investment in unnecessary infrastructure. That means we can spend more money around the network to improve services. People in Hull should be pleased, because they are about to get smart new trains that will really improve services.

My bold.

To see all the answers to questions go to:

http://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-12-06/debates/16120653000001/RailInfrastructure(TrainOperatingCompanies

How many here think this will be used as way of reducing or at worse stopping many projects or just valid for Selby-Hull?

 

[TheKnightWho]

This is incredibly stupid as a get of jail free card - they may as well have just ordered diesel trains in the first place.

 

[HSTEd]

And just as I predicted, and was criticised for predicting, the bi-mode has killed the electrification programme.

 

[J-2739]

And yet in other countries, they're more than happy to electrify their railways at allocated times to allow the most Eco-friendly way to travel.

What is the UK actually doing to itself?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

And just as I predicted, and was criticised for predicting, the bi-mode has killed the electrification programme.

Not really. The point will come, and I suspect it is not far away, when the government realises (or is forced to do so) that this country is at high risk of failing to meet its commitments to reduce carbon emissions. And there is the growing swell of opinion that diesel-powered road vehicles should be banned from London altogether. Which will soon lead to demands for electrification of the Chiltern lines as well as elimination of the diesel-worked London legs of Uckfield and Waterloo-Basingstoke-Exeter services, not to mention the MML or open access services. ISTM that the real problem is the poor quality of the current ministerial post-holders who seem more interested in currying favour with their political superiors than in taking responsibility for the areas under their departmental control. But then it has long been the case that ministers in the DfT have tended to be career climbers who see the role as merely a way of gaining cabinet experience and influence rather than having any real interest in the subject.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

And just as I predicted, and was criticised for predicting, the bi-mode has killed the electrification programme.

Arguably, it has saved the services which were due for electrification.
It is surely NR which has killed its own golden electrification goose, by not being able to bring it in on time and (particularly) on cost.

 

[Class 170101]

Not really. The point will come, and I suspect it is not far away, when the government realises (or is forced to do so) that this country is at high risk of failing to meet its commitments to reduce carbon emissions. And there is the growing swell of opinion that diesel-powered road vehicles should be banned from London altogether. Which will soon lead to demands for electrification of the Chiltern lines as well as elimination of the diesel-worked London legs of Uckfield and Waterloo-Basingstoke-Exeter services, not to mention the MML or open access services.

I have to agree with this and add even if the politicans decide to ignore our commitments on carbon emissions there will come a point where oil will be so expensive that other methods will have to be found to power trains and indeed the rest of our economy that electrifiaction may well become the cheapest option simply because you burn coal, oil and gas in a power station more efficiently than via a combustion engine. Additionally electricity can be generated from other ources such as biomass, wind solar, tidal and hydro (and doubtless others) yet I am not sure we have yet found a viable way to power the combustion engines on trains without oil.

 

[HSTEd]

Not really. The point will come, and I suspect it is not far away, when the government realises (or is forced to do so) that this country is at high risk of failing to meet its commitments to reduce carbon emissions.

Railway carbon emissions are a few percent of the total - if we fail to meet those targets it was because privatisation of electricity and the rundown of research and development under Thatcher prevented any significant nuclear power programme from being implemented.

And there is the growing swell of opinion that diesel-powered road vehicles should be banned from London altogether. Which will soon lead to demands for electrification of the Chiltern lines

Will it?
Chiltern Lines are really not that significant in terms of traffic into london - and even though it is the last purely diesel worked main line into the city after the GWML is partially electrified it really hasn't got much potential for further growth and it will remain a rounding error.

Once HS2 guts its long distance market it will likely revert to being a relatively minor commuter railway. Electrification could be on the cards but with the massive cost of 25kV electrification it doesn't seem likely.

as well as elimination of the diesel-worked London legs of Uckfield and Waterloo-Basingstoke-Exeter services, not to mention the MML or open access services.

Congratulations - bi-modes allow you to do just that with negligible additional infrastructure spend!
It is almost certain a third rail bi-mode will make an appearance at some point, after all it is far simpler than a 25kV one. We are even potentially getting a dual voltage electrodiesel in the D319 pretty soon.

 

[YorkshireBear]

And just as I predicted, and was criticised for predicting, the bi-mode has killed the electrification programme.

Can't blame the Bi Mode for government incompetence.

 

[76020]

There have been two bits of "Positive" news in the last week about the GWR electrification

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_12_2016/post-6818-0-40369800-1480874096_thumb.png

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/art...ssrail-programme-switched-on-in-thames-valley

There has been a lot said on this thread recently about the deferred sections of the GWR electrification, my opinion is that the deferred sections will go ahead in CP6, for a start a lot has been done on the Chippenham to Bristol section, many bridges have been rebuilt and millions of pounds have been spent on the track lowering through Box Tunnel last summer.

As regards CP6, the outstanding work from CP5 will obviously swallow up a big part of it, that's if they choose to go down that path, no one is committing anything at the moment, let's see what happens next summer when it is announced.

Sorry about my poor grammar before I did the edit, I was half a sleep last night!

 

[Mikey C]

Chiltern Lines are really not that significant in terms of traffic into london - and even though it is the last purely diesel worked main line into the city after the GWML is partially electrified it really hasn't got much potential for further growth and it will remain a rounding error.

The line has experienced massive commuter growth and will continue to do so, as many towns on the route are expected to expand significantly. As a minimum, Chiltern will need to run longer stock, and there aren't large numbers of spare Turbostars around to do this.

The 165s will need replacing in the next 10/15 years too

 

[mewstone]

I would imagine that the potential issue with the Dawlish Warren to Teignmouth sea wall section will have been considered. The Cross Country Voyager trains are prohibited from this section when the waves are breaking over the sea wall, does anyone know if this is likely to be a problem with the Bi Mode IEPs?

 

[HSTEd]

The line has experienced massive commuter growth and will continue to do so, as many towns on the route are expected to expand significantly. As a minimum, Chiltern will need to run longer stock, and there aren't large numbers of spare Turbostars around to do this.

The 165s will need replacing in the next 10/15 years too

This is true, but currently Chiltern picks up significant commuter traffic from people who are actually close to WCML/GWML stations, most commutes start with a driving section.

Which means that significant traffic can be transferred to the Metropolitan Line, Tring (post HS2 allowing better commuter routings on the WCML) or even to Oxford if the electrification does eventually reach them.
The chiltern line hardly travels through the middle of nowhere.

 

[NotATrainspott]

I would imagine that the potential issue with the Dawlish Warren to Teignmouth sea wall section will have been considered. The Cross Country Voyager trains are prohibited from this section when the waves are breaking over the sea wall, does anyone know if this is likely to be a problem with the Bi Mode IEPs?

It was explicitly mentioned in the IEP contract that the trains had to be able to survive sea waves. Basically every major gripe the industry had about the Voyagers, including the toilet smell, was included in that contract.

 

[mewstone]

It was explicitly mentioned in the IEP contract that the trains had to be able to survive sea waves. Basically every major gripe the industry had about the Voyagers, including the toilet smell, was included in that contract.

Thanks for that, that's a relief, pardon the pun!

 

[Nippy]

Platform 13 at Paddington has now closed, in preparation for further remodelling at Paddington at Christmas.

 

[itfcfan]

Platform 13 at Paddington has now closed, in preparation for further remodelling at Paddington at Christmas.

I went past Paddington (on the H&C) line at 2pm this afternoon and the track in platform 14 was being taken up. Does this mean both platforms 13 & 14 are out of use until Christmas?

 

[Peter Sarf]

And just as I predicted, and was criticised for predicting, the bi-mode has killed the electrification programme.

Putting the cart before the horse I am afraid. Its not the get out of jail free card that is at fault. It is the hopelessly inept electrification process that is the crime. These IEPs/Bi-Modes would not be blamed for anything if the damn electrification had gone anywhere near as well as it should have. I do not like Bi-Modes by the way but, alas, that is our lot :cry:.

My fear is that we will have to wait another generation for any serious electrification to be done. The opportunity seems to come round roughly once every twenty five years. I only hope that by 2040 people will not recall how bad it went last time .

 

[Nippy]

I went past Paddington (on the H&C) line at 2pm this afternoon and the track in platform 14 was being taken up. Does this mean both platforms 13 & 14 are out of use until Christmas?

14 isn't closing. I hope the track is back in the morning as well!

 

[Envoy]

I wonder if provision has been made on the reliefs, for the proposed station at St.Mellons - between Cardiff & Newport? It would surely be crazy to put in the wires/ masts and then have to alter everything at a later date to accommodate the platforms.

 

[CardiffKid]

I wonder if provision has been made on the reliefs, for the proposed station at St.Mellons - between Cardiff & Newport? It would surely be crazy to put in the wires/ masts and then have to alter everything at a later date to accommodate the platforms.

I very much doubt it.

The WG of course also have 'plans' for a metro 'stop' at/by Newport Road: http://gov.wales/docs/det/publications/160224-potential-metro-map-image-en.gif I very much doubt that will have been planned for either

 

[Unclepete]

There have been two bits of "Positive" news in the last week about the GWR electrification

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_12_2016/post-6818-0-40369800-1480874096_thumb.png

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/art...ssrail-programme-switched-on-in-thames-valley

There has been a lot said on this thread recently about the deferred sections of the GWR electrification, my opinion is that the deferred sections will go ahead in CP6, for a start a lot has been done on the Chippenham to Bristol section, many bridges have been rebuilt and millions of pounds have been spent on the track lowering through Box Tunnel last summer.

As regards CP6, the outstanding work from CP5 will obviously swallow up a big part of it, that's if they choose to go down that path, no one is committing anything at the moment, let's see what happens next summer when it is announced.

Sorry about my poor grammar before I did the edit, I was half a sleep last night!

Sorry if I'm missing something here, but which part of the crossrail line has now been switched on?

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry if I'm missing something here, but which part of the crossrail line has now been switched on?

Only about a mile west of Airport Junction apparently. It is Crossrail sponsored work on the GW main and relief lines rather than the "Crossrail line" as such.

I read that it simply moves the boundary between live and dead sections to a more straightforward area of the route (i.e. away from all the flyovers and junctions) and is therefore arguable that its not a big enough stage in the overall process to justify the latest spin.

 

[QueensCurve]

ongratulations - bi-modes allow you to do just that with negligible additional infrastructure spend!
It is almost certain a third rail bi-mode will make an appearance at some point, after all it is far simpler than a 25kV one. We are even potentially getting a dual voltage electrodiesel in the D319 pretty soon.

The idea that 3rd rail is simpler or cheaper really seems impervious to reason in this forum.