Great Western Electrification Progress

[leomartin125]

It potentially allows for a decent length EMU service operated by GWR (perhaps 8 car 387/2s) as far as Maidenhead in Dec 2016 timetable.

(IIRC this was mentioned in discussions after a quote from a Rail magazine interview with Mark Hopwood.)

I doubt that any GWR 387's will be in service before mid 2017 at the earliest no matter what electrification progress is made. Especially if these Class 387's are due to be IPEMU's with battery power to work like the Class 800's and 802's. I reckon the first Electric GWR hauled service will be a Class 365 in May/June 2017, and I doubt anything will start running services before that.

 

[Domh245]

I doubt that any GWR 387's will be in service before mid 2017 at the earliest no matter what electrification progress is made. Especially if these Class 387's are due to be IPEMU's with battery power to work like the Class 800's and 802's. I reckon the first Electric GWR hauled service will be a Class 365 in May/June 2017, and I doubt anything will start running services before that.

They aren't planned to be IPEMUs. GWR might also want to try and start pushing for them to come online ASAP given the recent news that the HEx 332s are out of action "for the forseeable future"

 

[leomartin125]

They aren't planned to be IPEMUs. GWR might also want to try and start pushing for them to come online ASAP given the recent news that the HEx 332s are out of action "for the forseeable future"

That's more up to HEx and Network Rail than up to GWR, the trains will come online when the line is ready, simple as. And they won't introduce them when only half the line is ready.

 

[swt_passenger]

I doubt that any GWR 387's will be in service before mid 2017...

GWR is getting 10 x 387/1s by April 2016, ready to commence a stopping service to Hayes and Harlington from the start of the May timetable. The first services are already in online journey planners. Trials and training runs to take place during April.

Franchise agreement states:

29 Class 387 units (116 vehicles) are delivered in four distinct phases:
- 6 units by end of March 2016;
- 4 units by end of April 2016;
- 8 units by end of February 2017; and
- 11 units by end of March 2017

Especially if these Class 387's are due to be IPEMU's with battery power to work like the Class 800's and 802's.

The first batch of 29, already in service and coming from GTR, certainly aren't battery powered IPEMUs, and neither are the 800s or 802s. The latter are diesel or electric but that is not an IPEMU, it is a bi-mode.

 

[leomartin125]

Well, I didn't know the Class 378's were coming so quickly, especially with electrification very much still in progress in core areas of the route. They will be sitting around for a fair bit before entering service though with GWR, maybe the odd test train to Hayes & Harlington along existing lines but that's about it.

 

[hwl]

Well, I didn't know the Class 378's were coming so quickly, especially with electrification very much still in progress in core areas of the route. They will be sitting around for a fair bit before entering service though with GWR, maybe the odd test train to Hayes & Harlington along existing lines but that's about it.

As swt_passenger said regular Hayes & Harlington to Paddington stopping services from the May timetable change not just test trains...
Should be 8 car which should help.

 

[Steve14]

As swt_passenger said regular Hayes & Harlington to Paddington services from the May timetable change not just test trains...

Have you got a link for the new May timetable?

 

[D1009]

As swt_passenger said regular Hayes & Harlington to Paddington stopping services from the May timetable change not just test trains...
Should be 8 car which should help.

Are these additional to the existing Heathrow Connect and GWR stopping services?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If the Hayes & Harlington to Paddington are going to be regular passenger trains and a permanent fixture in the timetable, does that then make the HC services redundant?

 

[leomartin125]

If the Hayes & Harlington to Paddington are going to be regular passenger trains and a permanent fixture in the timetable, does that then make the HC services redundant?

Crossrail is what will replace Heathrow Connect services in the future, but the way HEx are going at the moment with their 332 issues, it looks like GWR will fill in with their new 387's to Hayes & Harlington

 

[abn444]

If the Hayes & Harlington to Paddington are going to be regular passenger trains and a permanent fixture in the timetable, does that then make the HC services redundant?

I could be wrong but I'm sure someone said either earlier in this thread or in another one that the Greenford trains will start terminating at West Ealing soon in preparation for Crossrail and these Hayes and Harlington trains will take the paths of the Greenford trains until Crossrail starts.

 

[Hophead]

I could be wrong but I'm sure someone said either earlier in this thread or in another one that the Greenford trains will start terminating at West Ealing soon in preparation for Crossrail and these Hayes and Harlington trains will take the paths of the Greenford trains until Crossrail starts.

That is, indeed, the case.

A quick check in Realtime Trains for West Ealing at 12:00 on 25th May shows the Greenford trains running to Paddington and no Hayes shuttle, but that can obviously be updated if needs be.

 

[oxoneil]

What I seem to recall he said was Maidenhead by early 2017, so a December start might be possible now, assuming they have a big enough pool of drivers trained on the 387s by then.

Ah GWR training some drivers, I wish

 

[hassaanhc]

As swt_passenger said regular Hayes & Harlington to Paddington stopping services from the May timetable change not just test trains...
Should be 8 car which should help.

Would 8 cars fit in the bay at Hayes & Harlington? I recall some work taking place on the bay platform when I last went there (a few months ago) so maybe it was being lengthened? Paddington would be awkward too as P11 and P12 appear to be only 6x23m or 7x20m long (because of where the points for P12 are) so one of P2-10 may have to be used. The other stations can use SDO7 (although I think Ealing Broadway is long enough for 8x20m, as I saw a full 2+8 HST stop there during disruption and only the last door was off the platform).

 

[D1009]

I'd hazard a guess that if the service is additional to the existing service, 8 cars wouldn't be needed anyway.

 

[coppercapped]

Would 8 cars fit in the bay at Hayes & Harlington? I recall some work taking place on the bay platform when I last went there (a few months ago) so maybe it was being lengthened? Paddington would be awkward too as P11 and P12 appear to be only 6x23m or 7x20m long (because of where the points for P12 are) so one of P2-10 may have to be used. The other stations can use SDO7 (although I think Ealing Broadway is long enough for 8x20m, as I saw a full 2+8 HST stop there during disruption and only the last door was off the platform).

These issues have been thought about. The Hayes bay is being lengthened. The May timetable for the Class 387s is the best fit with the facilities available at the moment.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, I didn't know the Class 378's were coming so quickly, especially with electrification very much still in progress in core areas of the route. They will be sitting around for a fair bit before entering service though with GWR, maybe the odd test train to Hayes & Harlington along existing lines but that's about it.

The section between Paddington and Hayes and Harlington is already electrified, and has been since 1998. HEx and Heathrow Connect both use it.

 

[swt_passenger]

Would 8 cars fit in the bay at Hayes & Harlington? I recall some work taking place on the bay platform when I last went there (a few months ago) so maybe it was being lengthened? Paddington would be awkward too as P11 and P12 appear to be only 6x23m or 7x20m long (because of where the points for P12 are) so one of P2-10 may have to be used. The other stations can use SDO7 (although I think Ealing Broadway is long enough for 8x20m, as I saw a full 2+8 HST stop there during disruption and only the last door was off the platform).

P12 and P13 are about to be combined into one long platform. It was all marked out with paint on the ballast and platforms a couple of weeks ago

 

[jimm]

Well, I didn't know the Class 378's were coming so quickly, especially with electrification very much still in progress in core areas of the route. They will be sitting around for a fair bit before entering service though with GWR, maybe the odd test train to Hayes & Harlington along existing lines but that's about it.

How about doing some research then? There are umpteen references to the arrival of the first GW 387s that a simple Google search will turn up.

And they won't be sitting around. Had you cared to read the post immediately above yours, GWR will have a grand total of 10 387s arriving at the end of this month and in April - with the next batch not due to arrive until February next year, though some of the eight brand-new ones GWR is getting might arrive from Derby in the meantime.

Allowing for service use on Paddington-Hayes & Harlington from May - perhaps even earlier if the Class 332s are still in trouble - driver and depot staff training and general maintenance needs, those 10 sets are likely to have plenty to do to keep them occupied from day one.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How long will it probably take to train each driver and guard on all they need to know about the 387s? Will they be maintained by Bombardier or will GWR's own engineers maintain them?

 

[jimm]

How long will it probably take to train each driver and guard on all they need to know about the 387s? Will they be maintained by Bombardier or will GWR's own engineers maintain them?

They will be maintained by GWR depot staff and work driver-only operation routes, so no guards to train, though other staff likely to travel on them will presumably need familiarisation and safety procedure training.

That is, indeed, the case.

A quick check in Realtime Trains for West Ealing at 12:00 on 25th May shows the Greenford trains running to Paddington and no Hayes shuttle, but that can obviously be updated if needs be.

Re the timing of the first GWR electric services, that is indeed slated to be Monday, May 16. You were searching at the wrong time of the day. The first 387 services will be in the morning and afternoon peaks only, with off-peak Greenford services continuing to serve Paddington for a little longer. See this Great Western Coffeeshop thread for the details of what services will be 387s

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16774.0

General PS: This thread is really meant to be about the infrastructure side of the GW project. There are already threads under rolling stock about the 387s generally or another called Great Western Railway future rolling stock. Maybe any more points on the GW 387s could go there.

 

[D1009]

General PS: This thread is really meant to be about the infrastructure side of the GW project. There are already threads under rolling stock about the 387s generally or another called Great Western Railway future rolling stock. Maybe any more points on the GW 387s could go there.

I agree we should try and keep the thread on topic. In theory any discussion of the infrastructure should be in this forum, any discussion of the rolling stock should be in the Traction forum, and any discussion of the timetable should be in the timetables forum, but when the subjects are so closely related, overlapping becomes almost inevitable.

 

[Tio Terry]

You understand wrong (If I understand correctly!). The GW IEPs are being fitted with GW ATP until the ETCS is fitted, which will be a way off yet.

Just about visible under the speedo

My understanding is that Enhanced TPWS is being fitted rather than the outdated and almost unserviceable GW ATP. Time will tell.

 

[Mintona]

The ATP is right there in the picture, so I'd say it's definitely fitted.

 

[jimm]

The ATP is right there in the picture, so I'd say it's definitely fitted.

Yes it is - as stated in the Hitachi Review in 2014

The Class 800/801 is fitted with the Train Protection and Warning System (TPWS) as a legacy signaling system and Automatic Warning System (AWS) widely used on UK trains, and the British Rail-Automatic Train Protection (BR-ATP) system used between Paddington and Bristol on the GWML. It also has an ETCS (Level 2), which is planned to be introduced in the UK.

http://www.hitachi.com/rev/pdf/2014/r2014_10_105.pdf

 

[Philip Phlopp]

The ATP is right there in the picture, so I'd say it's definitely fitted.

That's the DCA cab mock up (the side windows are the give away) but GW-ATP is fitted to 800001.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

They will be maintained by GWR depot taff

That's be a rarity on the railways, it seems like near enough all stock built since about 2000/2001 ish is maintained by the manufacturer

 

[D1009]

They will be maintained by GWR depot staff and work driver-only operation routes, so no guards to train, though other staff likely to travel on them will presumably need familiarisation and safety procedure training.

Where will the depot be though?

 

[swt_passenger]

Where will the depot be though?

Reading, if we are still considering the 387s and 365s. That'll be why it was fully wired from opening.

 

[po8crg]

How close are the first 800s / 801s to being in-service? Could they use some to cover for the 332s?

 

[Mintona]

Nowhere near.