Great Western Electrification Progress

[snowball]

It is actually two viaducts very close together so the central column would go down the gap between them. Which might actually be OK, similar to the arrangement often seen where the poles continue downwards to be fixed to the side of the viaduct in a couple of places.

Don't recall seeing any 4-track T-shaped structures anywhere though...

In that case you could have two separate twin-track cantilevers, one for each viaduct, looking like a T.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

In that case you could have two separate twin-track cantilevers, one for each viaduct, looking like a T.

There's not actually space in between the two viaducts - it's fitted with an inspection walk way for most of its length, and there are inspection spaces going into the viaducts which will restrict what can be fitted and where.

 

[trac]

I thought I had seen a document that included how they would electrify the viaduct but haven't been able to re-find it yet.

 

[snowball]

I once saw one in which it was discussed but I don't think it described the chosen solution.

 

[Class 170101]

Space is typically the one thing we don't have in abundance.

Even on the Broad Gauge Great Western?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Even on the Broad Gauge Great Western?

It's not broad gauge now - by the time new drainage, signalling troughs and bits of track have been moved around to suit the new standard switches and crossovers, the little bit of extra space quickly disappears, at least in the six foots.

 

[jimm]

The River Thames railway crossing at Maidenhead is a bridge, not a viaduct. It is described as a bridge on a series of original GWR drawings held by Network Rail's archive, including one dating from the widening of the main line, which at Maidenhead was actually achieved by widening the structure at either side, not by building a parallel matching bridge alongside, though that technique was used at Moulsford.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/VirtualArchive/maidenhead-bridge/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maide...idge_-_The_Sounding_Bridge_under_the_arch.jpg

 

[Philip Phlopp]

The River Thames railway crossing at Maidenhead is a bridge, not a viaduct. It is described as a bridge on a series of original GWR drawings held by Network Rail's archive, including one dating from the widening of the main line, which at Maidenhead was actually achieved by widening the structure at either side, not by building a parallel matching bridge alongside, though that technique was used at Moulsford.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/VirtualArchive/maidenhead-bridge/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maide...idge_-_The_Sounding_Bridge_under_the_arch.jpg

Different bridge - it's getting something bespoke too. It's a CrossRail issue and they've been a bit sluggish with their drawings and CGI stuff.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just got sent this

https://twitter.com/NoelDolphin/status/659324966773653504

 

[Henbury Loop]

[emoji2]

 

[Class 170101]

It's not broad gauge now - by the time new drainage, signalling troughs and bits of track have been moved around to suit the new standard switches and crossovers, the little bit of extra space quickly disappears, at least in the six foots.

Fair enough

 

[59CosG95]

Gantries now up around Slough: first one in the station vicinity piled in last night.

 

[furnessvale]

Even on the Broad Gauge Great Western?

Isn't the "Broad Gauge" idea a bit of a myth?

Certainly the track gauge was wide at 7' 01/4" but was the loading gauge any larger? Wasn't Brunel's big idea to sling boilers, passengers et al between the wheels for stability?

Even now the GWML is not passed for 9' 6" high containers on standard flats whereas fairly minimal work cleared the "narrow" gauge WCML for them.

 

[jimm]

Isn't the "Broad Gauge" idea a bit of a myth?

Certainly the track gauge was wide at 7' 01/4" but was the loading gauge any larger? Wasn't Brunel's big idea to sling boilers, passengers et al between the wheels for stability?

Even now the GWML is not passed for 9' 6" high containers on standard flats whereas fairly minimal work cleared the "narrow" gauge WCML for them.

Not a myth in terms of breadth of the trackbed, no. The lateral clearances on ex-GWR routes are generally better than on routes built for standard gauge, but not the vertical clearances, as Brunel's vision did not extend to extra height stock, with his concern, as you say, being more about fast, stable running.

And 9ft 6in containers on standard flats have been permitted between Reading and Didcot since 2011 thanks to the project to improve clearances between Southampton and the West Midlands.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Gantries now up around Slough: first one in the station vicinity piled in last night.

Now that is good news.

 

[Henbury Loop]

I noticed the Severn Tunnel was closed on Sunday, did this have anything to do with the electrification?

I intended to go down Pilning and take a look at the works depot but didn't have any time.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I noticed the Severn Tunnel was closed on Sunday, did this have anything to do with the electrification?

I intended to go down Pilning and take a look at the works depot but didn't have any time.

Yes and no - not actually electrification works. There's preparatory works and a change in maintenance regime for the Severn Tunnel which will go along with it.

It's going over from a 'piecemeal' and reactionary maintenance regime to a more balanced maintenance regime, which will see rail replacement and ballast cleaning every 5 years (i.e once per Control Period).

 

[snowball]

There's this about it on the NR website:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2015/oct/modernisation-railway-South-Wales/

 

[The Planner]

It's going over from a 'piecemeal' and reactionary maintenance regime to a more balanced maintenance regime, which will see rail replacement and ballast cleaning every 5 years (i.e once per Control Period).

Blimey, that is a bit radical isn't it? actually maintaining the asset instead of fixing it?

 

[83G/84D]

I must strees this is only one of many rumours however it is possible I suppose. Or is it?

With a delay to electrification and / or entry into service of the Hitachi trains the GWR HST's to be displaced will still go to Scotland as per the agreed timescale to be replaced by Virgin East Coast HST's.

Latest talk from more than one member of GWR staff!!

 

[swt_passenger]

I must strees this is only one of many rumours however it is possible I suppose. Or is it?

With a delay to electrification and / or entry into service of the Hitachi trains the GWR HST's to be displaced will still go to Scotland as per the agreed timescale to be replaced by Virgin East Coast HST's.

Latest talk from more than one member of GWR staff!!

There's no need to delay the SETs as long as they are bi-modes. That's been the general idea for some months hasn't it, since DfT apparently asked Hitachi to deliver the bi-modes first?

 

[83G/84D]

There's no need to delay the SETs as long as they are bi-modes. That's been the general idea for some months hasn't it, since DfT apparently asked Hitachi to deliver the bi-modes first?

The bi-modes would operate to Bristol & South Wales whilst the HST's would do WoE services? Where are the 180's going if anywhere?

 

[swt_passenger]

Where are the 180's going if anyhere?

The 180s are going on lease with GC from Dec 2016, but are being sub leased back until their SET replacements become available. The GW direct award brief has the first 180 leaving in June 2017.

GC put this intention in the public domain ages ago now, (by virtue of a track access application), but the GW franchise spec also subsequently confirmed it.

 

[Class 170101]

There's no need to delay the SETs as long as they are bi-modes. That's been the general idea for some months hasn't it, since DfT apparently asked Hitachi to deliver the bi-modes first?

How many HSTs do Scotrail require?

Would there be enough HSTs remaining at FGW, along with the SET Bi-modes to run the existing timetable never mind the future timetable as suggested by the Direct Award. Hence the EC HSTs stepping into the breach?

 

[swt_passenger]

How many HSTs do Scotrail require?

Would there be enough HSTs remaining at FGW, along with the SET Bi-modes to run the existing timetable never mind the future timetable as suggested by the Direct Award. Hence the EC HSTs stepping into the breach?

I think this is getting a bit off topic, but there are detailed programmes in both the GW and Scotrail franchise agreements showing the dates and comparative numbers. There are 36 GW bi-modes that are delivered first between May 17 and Feb 18, basically at one unit per week. This can be independent of electrification as they don't require the wires over the full route, just for testing. It is 18 months before they need enough wiring up to test them, and it is pretty clear that will be achievable e.g. from Reading to Didcot.

Scotrail are not down to receive any of their 24 HSTs until June 2018. So it looks to me like the GW bi-modes are delivered in plenty of time to release enough HSTs to Scotrail, allowing for almost a year per HST for the upgrade work needed.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Since it's being reported elsewhere

Don Heath in as a consultant on the GWML electrification, bringing his ECML experience of electrification and hundred mile work sites.

Chris Green in as a consultant on the introduction of IEP to the GWML and possibly ECML.

Don't know how much this is a Peter Hendy idea, or indeed if he was involved in cajoling the two managers out of their well earned semi-retirements.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Since it's being reported elsewhere

Don Heath in as a consultant on the GWML electrification, bringing his ECML experience of electrification and hundred mile work sites.

Chris Green in as a consultant on the introduction of IEP to the GWML and possibly ECML.

Don't know how much this is a Peter Hendy idea, or indeed if he was involved in cajoling the two managers out of their well earned semi-retirements.

I confess I do not know much about Don Heath though I will Google him later. Chris Green does of course need no introduction. I remember him in the mid-late 80s in charge of Network South East. Sounds like good moves

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I confess I do not know much about Don Heath though I will Google him later. Chris Green does of course need no introduction. I remember him in the mid-late 80s in charge of Network South East. Sounds like good moves

Chris Green ran InterCity 1992-95 and Virgin Trains 1999-2005.
He was just too late to be in charge of the introduction of IC225 on the newly electrified ECML, but he did introduce Pendolinos on the WCML in the midst of the route upgrade trauma.
I should think the prospect of some kind of "stunt" with the IEPs has gone up several notches with his appointment!
He was very keen on record runs and the like.
We knew about GW electrification problems, but nobody has suggested issues with the IEP programme yet.
Maybe it's about the reconfiguration/reallocation of the fleet because of the electrification delays.

Don Heath is much admired in Roger Ford's articles on ECML electrification.
The trouble is electrification design and roll-out has changed a lot since the ECML was wired, not least in work practices and H&S.

 

[The Planner]

Experience over new school positivity, process and meetings? Wonders never cease!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Don Heath is much admired in Roger Ford's articles on ECML electrification.
The trouble is electrification design and roll-out has changed a lot since the ECML was wired, not least in work practices and H&S.

He strikes me as the sort of person who people will listen to, naturally, and who, thanks to both his reputation, experience and semi-retired status, can tell the right people to shut up, encourage others to speak up, and get things done without worrying about his promotion prospects in 5 and 10 years.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

He strikes me as the sort of person who people will listen to, naturally, and who, thanks to both his reputation, experience and semi-retired status, can tell the right people to shut up, encourage others to speak up, and get things done without worrying about his promotion prospects in 5 and 10 years.

10/10 - just read up about him - but your summary is perfect.