Great Western Electrification Progress

[LNW-GW Joint]

You're right, what I had meant to write was The Railway Magazine,

I haven't bought RM since it started to pretend that the heritage railway was the real one, in about 1970...

 

[Mordac]

No, Mordac has since corrected his original post. LNW-GW's quote was accurate at the time, before Mordac's edit.

Correct, but thanks anyway Howard
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I haven't bought RM since it started to pretend that the heritage railway was the real one, in about 1970...

Oh dear, I think I should probably just drop it then, it very rarely has anything that interests me and isn't found anywhere else.

 

[allaction]

Tonight's edition of BBC Wales Today has a report on the installation of electric cables (might not have got the terminology correct - sorry) on the roof of the Severn Tunnel. The programme was broadcast at 1830 on Wednesday 20 July, and the item is about 19 minutes in. It should be on the BBC iPlayer from a few hours or so after transmission, and will be available for 24 hours only.

 

[HowardGWR]

Well that was very entertaining (not)! It goes to show how misunderstandings can arise. I thought I was seeing strange things and indeed I was. By the way, I don't want to denigrate RAIL as I used to take it. I found that I preferred a monthly to a weekly for more measured analysis and comment. I have tried the online Railway Herald but that is just way too steamy for me.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Tonight's edition of BBC Wales Today has a report on the installation of electric cables (might not have got the terminology correct - sorry) on the roof of the Severn Tunnel. The programme was broadcast at 1830 on Wednesday 20 July, and the item is about 19 minutes in. It should be on the BBC iPlayer from a few hours or so after transmission, and will be available for 24 hours only.

Unfortunately I can not get that in the USA. Please (sorry for my ignorance) and I am sure it is posted somewhere - is the bit through the Severn Tunnel going to be Auto-Transformer ? If so could these cables be the AT wires at pi radians out of phase - i.e. minus 25K volts?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Tonight's edition of BBC Wales Today has a report on the installation of electric cables (might not have got the terminology correct - sorry) on the roof of the Severn Tunnel. The programme was broadcast at 1830 on Wednesday 20 July, and the item is about 19 minutes in. It should be on the BBC iPlayer from a few hours or so after transmission, and will be available for 24 hours only.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-36837623

Don't know if that covers the whole clip

 

[HowardGWR]

What I did note from the MR article on tunnels is that Rhodri Morgan mentions 'other tunnels' but does not mention the East of Bristol ones (OK he is Welsh ). I just wonder what is their height above rail. The 'St Annes' tunnel (was Bristol No 2) is huge, but I am not sure about the very long Foxes Wood Tunnel (No 3).

Edit: He's Rhodri Clark, got my Welsh names mixed up, whoops.

 

[allaction]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-36837623

Don't know if that covers the whole clip

It's some of the component parts. The item in the programme runs 3 - 4 minutes.

 

[Class 170101]

Press release

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2016/jul/first-electric-train-runs-Great-Western-Main-Line/



Includes video clip with pantographs visibly up.

Noticed that the pantographs were at the furtherest point possible apart in that video. Will there be a test with the trains turned the other way and the pantographs both close to the middle of the train?

 

[NotATrainspott]

Noticed that the pantographs were at the furtherest point possible apart in that video. Will there be a test with the trains turned the other way and the pantographs both close to the middle of the train?

As every 80x driving vehicle is fitted with a pantograph, there's no need to turn anything around. The more distance between the pantographs, the better, but I'm sure they'll test all the various failure modes.

 

[Domh245]

Noticed that the pantographs were at the furtherest point possible apart in that video. Will there be a test with the trains turned the other way and the pantographs both close to the middle of the train?

The trains have pantographs at both ends, so I think that regardless of orientation, they'll always be the furthest apart that they can, as it gives the oscillation of the contact wire longer to die down, and thus means better contact. Only if one of the pantographs had failed would it be operated any other way, and at that point, you probably wouldn't be going at full whack.

 

[59CosG95]

The trains have pantographs at both ends, so I think that regardless of orientation, they'll always be the furthest apart that they can, as it gives the oscillation of the contact wire longer to die down, and thus means better contact. Only if one of the pantographs had failed would it be operated any other way, and at that point, you probably wouldn't be going at full whack.

With the *slight* possibility of electric freight on the GWML to consider too, what's the situation with, say, 2 86s with pans right next to each other?

 

[Domh245]

With the *slight* possibility of electric freight on the GWML to consider too, what's the situation with, say, 2 86s with pans right next to each other?

Oscillations at 75mph aren't quite as severe as those at 140mph, I'd have thought.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

The trains have pantographs at both ends, so I think that regardless of orientation, they'll always be the furthest apart that they can, as it gives the oscillation of the contact wire longer to die down, and thus means better contact. Only if one of the pantographs had failed would it be operated any other way, and at that point, you probably wouldn't be going at full whack.

TTS TS261 applies.

 

[GazK]

All the possible pan configurations on IEP have been tested at speed with series 1 OLE.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[Domh245]

TTS TS261 applies.

Quoting what I think is the relevant part then:

The IEP Trains must have a maximum service speed of at least 125mph and shall be able to
achieve that speed on the whole of the IEP Network. The requirement to be able to operate
at 125mph applies during operation in Standard Mode and Locomotive Hauled Mode.
It is accepted that 125mph may not be achieved under the following circumstances:

*snip*

where, in the event of failure of the IEP Train, it is not possible to raise two
pantographs at the maximum pantograph spacing permitted by the train formation. In this event, subject to the other provisos of this provision, at least 100mph must be achieved if the pantograph spacing is 75m or greater and no less than 80mph shall be achieved for lesser spacings; and

in the event that it is not possible to show compatibility between the pantograph and the infrastructure, when an IEP Train is operating with two pantographs raised, on any portion of the Great Western Main Line between Paddington and Airport Junction where the line speed is greater than 100mph. In this event, the IEP Train shall be capable of 100mph or the speed at which operation is shown to be compatible with the overhead line, whichever is greater.

Odd that there is that part specifically about Paddington to Airport Junction. Is the OLE there worse than the ECML? I also assume that once the headspan replacement scheme is finished, it'd no longer apply?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Oscillations at 75mph aren't quite as severe as those at 140mph, I'd have thought.

No. Double headed freight elsewhere manages quite nicely on a mixed of fairly elderly and fairly crap BR era kit. It'll manage on Series 1 easily.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Quoting what I think is the relevant part then:



Odd that there is that part specifically about Paddington to Airport Junction. Is the OLE there worse than the ECML? I also assume that once the headspan replacement scheme is finished, it'd no longer apply?

Mark 3 isn't being eliminated, just headspans and some other bits and bobs of reliability enhancement being undertaken. The new Stockley flyover is Mark 3 equipped and there's new (albeit mechanically independent) Mark 3 around Southall.

 

[superalbs]

Seems Network Rail decided to use my Train Simulator reskin in one of their route presentations.

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/753658910498820097/

 

[Harbornite]

Nice one!

 

[Hellzapoppin]

What I did note from the MR article on tunnels is that Rhodri Morgan mentions 'other tunnels' but does not mention the East of Bristol ones (OK he is Welsh ). I just wonder what is their height above rail. The 'St Annes' tunnel (was Bristol No 2) is huge, but I am not sure about the very long Foxes Wood Tunnel (No 3).

Howard, I mentioned Foxes Wood tunnel to one of my colleagues in the construction team and it seems that there isn't an issue with the height in there. I know Patchway down tunnel will have the track lowered at the Bristol portal but im not sure about the up tunnel.

 

[HowardGWR]

Howard, I mentioned Foxes Wood tunnel to one of my colleagues in the construction team and it seems that there isn't an issue with the height in there. I know Patchway down tunnel will have the track lowered at the Bristol portal but im not sure about the up tunnel.

That is extremely helpful and good to know we have readers 'on the inside', thanks.

I had assumed that Foxes Wood would be as cavernous as St Annes. The old J C Bourne drawings seemed to indicate that, but Bourne always drew everything a bit on the awesome side.

Of course down Patchway tunnel (Bristol and South Wales Union) was built long before the up tunnel so they could be at different heights inside. I have actually walked the down tunnel from one end to the other, taking refuge in the cubby holes when an express passed (terrifying if it is your first time). My PW Inspector chaperone shewed me how to put up your right foot behind you, a bit like a stork, so that you didn't get filthy from the walls. It was not long after the end of steam.

 

[duesselmartin]

Hi all. I am from Germany and just travelled Düsseldorf to Oxford by rail. It seems electrfication equipment looks very heavy, esp compared to HS1. Why is that? And will Didcot to Oxford ( or beyond ) be also electrified?. Thank you. Martin

 

[absolutelymilk]

Hi all. I am from Germany and just travelled Düsseldorf to Oxford by rail. It seems electrfication equipment looks very heavy, esp compared to HS1. Why is that? And will Didcot to Oxford ( or beyond ) be also electrified?. Thank you. Martin

The electrification equipment is built the way it is because it has to cover a four track railway, whereas HS1 is only two track. So the portals on the GWML which hold up the wires have to stretch across much further than the headspans on HS1 and so must be more heavy duty.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The electrification equipment is built the way it is because it has to cover a four track railway, whereas HS1 is only two track. So the portals on the GWML which hold up the wires have to stretch across much further than the headspans on HS1 and so must be more heavy duty.

They are also built to never ever fall down. Ever. They will be what is left after the nuclear bombs finish falling.

Didcot to Oxford is due to for electrification yes. As is up towards Coventry and Birmingham from Oxford and also Didcot to Bristol/Cardiff.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Roger Ford has another piece in Modern Railways (August) on the GW electrification project.
It's clear that the project was committed without a real handle on the design of either Series 1 OHLE, or the HOPS train, or the GW route conditions.
The ORR refused to allow HOPS to operate with trains working on the adjacent track, which required large safety modifications and reduced performance.
You can easily see how these issues multiplied up resulting in low productivity.
The intention is to gradually improve the design and productivity as the project progresses.

A good detailed piece on the Severn Tunnel and other tunnels too, by Rhodri Clark.
To answer a question upthread, the AT feed will go through the tunnel, strung from roof supports.
The conductor rail system will also be fitted to Box, Chipping Sodbury and Patchway tunnels (also Crossrail tunnels).
No final decision has been taken on wiring the relief lines west of Severn Tunnel Jn, but design is based on them being wired (they have already been excluded and reinstated once).

 

[fgwrich]

Seems Network Rail decided to use my Train Simulator reskin in one of their route presentations.

https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/753658910498820097/

Nice one. During the Reading Remodeling, it was rather nice to see some of my Open BVE work creeping in and being used for training!

 

[Envoy]

Roger Ford has another piece in Modern Railways (August).
No final decision has been taken on wiring the relief lines west of Severn Tunnel Jn, but design is based on them being wired (they have already been excluded and reinstated once).

I am surprised that no decision has been taken on wiring the relief’s west of STJ. Surely, it would be more economical in the long run to do the route with the 4 track headspans like we see in the Thames Valley? Besides, I thought that these lines were going to be used by local stoppers as part of the South East Wales Metro with a new station at St.Mellons - including a large car park - so that people from east Cardiff could get to Newport for long distance services to England rather than have to go the wrong way into central Cardiff.

I also would have thought that freight on the GWML would have been electrified.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I am surprised that no decision has been taken on wiring the relief’s west of STJ. Surely, it would be more economical in the long run to do the route with the 4 track headspans like we see in the Thames Valley? Besides, I thought that these lines were going to be used by local stoppers as part of the South East Wales Metro with a new station at St.Mellons - including a large car park - so that people from east Cardiff could get to Newport for long distance services to England rather than have to go the wrong way into central Cardiff.
I also would have thought that freight on the GWML would have been electrified.

I think the problem is that the relief lines themselves (60mph or less) would need upgrading for regular passenger use, which is not in the plan.
Also only 2tph electric trains (IEPs) will run west of Filton, with no regional services converting, and very little freight with electric potential.
WG plans are in disarray too, with no firm plans for the main line.
I think we will get 4-track portals (it would be hard to limit them to 2 tracks), but wiring the 2nd pair of tracks has a poor business case.
I should think the 4 tracks Maindee Jn-Ebbw Jn will be wired, for flexibility through Newport, and similarly either side of Cardiff.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I think the problem is that the relief lines themselves (60mph or less) would need upgrading for regular passenger use, which is not in the plan.
Also only 2tph electric trains (IEPs) will run west of Filton, with no regional services converting, and very little freight with electric potential.
WG plans are in disarray too, with no firm plans for the main line.
I think we will get 4-track portals (it would be hard to limit them to 2 tracks), but wiring the 2nd pair of tracks has a poor business case.
I should think the 4 tracks Maindee Jn-Ebbw Jn will be wired, for flexibility through Newport, and similarly either side of Cardiff.

Severn Tunnel Junction to Cardiff relief line upgrades are in the Welsh RUS for funders, the preferred output is to match the relief lines to the main lines in terms of capability, so that's 95mph for HST and 75mph for all other stock.

The signalling delivers 100mph capability on all four tracks but the track itself isn't capable and upgrading to that doesn't provide a significant financial benefit.

The partial electrification of the route into Cardiff would be annoying but no worse than the partial electrification of the route into Birmingham on the Cross City Line, with Kings Norton as a prime example.

There's really very little electric stock which would use the relief lines, given you're mainly looking at services such as Cardiff to Manchester, Cardiff to Portsmouth Harbour and Cardiff to Penzance services, which will all be in the hands of diesel stock for the foreseeable future (as you've said, I've just noticed).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's really very little electric stock which would use the relief lines, given you're mainly looking at services such as Cardiff to Manchester, Cardiff to Portsmouth Harbour and Cardiff to Penzance services, which will all be in the hands of diesel stock for the foreseeable future (as you've said, I've just noticed).

Indeed, basically it goes in the pot for CP6 and will have to compete with everything else when the time comes.
Actually I don't like the position on Bristol-Cardiff staying diesel.
A frequent inter-urban (Bath-) Bristol-Cardiff-Swansea EMU service is just what the region needs and the railway can deliver.
But we seem wedded to through DMU workings from Cardiff which relatively few people use as such at the Bristol end.
Part of this is the turf war between GW and W&B franchises, and DfT/WG control.