Great Western Electrification Progress

[Class 33]

When Bristol TM gets wired, will they remove the overhead bridge that was used for loading the TPO trains?

That bridge was taken down months ago.

 

[Class 170101]

When Bristol TM gets wired, will they remove the overhead bridge that was used for loading the TPO trains?

I believe it has to make way for wires.

 

[fgwrich]

I believe it has to make way for wires.

That bridge was taken down months ago.

Indeed as Class 33 has posted - It has now been removed already and the area where it was is now being tidied up. It does look a little odd - but makes the station look a little cleaner now.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

That bridge was taken down months ago.

Main span craned out on Christmas Day 2014.

 

[HowardGWR]

Main span craned out on Christmas Day 2014.

Here is the link to the video.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/great-western-route-modernisation/city-of-bristol/

 

[Radedamer]

I will say, I find the heritage stuff comical - Bristol TM is important because Brunel was responsible for a lot of it - but knowing something of the man he was, he would be berating the DfT today for having taken about 50 years too long to electrify the route. There's no doubt he would be doing it with something not unlike the Series 1 OLE, though I'd guess he would be using 15kV, 16.7Hz and causing us all a huge headache to change it later.

+1

Oh, the silly software won't let me say just "+1".

 

[HowardGWR]

When the lines in TM are electrified, what's the plan for the Westons? Will a five car bi-mode from WSM couple up to another 5 car bi-mode in platform 3 (the main one) and then on via Bath, or will it happen on platform 13/15? That side of the station is to become more convenient, perhaps for many, when they open an entrance where the present Royal Mail ruin is to be demolished.

 

[swt_passenger]

When the lines in TM are electrified, what's the plan for the Westons? Will a five car bi-mode from WSM couple up to another 5 car bi-mode in platform 3 (the main one) and then on via Bath, or will it happen on platform 13/15? That side of the station is to become more convenient, perhaps for many, when they open an entrance where the present Royal Mail ruin is to be demolished.

The draft timetable spreadsheet DfT produced a few years back had the ex-Westons travelling via Bristol Parkway, almost all are 5 car. There's a 10 car from Taunton via Weston, and then the odd one or two are 5 from Weston or Taunton and increased to 10 from Temple Meads. The Weston departures form 50% of the off-peak Bristol to Paddington trains via Parkway, from about 1030 onwards

I doubt station operations have been defined in anything publicly available.

 

[HowardGWR]

The draft timetable spreadsheet DfT produced a few years back had the ex-Westons travelling via Bristol Parkway, almost all are 5 car. There's a 10 car from Taunton via Weston, and then the odd one or two are 5 from Weston or Taunton and increased to 10 from Temple Meads. The Weston departures form 50% of the off-peak Bristol to Paddington trains via Parkway, from about 1030 onwards

I doubt station operations have been defined in anything publicly available.

Thanks,this seems the wrong way around to me.

 

[gwr4090]

Very little has been published about Network Rail's revised plans for Great Western electrification. But according to Paul Clifton (BBC South Today and Rail), the priority now is electrif9cation via Swindon and Bristol Parkway to Cardiff. Work in the Bristol Temple Meads area both via Filton Abbey Wood and via Bath has been put back, maybe due to the amount of trackwork and resignalling work to be carried out ? Electrification of Didcot to Oxford will not now be completed until 2020 (after Oxford station re development maybe ?) - a delay of FOUR years. Reading to Basingstoke will also now be postponed to 2020. There will presumably be quite a few EMUs standing idle for some time ? Can anyone provide any further detail ?

David

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

We need the new Network Rail plan and milestones.
Must be imminent (well, before Christmas).
I'm sure what has been reported is right, it's what is unfolding on the ground.
Resignalling seems to be the main reason for the delays.
This will soon be completed Paddington-Cardiff, while the Bristol and Oxford areas are barely started.
The only route not mentioned in the Rail article is Reading-Newbury.
With resignalling already completed there, it might move up in the wiring priority.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

We need the new Network Rail plan and milestones.
Must be imminent (well, before Christmas).
I'm sure what has been reported is right, it's what is unfolding on the ground.
Resignalling seems to be the main reason for the delays.
This will soon be completed Paddington-Cardiff, while the Bristol and Oxford areas are barely started.
The only route not mentioned in the Rail article is Reading-Newbury.
With resignalling already completed there, it might move up in the wiring priority.

There's unsurprisingly an enormous reluctance to touch any sections of track where the precise location of signal wiring is unknown OR where the signalling wires are judged to be at or near 'life expired' status as piling can cause failures in the wiring, even if they're troughed.

 

[snowball]

There's unsurprisingly an enormous reluctance to touch any sections of track where the precise location of signal wiring is unknown OR where the signalling wires are judged to be at or near 'life expired' status as piling can cause failures in the wiring, even if they're troughed.

They'll have to touch those sections sooner or later!

 

[deltic08]

The draft timetable spreadsheet DfT produced a few years back had the ex-Westons travelling via Bristol Parkway, almost all are 5 car. There's a 10 car from Taunton via Weston, and then the odd one or two are 5 from Weston or Taunton and increased to 10 from Temple Meads. The Weston departures form 50% of the off-peak Bristol to Paddington trains via Parkway, from about 1030 onwards

I doubt station operations have been defined in anything publicly available.

I can't believe the "Trans Pennine Syndrome" is being perpetuated on the GWML. Who in their right minds is considering running 5-car trains from Bristol all the way to London especially between Reading and Paddington where spare paths are becoming more and more difficult to find. Isn't that the reason for new 110mph 387 electric units out of Paddington so they fit in between the expresses on the Up and Down fast lines?

Are we to assume that traffic will decline after HST withdrawal by two carriages per service and all trains to Bristol will have to be bi mode until the wires reach post 2020?

I hope that consideration has been given to coupling/uncoupling two 5-car sets on the extreme curving platforms at Temple Meads. That would kill plans if the curvature is too excessive for safe operation of the couplings.

 

[Noddy]

I can't believe the "Trans Pennine Syndrome" is being perpetuated on the GWML. Who in their right minds is considering running 5-car trains from Bristol all the way to London especially between Reading and Paddington where spare paths are becoming more and more difficult to find. Isn't that the reason for new 110mph 387 electric units out of Paddington so they fit in between the expresses on the Up and Down fast lines?

Are we to assume that traffic will decline after HST withdrawal by two carriages per service and all trains to Bristol will have to be bi mode until the wires reach post 2020?

I hope that consideration has been given to coupling/uncoupling two 5-car sets on the extreme curving platforms at Temple Meads. That would kill plans if the curvature is too excessive for safe operation of the couplings.

Except the service interval is being increased. For example on the Cheltenham route (which also calls at Reading) 7/8 cars per 2hrs are being replaced with at least 10 per 2hrs, and if they double any services up it will be even higher.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

They'll have to touch those sections sooner or later!

Yes, after replacement signalling cables are installed or more work is undertaken to find cables.

 

[AM9]

... Isn't that the reason for new 110mph 387 electric units out of Paddington so they fit in between the expresses on the Up and Down fast lines?

Not really. The 387s are just the current Electrostar build that has an improved setup for 110mph running. They were going spare from Thameslink so they were made availble for GWR. The 387/2s on the Gatwick Express programme are also 110mph but there isn't a single stretch of track on their routes that allows them to go faster than 100mph.

 

[LexyBoy]

I can't believe the "Trans Pennine Syndrome" is being perpetuated on the GWML.

I share your concerns (aka Voyager Syndrome), but I believe it has been better planned than these cases. Unlike those schemes, the number of seats is being significantly increased with IEP alone (leaving aside the extra fast EMU services mopping up Swindon/Oxford/Reading traffic). I’d agree that it probably won’t be long before more carriages are required, with the increased demand from improved service plus the national rise in rail passenger numbers. Probably just after regulations have been changed / jigs scrapped / dog ate the plans for the trains.

Are we to assume that traffic will decline after HST withdrawal by two carriages per service and all trains to Bristol will have to be bi mode until the wires reach post 2020?

Bristol (as planned) will have 28 carriages per hour, compared to 16 currently. The 5-car trains will not replace the current trains but augment them – they will be replaced by 9-car 800s. As for bimode, I think it depends how much further electrification slips. If it were to be bimode, it would be a case of converting the originally electric-only 800s, not simply making do with the 5-car 801s.

I hope that consideration has been given to coupling/uncoupling two 5-car sets on the extreme curving platforms at Temple Meads. That would kill plans if the curvature is too excessive for safe operation of the couplings.

I daresay it may have crossed someone's mind.

Except the service interval is being increased. For example on the Cheltenham route (which also calls at Reading) 7/8 cars per 2hrs are being replaced with at least 10 per 2hrs, and if they double any services up it will be even higher.

Indeed - in the draft I've seen it's an hourly 5 car off-peak, and hourly 2x5 car during the peaks (currently hourly HST).

 

[swt_passenger]

I can't believe the "Trans Pennine Syndrome" is being perpetuated on the GWML. Who in their right minds is considering running 5-car trains from Bristol all the way to London especially between Reading and Paddington...

These are the non stop pair via Parkway, there are also the 2 tph via Bath that pick up most other intermediate stops.

It was only a DfT draft anyway, and I was responding to the earlier proposition that trains from Weston would probably run via Bath. If you want to kick
start yet another discussion of the overall IEP timetable and train lengths then please ask yourself if we really need yet another rehash of the same old points?

 

[HowardGWR]

These are the non stop pair via Parkway, there are also the 2 tph via Bath that pick up most other intermediate stops.

It was only a DfT draft anyway, and I was responding to the earlier proposition that trains from Weston would probably run via Bath. If you want to kick
start yet another discussion of the overall IEP timetable and train lengths then please ask yourself if we really need yet another rehash of the same old points?

If @Deltic08 wants to discuss the matter further, I'm happy. My query was that the Bath route is on the east side of the station, giving a straight run out to Bath via N.Som. Jcn, whereas the terminus side is on the north west side that gives a straight run up Filton Bank, thus avoiding conflicting movements.

Thus one might have supposed that the Bristol to London via Badminton trains would start and finish in the Old Station* and the through Westons to start from platform 13. They would combine the two 5 car bits at TM. Running long trains (think back to The Merchant Venturer) to Weston was always wasteful.

A question to @SWT. Do you still have that link to the last DfT-proposed timetable please (even if it was a long time ago)?

*Old Station* is really the best term for the Midland / Brunel combined terminus, because Digby Wyatt had nothing to do with the Brunel terminus, although now I think of it, it would be good to have a new term for it, once it is done up.

 

[jimm]

Are we to assume that traffic will decline after HST withdrawal by two carriages per service and all trains to Bristol will have to be bi mode until the wires reach post 2020?

The wires will be at Bristol by 2019, if not sooner, given that it will presumably be the next key target once Paddington-Reading-Didcot is completed. The only major GW project work being pushed back into 2020 is Cardiff-Swansea and Reading-Basingstoke.

 

[swt_passenger]

A question to @SWT. Do you still have that link to the last DfT-proposed timetable please (even if it was a long time ago)?

I had kept a downloaded copy, a direct link to the online version has proved elusive so far, but it was provided as an attachment in one of the previous threads here in the forums:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118656

 

[HowardGWR]

I had kept a downloaded copy, a direct link to the online version has proved elusive so far, but it was provided as an attachment in one of the previous threads here in the forums:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118656

Many thanks (saved this time). With regard to my earlier points, it seems as though, at least under these exploratory timetables, the Weston line pax are proposed to be given a fast non-stop run from Parkway to Pad, once per hour of the two fast trains per hour (and that seems sensible). However, if those pax wish to access Heathrow, they will have to change at TM (not so sensible with cases) because that service will not stop at Reading. They also have to change for the other intermediate stations on the Bath route. By the way, not stopping at Reading will be welcomed by long distance pax from Bristol and west of Bristol to Pad, but not those from Bath or Chippenham who will continue to suffer Reading commuter overcrowding, possibly.

The main thing is that one would envisage the Westons calling at TM platform 3, say, up, and perhaps 15 (?) down, which puts the up service on the right side of the station for the fast run via Parkway, but leaves the down train having to cross the whole throat, unless it called, say, at platform 10. I confess I have to consult the station map for these numbers, as I am time-warped in 1957. I assume gWr would have provided DfT with the traffic patterns to inform these choices.

 

[Hophead]

... The 387/2s on the Gatwick Express programme are also 110mph but there isn't a single stretch of track on their routes that allows them to go faster than 100mph.

Or even 90mph (pretty sure those 2 minor 100mph sections either side of Three Bridges are no longer available, not that it would have been easy to get to that speed in any case).

 

[deltic08]

The wires will be at Bristol by 2019, if not sooner, given that it will presumably be the next key target once Paddington-Reading-Didcot is completed. The only major GW project work being pushed back into 2020 is Cardiff-Swansea and Reading-Basingstoke.

Will bi-modes have to be used from Didcot to Bristol then on diesel and if so via which route and will this be the first electrified route to Bristol?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Will bi-modes have to be used from Didcot to Bristol then on diesel and if so via which route and will this be the first electrified route to Bristol?

If they introduce IEPs on the current timetable it's likely they will run via Chippenham with wires as far as Didcot or possibly Swindon.
But at that stage the route into Bristol doesn't matter.
I think the expectation now is that wiring the Badminton route to Bristol Parkway will follow, at which point they can claim to have "reached Bristol".
Being able to reach the IEP depot at Filton under electric power is also an important milestone.
With Swindon resignalling soon to be completed, wires could also reach Chippenham (Thingley Jn) on the Bath route.
Some solution at Bristol TM is needed before either route can be used electrically into the city.
Will they reach Cardiff before Bristol TM!? Milestones awaited.

 

[jimm]

There is an interview with GWR managing Director Mark Hopwood in the current issue of Rail which covers various aspects of electrification and the associated new rolling stock and planned cascades.

He says they still aim to start emu operations to Hayes & Harlington "within a few weeks" of getting the first emus early next year. Wires should be at Maidenhead in early 2017, which Mr Hopwood says is "our next opportunity" to use emus. At which point he also anticipates being able to start to release Turbos to Bristol.

He also says the Class 800s will enter service as planned from spring 2017, albeit using diesel power rather more of the time than initially planned and that they are working up plans to prove more capacity in the interim while waiting for the wires to spread involving existing rolling stock.

The article also says that after reaching Didcot, the plan for long-distance wiring is now to first get to Bristol Parkway and then Cardiff before tackling Temple Meads.

 

[swt_passenger]

He says they still aim to start emu operations to Hayes & Harlington "within a few weeks" of getting the first emus early next year. Wires should be at Maidenhead in early 2017, which Mr Hopwood says is "our next opportunity" to use emus.

Which it makes it rather odd that Rail have also run the 'scare story' implying that when the 'first EMUs' arrive there'll be no wires to use them under. Perhaps Rail really are unaware that Paddington to Hayes & Harlington (and beyond to the airport) is already wired...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There is an interview with GWR managing Director Mark Hopwood in the current issue of Rail which covers various aspects of electrification and the associated new rolling stock and planned cascades.

Also the comment that the IEPs on diesel power will be slower than the planned electrics, so they will have to invent an interim timetable.

 

[superkev]

Pictures may stimulate some discussion 're gw electrification.
http://www.railengineer.uk/2013/04/10/has-third-rail-had-its-day/
And
http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/...ad-lines-contest-revealed/8662318.fullarticle