Great Western Electrification Progress

[CdBrux]

It would be interesting to learn what the new financials are for this project. In any company (all non rail related) that I have worked for then such a staggering increase in costs would put the project under close review. I wonder if it was possible to remove politics, including that a factory is being built in the NE to make some trains for this line, if the decision would change or not? Or (with the limited credibility NR estimations would have) it would not be better to re-allocate resources to another project?

 

[Rich McLean]

It would be interesting to learn what the new financials are for this project. In any company (all non rail related) that I have worked for then such a staggering increase in costs would put the project under close review. I wonder if it was possible to remove politics, including that a factory is being built in the NE to make some trains for this line, if the decision would change or not? Or (with the limited credibility NR estimations would have) it would not be better to re-allocate resources to another project?

It will get re-impacted, with certain elements of the electrification project more than likely cut back (GWML Branches, West of Bristol Parkway)

 

[deltic08]

It will get re-impacted, with certain elements of the electrification project more than likely cut back (GWML Branches, West of Bristol Parkway)

How can it be that much over budget so soon? Stop everything west of Didcot and just continue to Oxford and Newbury. This money could be better spent elsewhere. Use bi-modes west of Didcot and bi-modes for Cross Country and TPEx to keep the factory producing.

Is the Northwest Triangle electrification much over budget?

 

[fgwrich]

From the BBC local news for Hampshire

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-31610849

Plans to modernise railways in the Thames Valley are a year behind schedule after they proved to be "dramatically more expensive" than first thought.

The predicted cost to transform the old Great Western route has climbed from £640m to £1.74bn, the BBC has learned.

Senior industry executives have said the plans to complete the work by the end of 2016 will not be met.

Not totally unexpected to be honest, given then current lack of progress in some parts of the project, along with the various delays so far seen the deadline of 2016 was always going to be a very tight one.

As for any cutbacks to the project, what and where would you cut? Basingstoke to Reading could be delayed, but it'll eventually have to be done given it's importance as part of both the TV Branches and Electric XC Spine. TV Branches? Result of that gives you a Diesel Island in an electric city, unless Paisley Canal OLHE is used?

As for Paul Clifton's reporting, up to his usual standard of everything that's old is bad for everyone and that the Thames Valley corridor seems to be the line of doom and misery for anyone who commutes along it. And the usual tedious spin out the age of the HST as if it's such a problem causer. :roll:

 

[Phil from Mon]

It will get re-impacted, with certain elements of the electrification project more than likely cut back (GWML Branches, West of Bristol Parkway)

That would I think be totally unacceptable to the Welsh Government, who are already in disrepute over the mess that Network Rail have made of redoubling in North East Wales. Whether that would have any effect other than a lot of noise and further conflict with Westminster though I am not sure.

 

[TheKnightWho]

That would I think be totally unacceptable to the Welsh Government, who are already in disrepute over the mess that Network Rail have made of redoubling in North East Wales. Whether that would have any effect other than a lot of noise and further conflict with Westminster though I am not sure.

I'm not really convinced this will get cut back, apart from maybe the Valley Lines. What is so expensive about it I'm not sure, though.

 

[TrickyHex]

Does anyone know if there are any signs of wires yet between Reading and Didcot?

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone know if there are any signs of wires yet between Reading and Didcot?

As of last week there were various uprights all along the length, some of which have four track cross bars and some have twin track cantilevers, but there are no small parts fitted to them whatsoever. Any wire run is probably some months away.

 

[TrickyHex]

Cheers... That doesnt bode well in the light of the general news about the delay

 

[TheKnightWho]

Presumably it's the clearing work, rather than the electrification itself, that is the expensive part? Once somewhere has got masts up installing the wires won't present too many difficulties, so I wouldn't be too pessimistic about that.

I can't imagine the equipment or the labour costs suddenly spiralling out of control, whereas unexpected problems in clearance are far more likely. Problems with tunnels, for example, can get very expensive very quickly if they need to rebore them etc.

 

[Tio Terry]

That's slightly OTT but also semi-true. The top metre or so is indeed being dug manually but after that it's back to standard piling methods.

Many years ago, as an anti-crime measure, someone somewhere had the bright idea that if the cables were buried, they would be a lot harder to steal and thus the signalling system would be much more reliable. Great idea, and mile upon mile or cables were direct biuried at varying depths along the track in the cess.

Unfotunately, record keeping of where these cables were and how deeply they were buried was a bit less great (!), meaning we now have big problems when trying to install OLE piles as we keep finding them in the way.

Note that we do already dig the top bit manually and make extensive usage of CAT scanners to find the cables before we disturb them, which is why we're not having the signalling system go down every night, but ocasionally the CAT scanners don't pick up a cable or the vibrations from a pile being instaled nearby cause the cable to break even though the pile itself did avoid it, which is why we've had a few instances of the signalling system going down.

This should get a lot better when most cables are made redundant at Easter, when slough PSB is decomissioned. However, there are still some cables direct buried that are not being decomissioned as part of the Slough PSB works, such as some power and some telecoms, so it's not all plain sailing after Easter, but the problems should decrease substantially.

Over the entire line of route from Slough to Bristol (both sides of the track) there is a total of some 73% with buried cables of some sought. Again, over the total route there are a total of 85,000 piles to be installed. That's a lot of hand dug holes! Hopefully, the re-signalling and re-control projects that are ongoing will reduce the need for hand digging as it wont matter if cables get chopped, it's just a matter of keeping the signalling works in front of the electrification works.

 

[RobShipway]

With regards to Basingstoke - Reading route I thought that had to be done as part of the OHLe from Southampton - Reading for freight services at least, if not the passenger services?

 

[swt_passenger]

With regards to Basingstoke - Reading route I thought that had to be done as part of the OHLe from Southampton - Reading for freight services at least, if not the passenger services?

But it's already (last September) been moved into the 'Thames Valley branches' project because it provides for electric passenger services in advance of whatever they do between Basingstoke and Southampton as part of electric spine.

It seems that NR must believe it is better to crack on with it for the passenger role:

Following approval for the electrification of the Great Western Main Line (GWML), there is an opportunity to also electrify the three Thames Valley branch lines (listed below) and the Reading to Basingstoke line enabling a significant switch to electrified services for commuting from the Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire and Hampshire catchments. This project is likely to increase the efficiency of services that currently make use of main line with direct access to London Paddington. It also gives greater operational flexibility and reduces inefficient use of diesel services ‘under the wires’ with the potential for increased capacity for services.
The project will facilitate the introduction of electric train operation on the Thames Valley branches and to Basingstoke, replacing diesel trains for cascade to the West, providing additional capacity for both the Thames Valley and the West of England

 

[Class 170101]

I'm not really convinced this will get cut back, apart from maybe the Valley Lines. What is so expensive about it I'm not sure, though.

Valley Lines now a Welsh Assembly sponsored scheme rather than a DfT sponsored scheme. So unlikely to be cut.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Valley Lines now a Welsh Assembly sponsored scheme rather than a DfT sponsored scheme. So unlikely to be cut.

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure so left it out of my earlier post. Still think that if NR or Westminster tried to cut back the rest to Bristol, or even to Cardiff, all hell would break out

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Presumably it's the clearing work, rather than the electrification itself, that is the expensive part? Once somewhere has got masts up installing the wires won't present too many difficulties, so I wouldn't be too pessimistic about that.

I can't imagine the equipment or the labour costs suddenly spiralling out of control, whereas unexpected problems in clearance are far more likely. Problems with tunnels, for example, can get very expensive very quickly if they need to rebore them etc.

Until the GW project hits its intended run-rates with the factory train, the unit costs will soar.
Taking twice as long as planned will double the costs.
The MML project is going back to road-railers for its electrification.
Clearance work, eg bridge rebuilding, should be more predictable.

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure so left it out of my earlier post. Still think that if NR or Westminster tried to cut back the rest to Bristol, or even to Cardiff, all hell would break out

I think DfT will simply defer projects into CP6, and stop talking about the "next tranche" of electrification.
We still don't really know how the other projects are going costwise and technically (NW and EGIP).
My guess is they are also late/over budget but not as spectacularly as the GW project.
We may be back to "fast lines only" in South Wales, amid other de-speccing.
There still seems to be a critical skills shortage on all projects.

 

[HowardGWR]

Until the GW project hits its intended run-rates with the factory train, the unit costs will soar.
Taking twice as long as planned will double the costs.
The MML project is going back to road-railers for its electrification.
Clearance work, eg bridge rebuilding, should be more predictable.

I can understand that statement where the 'suits' are concerned, but surely, is not most of the work technical / artisanal / labouring?

 

[edwin_m]

I can understand that statement where the 'suits' are concerned, but surely, is not most of the work technical / artisanal / labouring?

If there is a fixed labour force and the work takes twice as long as expected then surely the costs will be twice as much? Or possibly more if they start training up extra workers to speed things up.

 

[w1bbl3]

How can it be that much over budget so soon? Stop everything west of Didcot and just continue to Oxford and Newbury. This money could be better spent elsewhere. Use bi-modes west of Didcot and bi-modes for Cross Country and TPEx to keep the factory producing.

Is the Northwest Triangle electrification much over budget?

Without knowing what has triggered such a massive cost overrun simply cancelling the project or downscaling it may not recover that much cost as contracts and orders will have been placed that need renegotiating or terminating.

The real question is what tasks have generated a £1bn+ cost overrun against the £600m budget, where these identified as risks during the planning and design stage and how did the project plan propose to effectively mitigate. Strategic construction management be it civils, structures, refurb or fit-out basically an exercise in risk management.

In terms of outcome I'd expect completion of GWML modernisation works to trigger another review NR policies and practices around project planning, risk mitigation and contingencies. This may well mean that further route modernisation programmes or "simple" electrification schemes are postponed so lessons can be learnt.

My guess the budget was optimistic at the outset, the planning inadequate particularly around risks and detailed design "behind programme" such that opportunities to mitigate cost by re-design to solve rather than manage problems (risks) have been lost.

 

[edwin_m]

May be as simple as they were given the go-ahead when all they had done was some very preliminary design and costing? That plus all the experienced electrification engineers had retired or found other jobs due to there being no electrification projects to speak of for the last 20 years.

 

[swt_passenger]

Have the costings really just jumped so much all in one go, or has there been a gradually agreed increase, probably explained in about 4 years worth of ORR reports, and the BBC have compared the original 'finger in the air' figure with the latest prediction for greatest effect?

 

[AM9]

Have the costings really just jumped so much all in one go, or has there been a gradually agreed increase, probably explained in about 4 years worth of ORR reports, and the BBC have compared the original 'finger in the air' figure with the latest prediction for greatest effect?

And did any 'finger in the air' figure include proper escalation and contingency. Never trust the media when it starts comparing apples with pears.

 

[steverailer]

I think alot of the projects will get delayed, the resouces are getting stretched now, as more projects come online it will only get worse. Good linesmen are in very short supply, and some of the new trainees leave a very lot to be desired.

Its the same with the material supplies, I understand that the waiting time for cantelevers for the NW project is around 7 weeks, and there is already steel work waiting times on the GWR. The bonus is that the design for the GWR is a very simple one, so once on the ground you should see some good progress.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

And did any 'finger in the air' figure include proper escalation and contingency. Never trust the media when it starts comparing apples with pears.

Yes never let facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Forgive me if this has already been answered (I haven't had time to read all 54 pages of this thread). I've noticed quite a few of the piles seem to have been left standing proud, with lines and numbers painted down the sides like a ruler.

Is this because: they've encountered an obstruction? didn't need to be hammered-in any further? or were too long to start with?

Will the answer be to: leave them sticking up? push them further in later with a bigger hammer? cut them to the correct level? or replace them with shorter ones?

I know, I'm showing my ignorance here!

 

[HowardGWR]

If there is a fixed labour force and the work takes twice as long as expected then surely the costs will be twice as much? Or possibly more if they start training up extra workers to speed things up.

But it isn't is it? That was my point, most of the work is by contract out to suppliers surely?

 

[Class 170101]

But it isn't is it? That was my point, most of the work is by contract out to suppliers surely?

Well this article might be of interest to some in respect of labour workings.
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...own-on-contingent-labour-workforce-suppliers-

Network Rail cuts down on contingent labour workforce suppliers

Network Rail is to reduce the number of contingent labour suppliers it uses from 57 to 20, with four core suppliers providing 70% of the workforce, supported by smaller specialist suppliers.

However, as part of a ‘strategic change’, the rail infrastructure owner will be awarding a series of contracts with contingent labour suppliers to provide workers across the network with a minimum spend of £450m over five years.

The five-year contracts, which start on 1 April 2015, represent the provision of approximately 500 people per day.

The four core suppliers to be awarded contracts are: Ganymede Solutions Ltd; McGinley Support Services (Infrastructure) Ltd; Morson Human Resources Ltd; and Shorterm Ltd.

Ganymede, a wholly owned subsidiary business of RTC, will enter into the contract with Network Rail to provide contingent labour services including the supply of safety critical, track and E&P (electrification and plant) resources in the West, South West and North East England, the Midlands and Wales. The contract has an estimated order book value of between £80m to £100m.

Commenting on the award, RTC chief executive Andy Pendlebury said: “This is a significant achievement for Ganymede and the Group as a whole.

“Ganymede has steadily established itself as one of the UK’s most respected contingent labour suppliers and our long term partnership with Network Rail both underpins this and provides a fundamental pillar for the strategic growth plans of RTC’s business.”

Hand-in-hand with the new contracts comes a new code of conduct for labour that will require suppliers to pay as a minimum, the London living wage within Greater London; invest in training and development of their workforce; and minimise travel time.

Suppliers must also adopt Network Rail’s lifesaving rules, and ‘speak-out’ systems; provide all equipment and protective clothing free-of-charge to workers; and provide a competent and more professional contingent labour workforce.

Nick Elliott, managing director national supply chain, said: “These new contracts are all about transforming our contingent labour workforce into a more professional, fairly remunerated and appropriately trained body of people that we are able to call upon when the need arises.

“The new code of conduct for labour will drive better employer behaviours, improve the quality of the supply chain and help ensure that workers are treated fairly.”

Sean McGinley, business support director at McGinley Support Services Limited, told RTM: “We are pleased to have been selected as one of the four main Network Rail’s contingent labour suppliers for CP5. As we mobilise, we recognise that Network Rail’s Code of Conduct is the new standard for rail related service delivery in the UK and have already invested significantly in a higher level of health, safety and wellbeing for our workforce.

“We look forward to helping Network Rail reach their objectives with a fully compliant Code of Conduct service from the 1April 2015.”

The other suppliers awarded specialist and support contracts are:

Amey Rail Ltd
Bridgeway Consulting Ltd
Carillion Rail
Colas Rail Ltd
Coyle Personnel Plc
Exxell Ltd
GM Rail Services Ltd
GPX Engineering Ltd
Infra Safety Services Labour Ltd
Keltbray Rail
Linbrooke Services Ltd
MECX Group Ltd
Renown Railway Services
Resourcing Solutions Ltd
SW Global Resourcing Ltd
TES2000 Ltd

 

[mr_moo]

Forgive me if this has already been answered (I haven't had time to read all 54 pages of this thread). I've noticed quite a few of the piles seem to have been left standing proud, with lines and numbers painted down the sides like a ruler.

Is this because: they've encountered an obstruction? didn't need to be hammered-in any further? or were too long to start with?

Will the answer be to: leave them sticking up? push them further in later with a bigger hammer? cut them to the correct level? or replace them with shorter ones?

I know, I'm showing my ignorance here!

No need to apologise for ignorance!

Pile design uses a degree of assumption and general geology maps to decide what type of pile to use in what area. This is supplemented by ground investigation data at various points along the route to verify that the geology maps are valid, but, naturally, it's simply impractical to do this for every pile location and thus some assumptions are made and indeed the piles are often slightly over-designed to ensure they are adequate regardless.
Also, it’s much easier and quicker to have a large number of piles with only a small number of varying lengths rather than having a different length of pile for each one – this would increase the design and approval process drastically and would also allow much greater potential for error if the wrong one was taken to site. Besides, geology is an inexact science anyway so it’s difficult to predict exactly what length is needed for each one.

When installing the piles, most do go in ok but some do 'refuse', i.e. they simply stop going into the ground. This could be because they have hit rock, because it's hit much stiffer materials than envisaged, because the pore water pressures are higher and thus generating more resistance, or occasionally it could be because the pile has hit some unknown buried obstruction.

Most piles are put in with the standard piling equipment and most go in fine. If any 'refuse', they are left standing proud temporarily. In groups, the piles are then re-visited with a 'fambo' piling machine, which is stronger than the usual one. Most then go down to design depth but some still refuse.
After that, if it’s still proud, a decision is taken whether the pile is strong enough to perform its function despite not going to design depth. If yes, it's cut down to near ground level and the OLE stanchion is mounted on top anyway. If no, it's either removed if possible and feasible, or simply cut down and abandoned with a new pile being sunk nearby for the OLE stanchion to go onto instead.

The marking on the side are on all the piles - it's so you can get a good measure of how deep the pile has sunk as it's being installed.

HTH!

 

[Oxfordblues]

Thanks Mr Moo! That's answered all my concerns.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there currently any physical connection between where the XC pass through Reading to the Waterloo line is? If there is once the Basignstoke to Reading section of track gets electrified (eventually), with 444s and 450s converted to dual-voltage, would the Reading-Waterloo route be a viable diversion route for when there's engineering works on the SWML?