Great Western Electrification Progress

[swt_passenger]

Would a good test route for the two have been Weymouth-Poole? it would have had the side effect of doing away with the unit length restriction on that stretch and wouldn't have been too disruptive had it gone tits up

No it wouldn't have been. And the unit length restriction you keep going on about doesn't affect the currently required service capacity. Longer trains can run in an emergency.

You are treating this as a major limitation of the system, but it really isn't.

 

[HSTEd]

Would a good test route for the two have been Weymouth-Poole? it would have had the side effect of doing away with the unit length restriction on that stretch and wouldn't have been too disruptive had it gone tits up

I would have preferred a currently unelectrified section of railway - rather than possibly one of the newest of the third rail systems. I imagine some of the original capital equipment is still in place and not life expired in that section.

I was imagining something like a Manchester area electrification - either to Marple and Rose Hill Marple by both routes, or if that would be too disruptive in case of problems, then Hazel Grove to Buxton.

As its primary value would be to allow any problems to be worked out it would not have to necessarily be a route with an overwhelming case for electrification.
If GWML electrification had to proceed in the meantime then the first 'phase' of it should have been conducted with ECML-style Mark 3B or the Furrer and Frey kit from GEML.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I would have preferred a currently unelectrified section of railway - rather than possibly one of the newest of the third rail systems. I imagine some of the original capital equipment is still in place and not life expired in that section.

I was imagining something like a Manchester area electrification - either to Marple and Rose Hill Marple by both routes, or if that would be too disruptive in case of problems, then Hazel Grove to Buxton.

As its primary value would be to allow any problems to be worked out it would not have to necessarily be a route with an overwhelming case for electrification.
If GWML electrification had to proceed in the meantime then the first 'phase' of it should have been conducted with ECML-style Mark 3B or the Furrer and Frey kit from GEML.

Maybe Exeter-Waterloo?

 

[HSTEd]

Maybe Exeter-Waterloo?

DC conversions/integrations raise a whole host of other problems beyond those normally experienced in these projects.
And Exeter-Basingstoke is hardly a small scheme.
Don't run before you can walk.

You want an out of the way relatively simple scheme with relatively small stakes - over a relatively small distance so if it all goes belly up it can't bankrupt you or seriously screw your budgetary projections.

 

[HowardGWR]

Well, they may as well implement the whole works to completion at 140 mph now. I wrote earlier that, as it is unlikely that the GWML will ever have an HSL duplicate, like the WCML, then it should be future proofed for much higher speeds, which is why I think much more 4 tracking will be needed. I think the argument about third rail could have been relevant where the 'locals' are separate from the main line, like Euston to Watford and this is in discussion on the Liverpool expansion thread.

HYN to all, over and out for 2016 from HGWR.

 

[D6975]

DC conversions/integrations raise a whole host of other problems beyond those normally experienced in these projects.
And Exeter-Basingstoke is hardly a small scheme.
Don't run before you can walk.

You want an out of the way relatively simple scheme with relatively small stakes - over a relatively small distance so if it all goes belly up it can't bankrupt you or seriously screw your budgetary projections.

One of the infill/branch electrifications in the offing would probably have been the best idea = short distance but of real benefit short term as well as long term.
Blackpool N perhaps, or Neville Hill-Colton Jn?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

One of the infill/branch electrifications in the offing would probably have been the best idea = short distance but of real benefit short term as well as long term.
Blackpool N perhaps, or Neville Hill-Colton Jn?

The logical place would have been part of the TV4 section of the WCML, where there are trains capable of testing it at 140mph.
Virgin could then exploit the Pendolino 140mph capability (or whatever speed NR will allow above 125mph).
There's no point in Series 1 wiring of a branch line which will never exceed 100mph.

 

[HSTEd]

The logical place would have been part of the TV4 section of the WCML, where there are trains capable of testing it at 140mph.
Virgin could then exploit the Pendolino 140mph capability (or whatever speed NR will allow above 125mph).
There's no point in Series 1 wiring of a branch line which will never exceed 100mph.

But that would involve ripping down overhead wiring and replacing - so you spend the money for effectively no purpose.
The purpose of the project is not to test the equipment at high speed as such, it would be to demonstrate that the installation and commisioning techniques work properly and as efficiently as had ben forecast.

 

[QueensCurve]

But that would involve ripping down overhead wiring and replacing - so you spend the money for effectively no purpose.
The purpose of the project is not to test the equipment at high speed as such, it would be to demonstrate that the installation and commisioning techniques work properly and as efficiently as had ben forecast.

I suppose the point is that NR could have specified OHLE to a new standard when TV4 was implemented rather than modify it later.

That opportunity was not taken at the time. Perhaps it was recognised as a threat.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Presumably once the remaining sections get round to being electrified sometime well into the next decade, all this "experience" will have moved on to other jobs, and everything will have to be learnt again.

Though somehow this did not seem to apply to the ECML electrification, which was the first major overhead project for a long period. Perhaps they didn't feel the need to employ multiple tiers of highly-paid consultants to give advice on how to do it "efficiently".

???

There were loads of issues at the start of ECML wiring. Your rose-tinted glasses are showing.

 

[jyte]

???

There were loads of issues at the start of ECML wiring. Your rose-tinted glasses are showing.

I was under the impression many of those still exist!

 

[dgl]

Also doing Bournemouth to Weymouth as a trial would require alterations to the class 440/450 fleet for 25kv operation, not worth the extra weight on an already weighty EMU for that short of section (~30 miles iirc).

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Also doing Bournemouth to Weymouth as a trial would require alterations to the class 440/450 fleet for 25kv operation, not worth the extra weight on an already weighty EMU for that short of section (~30 miles iirc).

The "extra" weight is probably already onboard in the form of a concrete block. The manufacturers fit concrete blocks instead of the transformer for DC units so they can use all the same bogies and suspension

 

[QueensCurve]

Also doing Bournemouth to Weymouth as a trial would require alterations to the class 440/450 fleet for 25kv operation, not worth the extra weight on an already weighty EMU for that short of section (~30 miles iirc).

Without implying that they project is a viable one, are there not some Class 350s already equipped for DC operation?

 

[swt_passenger]

The "extra" weight is probably already onboard in the form of a concrete block. The manufacturers fit concrete blocks instead of the transformer for DC units so they can use all the same bogies and suspension

The weights shown in the P5 books suggest this isn't done on Siemens units. A comparison of the otherwise identical 350/1s and 450s shows the relevant vehicle is about 6 tonnes heavier in the 350/1

 

[swt_passenger]

Without implying that they project is a viable one, are there not some Class 350s already equipped for DC operation?

Yes, but they'd all be needed on their existing route. The whole idea is a solution to a non existent problem.

 

[Quark999]

Because I have not seen it mentioned - just east of Taplow station the first bit of auto transformer wire has appeared on the relief lines...

 

[ic250]

This may have already been noted, but the first few yards of the Windsor branch have also been wired out of Slough. The corresponding platform has not yet been wired, however.

 

[SWT_USER]

Is the signal failure this morning related to any of the work done over Christmas? Supposed to be the first day of service for almost two weeks and the morning peak service from Hanwell is cancelled :roll:

 

[leomartin125]

This may have already been noted, but the first few yards of the Windsor branch have also been wired out of Slough. The corresponding platform has not yet been wired, however.

That was completed a while back now, as was the first few yards of the Marlow branch, with platform 5 now electrified at Maidenhead (minus the A/T wires). I have also noticed the Up/Down Main lines at Maidenhead now have auto transformer wires, whilst the Up/Down Relief do not yet.

 

[ANP1990]

Not sure if it's been mentioned:
- The wires have gone up over the West Ealing sidings, and it appears that the signalling has been put in as well.

- It looks like Network Rail have dug up one of the lines approaching old oak common (east of the fly over). From the remaining track and OHLE, it looks like it will be reinstated at some point.

 

[ScotGG]

I see in Modern Railways that the French are wiring 127 km on a route out of Paris. Total budget of 300m Euros, or about £250 million.

Why is there always such a big discrepancy?

Do they not have the silly overhead allowance rule meaning over engineering all structures? A rolling program so everything not done from scratch?

It includes 6,000 OHLE masts, 320km of catenary wire and 160km of signal cables

 

[furnessvale]

I see in Modern Railways that the French are wiring 127 km on a route out of Paris. Total budget of 300m Euros, or about £250 million.

Why is there always such a big discrepancy?

Do they not have the silly overhead allowance rule meaning over engineering all structures? A rolling program so everything not done from scratch?

It includes 6,000 OHLE masts, 320km of catenary wire and 160km of signal cables

Does it mention how many structures are being rebuilt to provide clearances?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's still £1m per stkm (assuming double track), which is still much higher than the NR RUS figures.
Seems to include resignalling though.

 

[HSTEd]

I see in Modern Railways that the French are wiring 127 km on a route out of Paris. Total budget of 300m Euros, or about £250 million.

Why is there always such a big discrepancy?

Do they not have the silly overhead allowance rule meaning over engineering all structures? A rolling program so everything not done from scratch?

It includes 6,000 OHLE masts, 320km of catenary wire and 160km of signal cables

DO we know the route in question (which will tell us about structure requirements)? Is this a 25kV scheme? Lines going south out of Paris are mostly (if not high speed) electrified at 1500V which would have drastically reduced clearances. On pair with the old BR-era 'Special Reduced' 150mm clearance.

 

[D1009]

DO we know the route in question (which will tell us about structure requirements)? Is this a 25kV scheme? Lines going south out of Paris are mostly (if not high speed) electrified at 1500V which would have drastically reduced clearances. On pair with the old BR-era 'Special Reduced' 150mm clearance.

It's from Paris Gare de L'Est to Troyes, the first 38.3 km to Gretz-Armainvilliers is already electrified for RER services. It's at 25kV.

 

[furnessvale]

DO we know the route in question (which will tell us about structure requirements)? Is this a 25kV scheme? Lines going south out of Paris are mostly (if not high speed) electrified at 1500V which would have drastically reduced clearances. On pair with the old BR-era 'Special Reduced' 150mm clearance.

Without digging out my old blue book, I didn't think there was a great deal of difference in clearances between 25Kv AC and 1500v DC, given the propensity for DC current to jump greater distances (or so I was told).

 

[HSTEd]

Without digging out my old blue book, I didn't think there was a great deal of difference in clearances between 25Kv AC and 1500v DC, given the propensity for DC current to jump greater distances (or so I was told).

HMRI/ORR gives a normal minimum static electrical clearance of 150mm for 1500V.
The normal minimum for 25kV installations is now 370mm or so.

 

[D1009]

I see in Modern Railways that the French are wiring 127 km on a route out of Paris. Total budget of 300m Euros, or about £250 million.

Why is there always such a big discrepancy?

Do they not have the silly overhead allowance rule meaning over engineering all structures? A rolling program so everything not done from scratch?

It includes 6,000 OHLE masts, 320km of catenary wire and 160km of signal cables

I would imagine the larger loading gauge gives more room for equipment and probably reduces costs. I'm not aware the French have been doing much in the way of electrification of existing routes, though they have been building new railways.

 

[QueensCurve]

Crossrail tweeted a video clip of the Acton Diveunder.

https://twitter.com/Crossrail/status/816334939767640064