Great Northern Weekend Cancellations

[Taunton]

At the rate this is going, those GTR managers coming to London King's Cross on Thursday morning to engage with the public may find themselves butchered, seasoned and roasted.

Their meeting will probably follow the example of their trains, and be cancelled.

 

[FOH]

Their meeting will probably follow the example of their trains, and be cancelled.

Certainly during the London Bridge chaos a meet the managers session was postponed

 

[Hadders]

Very convenient for the managers to go to Kings Cross when many passengers will be at St Pancras.

 

[700007]

Very convenient for the managers to go to Kings Cross when many passengers will be at St Pancras.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

[gingerheid]

[...]"This is due to incompetence"[...]

In fairness to them, planning error is quite similar.

 

[morgainelive]

yet again Peterborough trains suffer seems 4 cancellations for this already abysmal service looks like a 2 hour gap so how are we supposed to get to our destination today? fly? yesterday 4 car trains in a 1tph because of driver shortage meaning full and standjng trains looks like thames link problems gave now become a gn problem within thus new thames link great Northern recast . is there a spoof twitter or Facebook account where we can moan because GTR don't seem to care. Great start to a new cast timetable not! rant over wouldn't be so bad but I'm on crutches making it all more painful

 

[Z12XE]

[..] is there a spoof twitter or Facebook account where we can moan [...]l

Yes because that always solves the issues !

 

[Taunton]

The issue in significant part comes from the way in which PPM is measured, and then managed by operators.

When initially set, it expects that there will, inevitably, be a proportion of causes of delay in running a public service. The measure is set, in significant part, to encourage operators to put all endeavours into getting a disrupted service back to normal again. So if, to take an extreme example, an aeroplane crashes onto the railway, there is an encouragement to minimise the disruption rather than say for the rest of the week "oh well, not my problem ...". The same applies to minor disruptions, there is a PPM allowance but not much beyond, so you should have to try.

HOWEVER, what has happened is that operators have increasingly seen the PPM allowance as "theirs" only, and will actually plan down to the allowance for their own internal issues and minimising costs. Short staffed for the weekend? Well, if we have a (for example) PPM allowance of 90% for delays and 95% for outright cancellations, as long as we come in within the 95%, that's fine, and we can cheesepare our staff numbers down to achieve that figure. Then something else happens and it's all disruption. But never mind. We put up loads of posters threatening prosecution if passengers don't buy the right ticket in advance, before they even get to the platform, and most don't claim delay repay anyway, so on we go.

I see GTR have now told platform staff they must not load PRM passengers by ramps if this will impact the punctuality of the service http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44172072 . I couldn't quite believe this when I heard it (but GTR confirms it - see link), and feel it may well contravene the Equality legislation. But this is just typical. The PPM allowance anticipates such issues, and the operator should allow adequate turnround allowances and crew scheduling to handle minor issues like this, but the operator has taken all the allowance for their own internal delay-causing economies, with minimal turnrounds at both ends for hours, crews scheduled right up to the minute, etc.

 

[jon0844]

At the rate this is going, those GTR managers coming to London King's Cross on Thursday morning to engage with the public may find themselves butchered, seasoned and roasted.

And having to get there by bus.

 

[700007]

GTR have just appeared on the 10 o Clock news for their incompetence today.

And having to get there by bus.



 

[jon0844]

GTR have just appeared on the 10 o Clock news for their incompetence today.




I should add that they apparently struggled to source many buses today too. My guess is that there are plenty of buses on a Sunday, but obviously no drivers spare. And yet you might assume a 'plan b' is to put drivers on notice to scramble them if things go wrong... even if it means paying a group to be on call that aren't called upon...

 

[London Trains]

GTR have just appeared on the 10 o Clock news for their incompetence today.


As well as the 6 o clock and 1 o clock news.

 

[Chris999999]

GTR have just appeared on the 10 o Clock news for their incompetence today.




Maybe they will be given their own slot for the next few weeks where they try to predict what tomorrow will be like - just like a weather forecast.

 

[amateur]

I see GTR have now told platform staff they must not load PRM passengers by ramps if this will impact the punctuality of the service http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44172072 . I couldn't quite believe this when I heard it (but GTR confirms it - see link), and feel it may well contravene the Equality legislation. But this is just typical.

I'm sure it would be a breach of the equality act 2010.

 

[jon0844]

I'm sure it would be a breach of the equality act 2010.

When I heard about this some time ago, I did think the same. Basically, having to board someone further down the platform means if the train is due to go in one minute there simply won't be time to board them without the train going late. That certainly appears discriminatory.

I think the defence, if any, would be that train doors can be closed up to 30 or 60 seconds before departure. As such, they can argue that nobody should be boarding once the whistle has been blown on the minute, yet it's clear that some people can and will run and jump on the first set of doors.

What's a workable solution?

 

[MikeWM]

<snipped - wrong thread>

 

[infobleep]

As well as the 6 o clock and 1 o clock news.

Was it the same spokesme being interviewed across all three? After all it's a Sunday so the news broadcastwrs wouldn't need much from them

In fact being a Sunday probably helped as there's be less journalists working so less live minute by minute coverage.

It would though have been even better if the timetable had launched on the Saturday as the Royal Wedding was taking place then, so GTR might not have even needed to provide a spokesman.

Note this isn't about fixing the problem but just trying to minimise the coverage of it instead. Just my cynical take on it.

 

[SPADTrap]

When I heard about this some time ago, I did think the same. Basically, having to board someone further down the platform means if the train is due to go in one minute there simply won't be time to board them without the train going late. That certainly appears discriminatory.

I think the defence, if any, would be that train doors can be closed up to 30 or 60 seconds before departure. As such, they can argue that nobody should be boarding once the whistle has been blown on the minute, yet it's clear that some people can and will run and jump on the first set of doors.

What's a workable solution?

The reality is the over stretching of the infrastructure. If people with reduced mobility are seen as too slow and a risk to right time running then it's gone too far. The solution is don't over stretch the infrastructure.

 

[morgainelive]

Basically Great Northern have turned into Thameslink going back several years with their "driver shortage" i know same company but it's been an utter disaster on the routes that see less frequent trains, but of course we don't want to upset certain commuters/travellers by cancelling their precious services As a person of reduced mobility, i feel GN/Thameslink they have failed to provide a basic duty for care to passengers who were inconvenienced and have reduced mobility. I am writing in as i was not impressed at being told to wait 2 hours and there was nothing else that could be done, nice one customer training here at its best! Last Sunday as an utter shambles and they and the Government should have seen this coming, all got was a 50% rebate on that portion of the ticket, hmm i think for the 23.00 i pay i should have it all back. Teething troubles I get but the no information why,apart from operational incident? The no empathy from staff, who i am sure were just as annoyed as the passengers and lack of RRB/ticket acceptance when it would seem they knew this would happen is really not good enough in my opinion!

 

[jon0844]

There are agreements for ticket acceptance on local buses and other nearby routes, and Virgin also allowed passengers on their trains at certain times to fill gaps (at Peterborough) but when there have been large gaps, taxis have been offered but with great difficulty in actually sourcing any.

Many people have booked taxis at their own expense from the same firms Canfind use and depending on the time of day there simply haven't been enough (taxi) drivers.

 

[morgainelive]

Yes but unfortunately virgin are also heaving i feel sorey for those who aee of reduced mobility like me beung shunted from. Pillar to post Sunday was downright disgraceful abd staff at Finsbury Park didnt seek to give a stuff tganks great northern lets get this contract ended ans Chris Grayling abd Jo JOhnson what are they doing about it hmn not much its vettubg ridiculous i've written to myMPand to the ceo of GTR

 

[Robertj21a]

Yes but unfortunately virgin are also heaving i feel sorey for those who aee of reduced mobility like me beung shunted from. Pillar to post Sunday was downright disgraceful abd staff at Finsbury Park didnt seek to give a stuff tganks great northern lets get this contract ended ans Chris Grayling abd Jo JOhnson what are they doing about it hmn not much its vettubg ridiculous i've written to myMPand to the ceo of GTR

Well I think I can just about understand an English language version of that.......

 

[Hadders]

Shambolic service today.

Many services cancelled on the Cambridge and Moorgate routes, trains that are running short formed. I’m on the 13:36 from Stevenage, advertised on the boards as 8-car and a 4-car 387 turns up. Passengers left behind and the 13:40 stopper is cancelled.

Matters compounded by Arsenal playing at home.

 

[bramling]

Shambolic service today.

Many services cancelled on the Cambridge and Moorgate routes, trains that are running short formed. I’m on the 13:36 from Stevenage, advertised on the boards as 8-car and a 4-car 387 turns up. Passengers left behind and the 13:40 stopper is cancelled.

Matters compounded by Arsenal playing at home.

Glad I took the car in today then!

In a moment of madness I was actually thinking about giving the train a go to get to London today, especially knowing that it's possible to avoid 700s at weekends in the current timetable.

A sad state of affairs.

 

[jopsuk]

so far 6 out of 20 Cambridge-King's Cross services cancelled. RTT doesn't show the shorts-forms, of course

 

[bramling]

so far 6 out of 20 Cambridge-King's Cross services cancelled. RTT doesn't show the shorts-forms, of course

Bad enough to have a weekend service with 8-car trains vice promised 12 cars, but then running 4-car trains is quite ridiculous.

Thinking back to FCC and WAGN days this was a well-run operation. Now it’s a shambles.

 

[jon0844]

It'll be drivers that don't sign 700s so they'll need to be replaced with 4 car trains for the shacks near Cambridge .

 

[bramling]

It'll be drivers that don't sign 700s so they'll need to be replaced with 4 car trains for the shacks near Cambridge .

I thought that was resolved now there's the ability to use 2x387? Unless it's a case of insufficient 387s in the right place or no one to do any shunting required?

 

[jon0844]

I thought that was resolved now there's the ability to use 2x387? Unless it's a case of insufficient 387s in the right place or no one to do any shunting required?

Do 387s use DOO there? If they don't open the gangways between units then people can't move up or down the train.

On a 700 it's a long walk but at least the screens make it very clear. Keep walking until there's no more red!

 

[philjo]

Lots of Cambridge to Kings Cross services cancelled this morning. So a couple of the Kings Lynn trains were calling at all intermediate stations to Hitchin.

A 313 from Moorgate terminated at Stevenage platform 4 this morning. When staff tried to dispatch the service back to Moorgate it became apparent that there wasn’t a driver in the train. The driver who brought the train in was now scheduled to travel to London so he left platform 4 and caught a fast train. But the other driver scheduled to take over had not arrived. So there was a 313 blocking platform 4 with no driver available to move it. The Cathedrals Express charter to Norwich was now stuck behind it as this had picked up at Hertford North so could only use platform 4 at Stevenage. A driver was found in London so arrived off a fast northbound service and took the 313 away empty, after the train had been there for over 75 minutes. Thanks to Great Northern the charter left Stevenage 88 minutes late. It had left Hertford on time.