The green gwrs did go to SN, but continuing software problems meant they've gone back to GN for a while. 387123 and 126 have gone to SN early instead to join 127, 128 and 129.
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Great Northern Fleet - 379s introduction
- Thread starter Mollman
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bramling
Veteran Member
I bet the 379s will be troublesome for a while. History tends to show that trains do not take kindly to long periods in open store. GN users aren’t really getting much out of this whole thing - a ton of risks, for an end-gain of a couple of extra units and softer seats (possibly with added mould!).
If this is a guessing game I'll go with rodents
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
I’ll go with mothballs.
03_179
Established Member
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Ah, but seriously whatever it is, I’m not surprised they’re not in mint condition after their storage period, let’s just hope the trains are eventually back to their former glory again soon. They are very nice and I for one am looking forward to seeing them back in use.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
When the class 50 locomotives arrived on the Western Region of British Rail from their duties North of Crewe/Preston they were in a terrible state despite no long period of storage. That was way back in the BR era. Any Depot losing a fleet of locomotives/units is not going to prioritise their upkeep over stock they are keeping are they ?. The first stored class 379 units may well have donated parts to units of the same class still in service at the time. It is then up to the owner to make sure their units have been handed back in acceptable condition - but did they ?.
Plus four years lack of use is going to play havoc with more modern stock like the 379s.
EDIT - the length of storage is what my money is on.
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Royston Vasey
Established Member
Bits missing?
brad465
Veteran Member
You say you can't disclose publicly, then proceed to answer confidently "no" to other posters' guesses, so you've now invited an elimination game.
If the 379s are delayed into service for reasons, is this going to delay the subsequent 387 and 377 cascades (beyond the 2 units of each that have already moved)?
They can’t call at any GN station as they’re not cleared for passenger service. Only platform 2 at Alexandra Palace is prohibited
Failed Unit
Established Member
What a pity that would be if it means the stop is removed again and it gives the option of using the fast lines to London if it makes operational sense (passing a Moorgate service).
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This is interesting, I thought they were the same physically as the 387s (Although I suspect the may have different DOO). I guess we will soon see them at WGC again, after Christmas.
My guess is it may be to do with platform lighting. The 387s had the same issues.
I’m sure they will be cleared before entering service
Failed Unit
Established Member
You are missing my point. If the 379s prevent Great Northern stopping at Ally Pally that is positive to the network resilience.
Of course I agree they will fix what ever issue is barring them from that stop, but the delays the Ally Pally service has introduced isn’t good (Which I know are normally caused by the stopping service waiting at Welwyn North and missing its path at Welwyn Garden City)
I digress.
Fincra5
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 2,636
Indeed but they didn't get "Driven" shall we say. Slight difference for a unit being Dragged around, occasionally using its Pan and sometimes being plugged into a Shore Supply.
You won't discover the main issues until you recommission a train.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
They'll be cleared for the whole GN (minus NCL obvs). There's a whole programme at work to recommission the units and get them into service. It's just taking some time.
Indeed but that is what happens without a national rolling stock policy (and no rolling electrification program to allow mid-life trains to drop into). See also the rebuilt 321s and quite possibly the 350/2s now going off lease.
Don't get me started on this. The delays 2C etc pick up now it crazy. Completely shafted behind 2V services when late and outside WGC. No effort ever made to run round to maintain time. Meh
Isn't that because it would cause delays to longer distance services, not least if it didn't actually get in front by Potters Bar.
bramling
Veteran Member
Not always. I was on a Letchworth to King’s Cross service this week which had a slightly late start from Letchworth, but then got stuck behind the 717 service from Welwyn onwards and reached King’s Cross over 20 minutes late. No attempt to utilise what would have been a few possible options to use the fast lines, or for that matter the up slow no.2 from Alexandra Palace. Being early morning, nothing at all came past on the up fast the whole way from Welwyn to Finsbury Park.
They seem to have no qualms about delaying long distance trains for late running Thameslink services. For example, depart King's Cross on time, four or five late passing Finsbury Park.
9xxx trains are supposed to have the highest priority, to ensure making and exiting the core on time (and ideally in the correct sequence), but it doesn't always happen and a late 9Yxx WGC to Sevenoaks service can sometimes get put behind the Moorgate even though it means being stuck almost all the way to London.
I suspect a lot of this is down to automatic route setting and perhaps not enough time to manage trains manually, to plan for a train to pass a slow/delayed service near Hatfield, Potters Bar, New Barnet etc. If there isn't anyone to step in, it will just run as the computer sees fit. I have no idea if the systems in York have changed on account of the new signalling between Hatfield/WGC and Hitchin/Biggleswade, but long before the changes there have been cases where trains are made to run fast (either to ensure the next working isn't delayed, or maybe to ensure crew get to another station quickly to not delay other trains), but never actually pass a service ahead so may as well run as booked.
But, this isn't relevant to class 379s and I can't see how their introduction will change any of the above!
I suspect a lot of this is down to automatic route setting and perhaps not enough time to manage trains manually, to plan for a train to pass a slow/delayed service near Hatfield, Potters Bar, New Barnet etc. If there isn't anyone to step in, it will just run as the computer sees fit. I have no idea if the systems in York have changed on account of the new signalling between Hatfield/WGC and Hitchin/Biggleswade, but long before the changes there have been cases where trains are made to run fast (either to ensure the next working isn't delayed, or maybe to ensure crew get to another station quickly to not delay other trains), but never actually pass a service ahead so may as well run as booked.
But, this isn't relevant to class 379s and I can't see how their introduction will change any of the above!
Steve Harris
Member
I think that is caused by :
There are several other threads discussing SARS, DRS etc on the ECML, one being here. Perhaps that part of the discussion would be better off there as jon0844 has already pointed out poor regulation has nothing to do with the introduction of 379's.
callumreecepl
Member
Incidentally, when are the Class 379 due to begin service?
December 2024
December 2024
There was supposed to be one service in the morning and evening peak, before being gradually introduced in 2025.
callumreecepl
Member
Was trying to work out when more Class 465 are next likely to be withdrawn.
Is there a discussion regarding the matter anywhere.
Fincra5
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 2,636
ASAP!
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Over on this thread
Planned 387 and 377 cascades to Southern and Southeastern in 2025
Hi everyone. We’ve been told that 13 class 377s will be coming over to SE shortly, this is to replace more networkers. I guess they’re to replace 465s on some of the Ashford/gillingham runs? Would 52 coaches be enough to replace the remaining 465/9 fleet? And some 2 cars?
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