Great British Railways online rail ticket retailing

[alistairlees]

On the DfT website this morning

Great British Railways online rail ticket retailing

www.gov.uk

After Great British Railways is established following legislation, it will retail online by bringing together individual train operators’ ticket websites. It will work alongside a thriving private sector retail market, where all rail retailers can compete in an open and fair manner. The private sector will continue to play a key role in driving growth through innovation and investment and encouraging more people to choose rail.

Exact plans for Great British Railways online retail and ensuring a fair and competitive market will now be developed over time in close partnership with industry and the private sector. Further detail will be consulted on as part of wider proposals to establish Great British Railways, which will be delivered through the Railways Bill.

Great British Railways will deliver on the government’s commitment to simplify the complex web of fares and tickets that currently exist across the network, including by allowing passengers to buy tickets both online and offline.

In the coming months we will set out more detail about how, through Great British Railways, we will reform our railways to modernise working practices, make tickets simpler and fairer, and deliver a better service for passengers and a better deal for taxpayers.

 

[ollyexe2808]

This makes sense and I am glad they have made it clear that this will be the case. I hope they take influence from some of the better user interfaces and apps to create something accessible and with high functionality. Unlike the current National Rail offering....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The text on the DfT web site says it "Applies to England, Scotland and Wales", which presumably means it covers Scotrail and TfW as well as DfT TOCs.
As ever, the announcement generates more questions than answers.
Presumably they will start with the DfTO TOCs and expand as TOCs are brought in-house.
They will have to choose or develop a booking engine and platform, which may or may not include private suppliers (trainline etc).
It won't be a quick or easy project, unless they mandate one of the existing TOC systems.

 

[Watershed]

It will work alongside a thriving private sector retail market, where all rail retailers can compete in an open and fair manner

I wonder whether that will involve TOCs being forced to allow promotional fares or discounts to be sold through all retailers rather than restricting them to their own channels. Somehow I doubt it! This widespread practice creates an uneven playing field for third party retailers, resulting in the opposite of "open and fair" competition.

The creation of a central retailing site also implies government subsidy, so will commission rates and issuance/operating fees be reviewed? Again, this currently leaves third party retailers at a disadvantage.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

John Lewis or M & S doesn't charge a fee to buy its own products from its own website or app - why should GBR? As for third party retailers - well tough.

 

[OscarH]

I wonder whether that will involve TOCs being forced to allow promotional fares or discounts to be sold through all retailers rather than restricting them to their own channels. Somehow I doubt it! This widespread practice creates an uneven playing field for third party retailers, resulting in the opposite of "open and fair" competition.

The creation of a central retailing site also implies government subsidy, so will commission rates and issuance/operating fees be reviewed? Again, this currently leaves third party retailers at a disadvantage.

Yeah, we'll see about competing in a "fair" manner...

Very sceptical about any positive changes coming out of this

 

[Bletchleyite]

It won't be a quick or easy project, unless they mandate one of the existing TOC systems.

They own the LNER one already and it isn't terrible...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Who owns the IPR for current TOC booking systems?
I suspect it will be the private developers (trainline etc) rather than the TOC/DfT/GBR.
So GBR will need to buy that in or have a development contract with the owner(s).

Exact plans for Great British Railways online retail and ensuring a fair and competitive market will now be developed over time in close partnership with industry and the private sector.

 

[mikeg]

They could always bring back the mixing deck. If they combined that with a loyalty programme they’d be me go to retailer.
in all seriousness this is a sensible step. I appreciate peoples’ comments about third party retailers but if the TOCs each have their own ticketing site and are being rolled into GBR it makes sense for GBR to have one. As the TOCs won’t exist anymore. Would also save a lot of duplication

 

[nwales58]

‘Exact plans will be developed over time’

Sounds like a non-announcement announcement to me

 

[MrJeeves]

Who owns the IPR for current TOC booking systems?
I suspect it will be the private developers (trainline etc) rather than the TOC/DfT/GBR.
So GBR will need to buy that in or have a development contract with the owner(s).

NRE uses Silverrail, and I think it's rather likely GBR will simply copy-paste the NRE system, simply with a button to checkout instead of taking you to a TOC site.

For TOC public booking systems, I think...

Retailer	TOCs	Third party equivalent
Trainline	LNWR/WMR, Northern, EMR, Greater Anglia	I don't think this needs a link...
On Track Retail (via Silverrail)	GTR (Thameslink/Southern/Gat Ex/Great Northern), Southeastern	https://myticketyboo.com/
On Track Retail (via Assertis)	TPE	https://myticketyboo.com/
Pico4UK	Avanti West Coast and c2c	None
Silverrail	GWR, SWR, ScotRail, Transport for Wales, CrossCountry, Chiltern and Grand Central (OAO)	https://quno.com/
Vix (Silverrail journey planner)	LNER	None
Worldline	Hull Trains (OAO), Lumo (OAO)	https://www.redspottedhanky.com/
Assertis	Caledonian Sleeper and Heathrow Express (OAO)	https://railsmartr.co.uk/

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They could always bring back the mixing deck. If they combined that with a loyalty programme they’d be me go to retailer.
in all seriousness this is a sensible step. I appreciate peoples’ comments about third party retailers but if the TOCs each have their own ticketing site and are being rolled into GBR it makes sense for GBR to have one. As the TOCs won’t exist anymore. Would also save a lot of duplication

I wouldn't be so sure about the TOCs not existing.
GBR might well have a complex structure with separate operators/sectors/regions - there's the devolved operations for a start (Merseyrail being the prime example).
There's a difference between superficial branding and the underlying retail tech, as well as licensing to third parties to consider.
A radical fares structure revision would alter the dynamic again, in favour of a new central system.

I remember back pre-privatisation that BR wanted an Intercity booking system, and this turned into the Fujitsu back office system and booking office tills used by a number of TOCs - I don't know if it is still like that, or how many different back-office systems there are now.
How the retail system interacts with GBR's chosen back office system is another critical area to consider.
NRE (RDG/ATOC) is the current central web site - I can't think of a less appealing start if that is to become part of the GBR setup.

 

[WAB]

I wouldn't mind something similar to the LNER website.

 

[Trainbike46]

They could always bring back the mixing deck. If they combined that with a loyalty programme they’d be me go to retailer.

MixingDeck is still available at some retailers, including at:
GWR

Great Western Railway

tickets.gwr.com

Lumo

MixingDeck

 

[MrJeeves]

MixingDeck is still available at some retailers, including at:
GWR

Great Western Railway

tickets.gwr.com

Lumo

MixingDeck

Or through Worldline's third-party retailer, RedSpottedHankey, too: https://tickets.redspottedhanky.com/rsh/en/JourneyPlanning/MixingDeck

 

[Wallsendmag]

They own the LNER one already and it isn't terrible...

Do they?

 

[Highview]

What's the chance that a completely new bespoke system will be designed and procured involving a multimillion pound contract that will have a massive cost overrun, be late and then partly descoped. Then, of course, completely new ticket issuing machines will be needed for public and staff use...

 

[Haywain]

What's the chance that a completely new bespoke system will be designed and procured involving a multimillion pound contract that will have a massive cost overrun, be late and then partly descoped. Then, of course, completely new ticket issuing machines will be needed for public and staff use...

Close to nil, I'd say.

 

[Andrew1395]

There are lots of WebTis, (internet retailing), out there. I don’t think it would cost a huge amount to design another one from scratch. They all use the same source data from the Rail Delivery Group, who specify how the data from a sale is recorded and sent to RDGs settlement system. So its well trod road, and compared to many other things that will be done to create GBR, it will barely be a footnote in the accounts.

 

[TUC]

So providing something that is well covered by others and isn't needed. Good to see how GBR's priorities will operate.

 

[crablab]

Wonder if this sparks the beginning of the end for RDG's fiefdom of industry systems?

No real reason for them to exist in a GBR world; certainly not as a proxy for IT contracts (eg. with Squills, Worldline, Fujitsu, ATOS etc.)

I can imagine they may go back to being an "ATOC" to represent the non-GBR entities, but I really hope they do not manage to insert themselves as a vital cog in the GBR tech stack.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do they?

Own was probably the wrong word - but it is already contracted to a DfT TOC.

 

[crablab]

Own was probably the wrong word - but it is already contracted to a DfT TOC.

Bits of it, certainly the customer facing parts, have been built by Softwire. I was under the impression that LNER owned those.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Bits of it, certainly the customer facing parts, have been built by Softwire. I was under the impression that LNER owned those.

Ownership might mean licensed, with the IPR staying with the supplier.
It's like folk thinking that LNER/DfT/GBR "owns" the Azuma fleet, when of course they don't, they just lease the trains from Agility/Hitachi (for another 20+ years), and the IPR stays with Hitachi.

I'd expect RDG to be absorbed into GBR at some point.
Isn't it where all the industry data feeds are distributed, on behalf of all the TOCs (public or private)?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Own was probably the wrong word - but it is already contracted to a DfT TOC.

There are three DfTO web suppliers plus a Trainline white label.

 

[crablab]

Ownership might mean licensed, with the IPR staying with the supplier.

Softwire are a consultancy. I do not believe they are in the business of licencing SaaS products.
You pay them for hours building something you specify.

 

[Haywain]

Bits of it, certainly the customer facing parts, have been built by Softwire. I was under the impression that LNER owned those.

Softwire are suppliers for the app which is owned by LNER.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Softwire are suppliers for the app which is owned by LNER.

Also the web front end

 

[Bletchleyite]

Softwire are suppliers for the app which is owned by LNER.

Also the web front end

So it's a bit like Trainsplit being built on top of Raileasy, i.e. LNER own the user-facing bits but someone else's back end does the fulfilment itself? (I realise TS/RE are now one company but they weren't to start with). I suppose that's more than a TOC owns of a Trainline white label...

 

[Jim the Jim]

So providing something that is well covered by others and isn't needed. Good to see how GBR's priorities will operate.

Most people buy their tickets either from the TOCs (which won't exist) or Trainline (widely disliked by enthusiasts). So I think a replacement is needed.

Having a national rail service and not having the option of buying tickets from it directly online would be perverse.