Great British Railways livery: Alternative suggestions/variations

[thomalex]

Hi Folks, as some are aware - I challenged the DfT on the livery shenanigans; wrote them a letter, and asked the for a few notes regarding the Livery in terms of industry pride, accessibility, and operational effectiveness.

For those who are interested, this is their reply;

Heritage names, such as Great Western Railway, will be kept as regional identifiers in the brand.

This seems to be implying that your intercity services will take on the full GBR brand with consistent liveries nationwide, whereas regional services will be named differently, maybe even with different liveries (retaining the green for GWR for example).

This could be a happy medium of bringing consistency to the network while retaining some character.

 

[irish_rail]

Heritage names, such as Great Western Railway, will be kept as regional identifiers in the brand.

This seems to be implying that your intercity services will take on the full GBR brand with consistent liveries nationwide, whereas regional services will be named differently, maybe even with different liveries (retaining the green for GWR for example).

This could be a happy medium of bringing consistency to the network while retaining some character.

I read it as there will be no "intercity" brand as GWR etc brand names are being retained. I can't see them retaining GWR branding on the branch lines only, it'll be all or nothing. It's a shame in my view as would love to have seen a return of the Intercity brand.

 

[thomalex]

I read it as there will be no "intercity" brand as GWR etc brand names are being retained. I can't see them retaining GWR branding on the branch lines only, it'll be all or nothing. It's a shame in my view as would love to have seen a return of the Intercity brand.

Yes having looked through it again I think you're right.

How I'm seeing it is however they split up operations into different regions, these will likely carry a historic name (Such as GWR, or LNER) rather that use generic terms like Western or Eastern.

They will however very much be subordinate to the consistent GBR brand and livery, just a nod to the heritage of these routes. Although Great British Railways Great Western Railway is a bit of a mouthful.

I still like the idea of having regional services carrying more distinct identities though. A commuter train in say Leeds should look different from one in Bristol IMO.

 

[lkbergen]

Hi folks, first time posting here, some of you know me professionally, and other from other places.

Anyway posting here because, yes, I've done my own versions

There are two, the first is the Navy Blue main shell, of my own liking, and the second is a compromise between GBR's proposed livery, and my own, in white bodyshell.

Third image is of a FLIRT in the second version.

Credit to William John Lane of Train Sim FB group, who reskin an 80x an made it look grand!

Adding to this; I add the hypothetical -
"What if we refreshed ScotRail's visual identity, to line up with a LB/GBR Visual Identity?"

- RA2
- "SR Symbol 2" - new simplified logo/device
- retains ScotRail's iconic color pallete.

The idea; keeping a distinct brand, while also allowing cohesion with GBR VI.

I'm not saying that we *should* do this; ScotRail already has a very strong visual identity; it works well, has been well established amongst the wider Scottish passenger base.

My suggestion would be nice, and help the "one railway" idea.

 

[Chiltern006]

Rumoured that 387172 has been put into GBR livery at Lovers Walk

 

[Ellwill]

Rumoured that 387172 has been put into GBR livery at Lovers Walk

Getting it ready for the TSGN nationalisation press event next weekend, one would presume...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 May 2026 ==

Has now been caught on camera:
https://twitter.com/Off_The_RailsUK/status/2056703124606169377
Tweet: Short video showing an Electrostar EMU on third rail wearing a new GBR livery

Looks like everything will be branded as

Great British Railways | [TOC]

for now at least...

 

[Mainsideman]

Getting it ready for the TSGN nationalisation press event next weekend, one would presume...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 May 2026 ==

Has now been caught on camera:
https://twitter.com/Off_The_RailsUK/status/2056703124606169377
Tweet: Short video showing an Electrostar EMU on third rail wearing a new GBR livery

Looks like everything will be branded as

for now at least...

Or could this be the regional branding as in southern region?!

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Getting it ready for the TSGN nationalisation press event next weekend, one would presume...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 May 2026 ==

Has now been caught on camera:
https://twitter.com/Off_The_RailsUK/status/2056703124606169377
Tweet: Short video showing an Electrostar EMU on third rail wearing a new GBR livery

Looks like everything will be branded as

for now at least...

Looks like if Network SouthEast lasted into 2005 and New Labour tried to “modernise” it.

 

[thomalex]

Getting it ready for the TSGN nationalisation press event next weekend, one would presume...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 May 2026 ==

Has now been caught on camera:
https://twitter.com/Off_The_RailsUK/status/2056703124606169377
Tweet: Short video showing an Electrostar EMU on third rail wearing a new GBR livery

Looks like everything will be branded as

for now at least...

Or these could be regions. I can't imagine we'll get 'Great British Railways | Avanti' for instance.

I still hope this is an early prototype rather than the fully developed livery however. Those centre cars need to be just blue IMO, also I do think we need separate liveries for regional services distinct from intercity ones.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or these could be regions. I can't imagine we'll get 'Great British Railways | Avanti' for instance.

I doubt the Avanti name will survive nationalisation. I'd expect it to be West Coast.

 

[Snow1964]

I doubt the Avanti name will survive nationalisation. I'd expect it to be West Coast.

Which is a rather daft name in itself, because only about 50 miles of the 500-600 miles they operate are anywhere near the West Coast.

Of the remainder about 400-450 miles are inland by at least 10 miles (some of it over 100 miles from any coast), and 80 miles is north Wales coast.

 

[Zomboid]

I doubt the Avanti name will survive nationalisation. I'd expect it to be West Coast.

There's only one data point so far. From that, it could just as easily go to a set of brands based on the big 4.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2026 ==

If the flag nonsense were limited to the end cars, I don't hate the 387 livery for that kind of train.

I'd do something different for the pointy fronted stuff, though. Personally I think the LNER 800 design is very smart, and I'd colour code the red stripe by service group - have it green for GWML, blue for ECML and red for WCML, to pick historically relevant colours. Not sure what treatment pointy fronted but not IC trains (eg Flirts) would want though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ignoring the livery itself, I’m rather upset hat they don’t have the confidence to do as BR did and use only the double arrow for the brand identity.
“GBR” at the ends and the fully spelled out “Great British Railways” in the middle feel entirely redundant when we have the ‘rail symbol’ that is supposed to be representing the railway. Would be much cleaner with a bigger double arrow at the cabs and “=\= Southern” in the middle.

To me it's overbranded. The double arrow should appear only once per vehicle bodyside *at most*. It's like the way First liked to stick the F-in-circle everywhere.

Remove the BR logo and "GBR" from the red bit, it looks rubbish. Let the flag speak for itself.

Just have the logo and Southern in the middle of the end vehicles. Plain blue (or blue with some dark blue/purple accenting) on the intermediates. The text Great British Railways or GBR should not appear anywhere in the branding apart from on official documentation - the logo speaks for itself.

We also need a separate variant for each design of pointy-nose higher speed train that follows the shape of the nose. It looks rubbish having a curved nose with that harsh pointy flag. It would work on an HST though.

 

[Ellwill]

It's now rumoured that SWR have repainted one of their EMUs down in Bournemouth in full GBR for their press event on Friday. There's an STP ECS move from there to Wimbledon on the schedule for late Thursday evening...

Realtime Trains | 5Y53 2246 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 21/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 5Y53 2246 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 21/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Link: Realtime Trains schedule for 5Y53 Bournemouth Traincare > Wimbledon Park Depot, departing Thursday 21st May at 22:46.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another vote here for "not as bad as feared", though I agree it might look odd on odd carriage numbered units.

I really do think the intermediates should be just blue, or maybe the light blue with a bit of pointy accenting with just the dark blue so it doesn't just look like a copy of Lumo. Or maybe TPE style abstract pointy shapes rather than arrows pointing at one end.

Wonder if the yellow end will be applied to stock currently running without it?

I don't know but it'd look fine with a black nose too in my view.

 

[Ellwill]

It's now rumoured that SWR have repainted one of their EMUs down in Bournemouth in full GBR for their press event on Friday. There's an STP ECS move from there to Wimbledon on the schedule for late Thursday evening...

Realtime Trains | 5Y53 2246 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 21/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 5Y53 2246 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 21/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Link: Realtime Trains schedule for 5Y53 Bournemouth Traincare > Wimbledon Park Depot, departing Thursday 21st May at 22:46.

701 006 spotted at Branksome.

 

[Zomboid]

GBR South Western?

Not sure what value the "Arterio" branding is adding, but it's squashed the double arrow and "GBR" up higher.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it suits that unit, makes it look a bit less "toytown" than the SWR livery which I've never really liked.

 

[43096]

I think it suits that unit, makes it look a bit less "toytown" than the SWR livery which I've never really liked.

Agreed. The SWR livery is rubbish.

Not sure why they have retained the Arterio name. It’s just another bog standard commuter train - nothing special.

 

[Snow1964]

GBR South Western?

Not sure what value the "Arterio" branding is adding, but it's squashed the double arrow and "GBR" up higher.

Seems wrong for units intended to work on London suburban workings.

I always think of South West as Somerset, Devon and Cornwall, not a London suburb.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Or even 701s as 5 cars. Though it may be some time before anybody needs to worry about that.

As a matter of interest, what proportion of units do have an odd number of cars? (Not counting those run by Scotrail, Merseyrail, TfL and TfW or the open access operators)

 

[ash39]

As a matter of interest, what proportion of units do have an odd number of cars? (Not counting those run by Scotrail, Merseyrail, TfL and TfW or the open access operators)

Plenty of them, just off the top of my head...

LNER - 5 & 9 car 800/801
TPE - 3 car 185 and 5 car 802
XC - 5 car 221
Avanti - 5 & 7 car 80xs, 9 & 11 car 390s

It looks really awful on the 5-car 80x mock up. My solution would be to make the centre car of a unit with an odd number of vehicles plain, with the handed designs pointing towards it.

 

[Kite159]

Even with SWR, you have the 444s with 5 coaches and 159s with 3 coaches.

Would be better if the flag design was kept solely on the driving cabs, the intermediate coaches being a plain blue

 

[RUK]

As a matter of interest, what proportion of units do have an odd number of cars? (Not counting those run by Scotrail, Merseyrail, TfL and TfW or the open access operators)

Southeastern have 3-car Class 375/3s and 5-car Class 376s and Class 707s, and Southern have 3-car Class 171s and Class 377/3s, and also 5-car Class 377s. CrossCountry and EMR have 3-car Class 170s. WMR have 3-car Class 172/3s. Chiltern have 3-car Class 168/1s. Chiltern and GWR have 3-car Class 165s. GWR and Northern have 3-car Class 158s. Northern have 3-car Class 150/0s. Chiltern have the 5-car Mark 5A sets.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Plenty of them, just off the top of my head...

LNER - 5 & 9 car 800/801
TPE - 3 car 185 and 5 car 802
XC - 5 car 221
Avanti - 5 & 7 car 80xs, 9 & 11 car 390s

It looks really awful on the 5-car 80x mock up. My solution would be to make the centre car of a unit with an odd number of vehicles plain, with the handed designs pointing towards it.

Also classes 166, 323, 376, 444, 707, 720 and 730, Chiltern's mark 5A sets, and the remaining IC225 formations

and some members of classes 158, 165, 166, 168, 170, 171, 172, 175, 195, 331, 375, 377, 701 and 755


And what about Class 139 !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2026 ==

Chiltern have the 5-car Mark 5A sets.

... and how will that work? If you include the loco that's six vehicles, but the locos can be coupled to a set either way round so how will they be treated? (Same for GWR's class 57s)

 

[ash39]

Without doing the maths, there are probably as many odd-numbered sets running around the network than there are even-numbered sets.

I didn't realise when I wrote my last post but I could have made it more concice by saying 'Every LNER, Avanti & TPE set' ...

I wonder if LNER will bother with the 225 sets given they probably have a couple of years at best.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

As a matter of interest, what proportion of units do have an odd number of cars? (Not counting those run by Scotrail, Merseyrail, TfL and TfW or the open access operators)

For this, I am counting locos as per their typical full length, including Driving trailer and locomotive.

TOC	Units with odd number of carriages	Units with even number of carriages	Percentage odd (rounded to 1dp)
c2c	12 720 (5)	74 357 (4)	12/86 = 14.0%
Northern	8 150/0 (3) 8 158 (3) 16 170 (3) 33 195/1 (3) 34 323 (3) 31 331/0 (3)	41 150/1 (2) 25 150/2 (2) 7 155 (2) 67 156 (2) 56 158 (2) 25 195/0 (2) 12 331/1 (4) 16 333 (4) 8 769 (4)	130/387 = 33.6%
TPE	51 185 (3) 12 397 (5) 19 802 (5)	none	82/82 = 100%
Avanti	13 805 (5) 10 807 (7) 21 390/0 (9) 35 390/1 (11)	none	79/79 = 100%
EMR	33 810 (5) I have ignored 222s since there would be overlap with 810s as they leave/enter service 16 170 (3)	26 158 (2) 21 360 (4) 26 170 (2)	49/122 = 40.2%
CrossCountry	22 170 (3) 32 221 (5)	34 220 (4) 4 221 (4) 7 170 (2)	54/99 = 54.5%
LNWR/WMR	2 139 (1) 48 730/0 (3) 36 730/2 (5) 15 172 (3)	3 150 (2) 50 350 (4) 20 196 (2/4) - not counting Chiltern livery ones 24 172 (2)	101/198 = 51.0%
Greater Anglia	133 720 (5) 14 755/3 (3) - not counting powercar	20 745 (12) 24 755/4 (4) - not counting powercar	147/191 = 77.0%
LNER	11 91+Mk4+DVT (9) 13 800/1 (9) 10 800/2 (5) 12 801/1 (5) 30 801/2 (9)	none	76/76 = 100%
GWR (excluding sleeper since it's both due to carrying other loco between Paddington and Reading)	5 158 (3) 16 165 (3) 21 166 (3) 16 175 (3)	20 150 (2) 13 158 (2) 20 165 (2) 11 175 (2) 30 387 (4)	59/153 = 38.6%
Chiltern	11 165 (3) 9 168 (3)	14 68+Mk5a (5+1) 28 165 (2) 19 168 (2/4) 6 196 (2)	20/87 = 23.0%
Thameslink, Southern, Great Northern, Gatwick Express	13 171/2,8 (3) 28 377/3 (3) 34 377/6,7 (5)	4 171/7 (2) 154 377/1,2,4 (4) 30 379 (4) 65 387 (4) 25 717 (6) 115 700 (8/12)	75/468 = 16.0%
Southeastern	10 375/3 (3) 36 376 (5) 30 707 (5)	102 375/6,7,8,9 (4) 23 377 (4) 29 395 (6) 122 465 (4) 16 466 (2)	76/368 = 20.7%
South Western Railway	29 159 (3) 45 444 (5) 3 458/5 (5) 30 701/5 (5)	10 158 (2) 127 450 (4) 28 458/4 (4) 60 701/0 (10) 4 484 (2)	107/229 = 46.7%
Total	1067	1558	1067/2625 = 40.6%

Edit 1 22/05/2026 - EMR 170s were the wrong way round

 

[RUK]

755

The Class 755s will be interesting, due to the much shorter middle power car - especially what they choose to do on the Class 755/3s.

 

[norbitonflyer]

deleted - someone else just made the same point

 

[frankmoh]

Seems wrong for units intended to work on London suburban workings.

I always think of South West as Somerset, Devon and Cornwall, not a London suburb.

Under NSE you had places like Bedwyn, Exeter and Corby being tenuously included as "South East England"