Great British Railways: Branding options?

[Bletchleyite]

It reads like it'll be a 701 that gets the colours if they're talking about launching it on a commuter route - I guess the utilisation of those is so poor they don't have much of an issue keeping a couple out of sight for a couple of days to vinyl them up!

 

[Mrwerdna1]

Ironically, I think GBRf's 66780 has a livery which would look superb as GBR house colours and scheme.
Linked image is 66780 in GBRf "Cemex" garb

66780

GBRf 66780 'The Cemex Express' at Mortimer foot crossing working 4O69 Hams Hall to Southampton Western Docks.

www.flickr.com

Very nice! To be honest, that's probably about as good as you can get with a red, white and blue livery. The problem is, the odds are stacked against this new GBR livery turning out well, especially if they do decide to feature all three colours prominently. In that case, I think it may either turn out pretty dismal or look too similar to the NSE or LU liveries. Now, I happen to like the NSE livery, but many don't. And a livery reminiscent of the tube just wouldn't work, not because it couldn't look good, but largely due to the innate hatred of London that so many in this country have.

A look over at the continent also reveals that liveries prominently featuring red, white and blue are not that common and where they do exist, they're not that aesthetically pleasing in my humble opinion:

 

[Zomboid]

SWT had a good scheme with the red white & blue going on, IMO.
We'll see, if there is a train with a whole new paint job it might not remotely resemble what eventually gets rolled out anyhow.

 

[Sun Chariot]

SWT had a good scheme with the red white & blue going on, IMO.

I think a design taking inspiration from WAGN (linked image brings back memories of my daily commute in the 1990s) and SWT (attached), will still look contemporary and appealing.

317665

WAGN liveried class 317 no 665 at Harlow Town

www.flickr.com

 

[Bletchleyite]

The original Chiltern livery did red, white and blue fairly tastefully. As the two colours clash, I think the best way is for one of them to predominate and the other to just be a small, subtle, highlighting stripe. I have suggested above using the LNER livery but making the grey stripe under the main window band blue instead of grey, and you could perhaps do a reversed version (blue band, red stripe) for regional services.

 

[Mrwerdna1]

The original Chiltern livery did red, white and blue fairly tastefully. As the two colours clash, I think the best way is for one of them to predominate and the other to just be a small, subtle, highlighting stripe. I have suggested above using the LNER livery but making the grey stripe under the main window band blue instead of grey, and you could perhaps do a reversed version (blue band, red stripe) for regional services.

Strongly agree and I think the LNER idea is a great one. I can only hope the designers were thinking along those lines, i.e. allowing only one colour to dominate to avoid a potential clash. Only Sunday will tell.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Strongly agree and I think the LNER idea is a great one. I can only hope the designers were thinking along those lines, i.e. allowing only one colour to dominate to avoid a potential clash. Only Sunday will tell.

I think it will be (a) garish, and (b) not actually the final livery anyway. For extra points, I expect to see stuff stuck to the windows.

 

[jon0844]

I hope the logo will be fairly discreet, which seems more likely now Labour is in charge than if, say, Boris was still PM for the Tories or Reform had won the election.

We'd have seen union flags all over the rolling stock, and in the case of Reform winning, all trains with rainbows or 'thank you NHS' liveries would be sent for scrap...

 

[vuzzeho]

I hope it'll be tasteful. I hope it's not a red, white, and blue livery with a red, white, and blue logo. As for that logo - I'm not expecting anything crazy. I made a mockup of what I expect it to be. As for the livery/liveries - apparently it's a 701 and 444 getting liveries, so maybe 2 different liveries (and that's what's in-person - I've heard something with Manchester and Northern preparing for new branding but idk, and of course LNER could get in on the fun from afar). However, this new branding, and the mention of Southeastern becoming more integrated with track and train really makes me wonder - why are they repainting the 376s? Surely it would've been easier to hold off for like... 6 months, and then do the repaint into the GBR branding? Even if they wait until the legislation for GBR is done to repaint them, that's 2027. That gives this livery 2 years at the most. Same with LNER and the Bradford train, though that's a one-off vinyl.

 

[vuzzeho]

As mentioned in the C2C thread - here - C2C, Greater Anglia, and Network Rail Anglia are to be merged into 'Anglia Railways' later this year, mostly led by GA management. This bears a few questions:
Will the C2C and GA brands stay? They're both probably good enough to wear the GBR branding now, and with GA potentially sending C2C some 720s (not confirmed just rumoured) - surely the best way to avoid confusion would be to actually unify the branding?
With the SE and NR SE Region leadership merge, we got the brand South Eastern Railway. Now, this is Anglia Railways. These aren't permanent brands afaik but will GBR brand its subsectors under 'xxxx Railway'?

 

[ollyexe2808]

As mentioned in the C2C thread - here - C2C, Greater Anglia, and Network Rail Anglia are to be merged into 'Anglia Railways' later this year, mostly led by GA management. This bears a few questions:
Will the C2C and GA brands stay? They're both probably good enough to wear the GBR branding now, and with GA potentially sending C2C some 720s (not confirmed just rumoured) - surely the best way to avoid confusion would be to actually unify the branding?
With the SE and NR SE Region leadership merge, we got the brand South Eastern Railway. Now, this is Anglia Railways. These aren't permanent brands afaik but will GBR brand its subsectors under 'xxxx Railway'?

My leading theory (and it is just a theory obviously...) is that, following the passage of the Railways Bill (by approx March/April next year) there will be a desire to move to a unified brand amongst well performing TOCs, and the creation of Anglia Railways may mean some form of "GBR Anglia" sub brand or similar perhaps? It would seem Odd to rebrand to Anglia Railways and then a year or so later make it GBR, so either AR is going to be the backroom name for the combination of NRA, GA and C2C with GBR being the leading brand...or there is something else that they are considering.

 

[physics34]

My leading theory (and it is just a theory obviously...) is that, following the passage of the Railways Bill (by approx March/April next year) there will be a desire to move to a unified brand amongst well performing TOCs, and the creation of Anglia Railways may mean some form of "GBR Anglia" sub brand or similar perhaps? It would seem Odd to rebrand to Anglia Railways and then a year or so later make it GBR, so either AR is going to be the backroom name for the combination of NRA, GA and C2C with GBR being the leading brand...or there is something else that they are considering.

Could well use both... but hopefully one overall livery.

 

[Siimo]

I know how attached we are to colours evoking NSE, but surely a tweaked version of the current Southern livery would work nicely for a hypothetical 'GBR Southern Region' and has just as much if not more historical currency with malachite green. It looks nice on modern trains, hides dirt reasonably well and isn't jingoistic.
On that note, how many national railway companies around the world completely ignore their national flag colours? Denmark is silver and dark blue, Netherlands predominantly yellow with blue, Estonia is orange, Finland green and white, new Latvian trains black and yellow whilst old were blue white and yellow, Czechia white and two shades of blue, Chinese HSR white with blue band, Spain white with magenta band, Northern Ireland silver and blue etc.

 

[Class15]

I know how attached we are to colours evoking NSE, but surely a tweaked version of the current Southern livery would work nicely for a hypothetical 'GBR Southern Region' and has just as much if not more historical currency with malachite green. It looks nice on modern trains, hides dirt reasonably well and isn't jingoistic.
On that note, how many national railway companies around the world completely ignore their national flag colours? Denmark is silver and dark blue, Netherlands predominantly yellow with blue, Estonia is orange, Finland green and white, new Latvian trains black and yellow whilst old were blue white and yellow, Czechia white and two shades of blue, Chinese HSR white with blue band, Spain white with magenta band, Northern Ireland silver and blue etc.

I agree, the Southern livery is a classic and still looks incredible even after 20-25 years.

 

[Sorcerer]

On that note, how many national railway companies around the world completely ignore their national flag colours? Denmark is silver and dark blue, Netherlands predominantly yellow with blue, Estonia is orange, Finland green and white, new Latvian trains black and yellow whilst old were blue white and yellow, Czechia white and two shades of blue, Chinese HSR white with blue band, Spain white with magenta band, Northern Ireland silver and blue etc.

Then of course we have SNCF and Deutsche Bahn with their variety of liveries not incorporating the flag colour in their design. Off the top of my head the only two I can think of that do use flag colours are SBB and OBB with the red and white, and even then they're very common railway colours anyway. That said, I think GBR has kind of painted itself (no pun intend) into the flag branding with it's name and the logo being designed under a flag-waving government.

 

[physics34]

I know how attached we are to colours evoking NSE, but surely a tweaked version of the current Southern livery would work nicely for a hypothetical 'GBR Southern Region' and has just as much if not more historical currency with malachite green. It looks nice on modern trains, hides dirt reasonably well and isn't jingoistic.
On that note, how many national railway companies around the world completely ignore their national flag colours? Denmark is silver and dark blue, Netherlands predominantly yellow with blue, Estonia is orange, Finland green and white, new Latvian trains black and yellow whilst old were blue white and yellow, Czechia white and two shades of blue, Chinese HSR white with blue band, Spain white with magenta band, Northern Ireland silver and blue etc.

Just my opinion but im so bored of Southern livery. I think everything needs a refresh. Bring back stripes though.... all the revamps of the old liveries look soooo good, even with the door visibility requirements. Even Regional Railways beats most post Privatisation liveries!

Im not sure we know yet how the sectors are going to be split. I wouldnt be surprised if Southern and Southeastern came together... even maybe TL.

 

[Siimo]

Then of course we have SNCF and Deutsche Bahn with their variety of liveries not incorporating the flag colour in their design. Off the top of my head the only two I can think of that do use flag colours are SBB and OBB with the red and white, and even then they're very common railway colours anyway. That said, I think GBR has kind of painted itself (no pun intend) into the flag branding with it's name and the logo being designed under a flag-waving government.

DB liveries are based on a white/black/red historical German flag though; the same reason why their football teams typically have white with black as their home strip.
SNCF do use quite a lot of French blue generally, and the Duplex TGV and Paris RER are actually red/white/blue. The orange original TGV is dope though - given the era it was designed in, maybe literally.

Bring back stripes though....

This is literally every kit thread on the Southampton FC fan forum...

 

[Sorcerer]

DB liveries are based on a white/black/red historical German flag though; the same reason why their football teams typically have white with black as their home strip.

Interesting. Today I learned!

SNCF do use quite a lot of French blue generally, and the Duplex TGV and Paris RER are actually red/white/blue. The orange original TGV is dope though - given the era it was designed in, maybe literally.

I thought the entire TGV fleet under the InOui branding was now in the Carmillion livery which doesn't use blue. The Ouigo branded ones are also more of an aqua rather than French blue by the looks of it as well.

 

[signed]

I thought the entire TGV fleet under the InOui branding was now in the Carmillion livery which doesn't use blue.

Yes, blue isn't used on any TGV. Carmillon is SNCF's livery, likely because of the opening to competition and SNCF Voyageurs becoming a state-owned private company

Paris transport is different as this is the region that decided, following the same opening to competition that all the public transport in the region had to wear the same blue, black and grey livery

 

[43096]

On that note, how many national railway companies around the world completely ignore their national flag colours? Denmark is silver and dark blue

DSB’s current livery is predominantly red with dark grey elements.

 

[Sorcerer]

Paris transport is different as this is the region that decided, following the same opening to competition that all the public transport in the region had to wear the same blue, black and grey livery

I think I've seen that Il-de-France livery on concept arts for the Grand Paris Express. In relation to GBR I think that any future Crossrail projects should integrate the same livery as that on the Elizabeth Line. I like the variety on the RER but I think Great British Railways should definitely try to keep things as uniform as possible even if liveries are regionalised.

 

[HSTEd]

I know I am a boring old miser, but can we not just slap a plain coat of some dark colour over everything with contrasting doors and be done with it?

Unless we are very careful an intricate livery will just date very quickly.

Although I must admit I do wonder how BTC black and silver would look on modern trains (or black and grey?)

 

[43096]

I know I am a boring old miser, but can we not just slap a plain coat of some dark colour over everything with contrasting doors and be done with it?

Unless we are very careful an intricate livery will just date very quickly.

Although I must admit I do wonder how BTC black and silver would look on modern trains (or black and grey?)

Black is not a good idea given the heating effect within black-painted vehicles in sunny conditions. I agree we need something straightforward that will last.

 

[Siimo]

DSB’s current livery is predominantly red with dark grey elements.

That's pretty new then (or retro-revival). When I was there less than two years ago everything bar the Copenhagen S-Tog was still in grey and dark blue.

 

[43096]

That's pretty new then (or retro-revival). When I was there less than two years ago everything bar the Copenhagen S-Tog was still in grey and dark blue.

Yes, it is fairly new and the fleet is slowly being re-liveried. The Vectrons were delivered new in red and the other new deliveries (Talgo stock, Alstom EMUs) will also have it. Think there is a plan for the double-deck stock to be done as well.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

DB liveries are based on a white/black/red historical German flag though; the same reason why

DB colours are absolutely not based on the former flag of the German Empire! DB changed colour schemes many times (like local trains being turquoise and orange in the 90s). That the current one with white/red shares two colours with the old flag is a coincidence.

 

[Bletchleyite]

DB colours are absolutely not based on the former flag of the German Empire! DB changed colour schemes many times (like local trains being turquoise and orange in the 90s). That the current one with white/red shares two colours with the old flag is a coincidence.

Indeed. It's just the colour of the logo, basically.

As far as I can tell Verkehrsrot ("traffic red", the colour of a red traffic light I think) is just a house colour they started using when in the late 90s they stopped having different coloured window bands for each class of train (which were, from memory, pinky-purple for IC, light blue for IR, pastel green for regional and orange for S-bahn, though there were some regional variations on the latter). The ICE was originally a two colour pinky-purply stripe, changing to red when they changed that, and black isn't traditionally part of the livery, it's just that the design of ICE units has traditionally had ribbon glazing, though I think they did retain the stripe on ICE4s which do have traditional separate windows.

 

[DJ_K666]

What will they rename Southern to? Will be a hell of a rebranding operation.

Just combine the former South Eastern, Southern and SWR to make a new Southern Region with Wester, Central and Eastern divisions. Thameslink becomes InterRegional between the Southern, Midland and Eastern Regions.

Gatwick Express returns to being Gatwick Airport to Vic non stop-shuttles. I'll stop short of suggesting class 73/2s mk2s and GLVs though, although that would be the greatest.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2025 ==

Indeed. It's just the colour of the logo, basically.

As far as I can tell Verkehrsrot ("traffic red", the colour of a red traffic light I think) is just a house colour they started using when in the late 90s they stopped having different coloured window bands for each class of train (which were, from memory, pinky-purple for IC, light blue for IR, pastel green for regional and orange for S-bahn, though there were some regional variations on the latter). The ICE was originally a two colour pinky-purply stripe, changing to red when they changed that, and black isn't traditionally part of the livery, it's just that the design of ICE units has traditionally had ribbon glazing, though I think they did retain the stripe on ICE4s which do have traditional separate windows.

So what's the White with the red stripe?

 

[Bald Rick]

DB colours are absolutely not based on the former flag of the German Empire! DB changed colour schemes many times (like local trains being turquoise and orange in the 90s). That the current one with white/red shares two colours with the old flag is a coincidence.

I thought it is predominately white with red lines in honour of who beat them in the 1966 World Cup Final.

 

[Mgameing123]

I thought it is predominately white with red lines in honour of who beat them in the 1966 World Cup Final.

Nah they are just trying to make a knock off version of DSB. They even copied our colour scheme!