Graphical Timetables

[GordonT]

Does every stretch of Network Rail's operational railway have its timetable represented in graphical form? To what extent do temporary timetable changes feature in graphical form?

 

[306024]

In theory it could, the planning software used for timing can present the schedule data in graphical form. You can call a graph up to see the data for a given day which could include short term variations. Don’t know whether anyone has bothered to graph the Romford - Upminster service though.

Quite how far the use of graphs extends outside the planning world in the UK I’m not so sure. Never known controllers or signallers request to see a graph, unlike some other countries where you can see the graph in the signal box.

It does take a trained eye to be able to read and use them correctly though. A graph of London Bridge for example would look somewhat complex.

 

[Ianno87]

Planning systems can be used to create any train graph you like. If a route doesn't exist, it can be created relatively easily.

Only application of train graphs outside timetabling that I can think of is that they are used to represent the timetable in some Traffic Management systems.

 

[Eloise]

I haven't found many lines of routes that don't have a graph in the system. If there's a gap we can create one, takes a few minutes to a few days depending on complexity of line. And then another few years to get your colours right on it for different lines when you are more than two-track.

Romford - Upminster does exist as a graph.

Each graph can show all days of the week, one day of the week or one individual day. We can show just WTT services or what is actually running on any given day. Or both, but that's pretty meaningless.

 

[306024]

Romford - Upminster does exist as a graph.

Only question is why? If you can’t timetable that then no graph is going to save you. But I guess if you are training folks it’s a good introduction to the principles involved.

Having drawn timetable graphs manually with graph paper on a sloping desk designed for graphing it is interesting to see how all this new(ish) technology is used.

 

[Eloise]

All lines of route have a graph, or should have. Why? Certainly in NR it is our responsibility to ensure the timetable is compliant, always worth a check the operator hasn't got it wrong, not unheard of. Plus there is likely to be a test train down there at some point so will need checking nothing else is running, or if it is you know which train need cancelling. Plus the graph can show possessions so a quick way to check nothing is foul of a block.

All trainees should do a hand drawn graph at some point though it obviously much slower. The days of A3 paper, rule, pens and Tippex are probably gone though.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

As an outsider I would have thought, when trying to fit in an extra path on a single track route (with passing loops), that looking at a graph is easier than looking at a timetable bank. Far easier to spot the potentials / problems? As they say, a picture paints a thousand words.

Go on, tell me that modern software does it in a microsecond!

 

[Ianno87]

Only question is why? If you can’t timetable that then no graph is going to save you. But I guess if you are training folks it’s a good introduction to the principles involved.

Technically, you need to validate the turnround times and dwell time at Emerson Park

 

[The Planner]

As an outsider I would have thought, when trying to fit in an extra path on a single track route (with passing loops), that looking at a graph is easier than looking at a timetable bank. Far easier to spot the potentials / problems? As they say, a picture paints a thousand words.

Go on, tell me that modern software does it in a microsecond!

You still need a Mk1 eyeball in most cases.

 

[Romsey]

You still need a Mk1 eyeball in most cases.

Agreed.
Even with all the modern technology, things still go wrong. ( Remember, the output is only as good as the input.)
Certain possession planners with timetable experience have been known to manually graph the plan published in TSDB. It often shows up what has been overlooked .

 

[CW2]

In some instances (mostly overseas) graphs are used in Control offices, both to plan very short term alterations to the service, and to record the actual running of trains.

 

[Romsey]

The FR and WHR and the Ravenglass use graphs in their control/ despatchers locations. Details of late running and altered crosses used to be endorsed on the graph for that day. Special workings were drawn onto the graph before it was used.

 

[sjoh]

Could someone clarify what a graph might look like for a given example for those of us not in the know?

 

[306024]

Figure 2 in this link gives you some idea.

http://www.railway-technical.com/operations/working-timetable.html

 

[30907]

Figure 2 in this link gives you some idea.

http://www.railway-technical.com/operations/working-timetable.html

Or if you have a few hours, try Switzerland:
https://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/en/archives/train-graphs.html
(the English label is slightly misleading, it's routes not individual trains).

 

[306024]

Or if you have a few hours, try Switzerland:
https://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/en/archives/train-graphs.html
(the English label is slightly misleading, it's routes not individual trains).

That’s a great link thanks. Plenty of studying to do there.

 

[edwin_m]

I seem to recall reading that Traffic Management Systems can produce graphs projecting the service minutes and hours into the future based on the current situation and the effect of a particular course of action.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The default of train planning seems to be moving towards editing a timetable via a graphical interface. Personally I’m not a fan, my mind works in tables and headways, not visual lines. Not very easy to plan complex station workings purely on a graph either, the bar-chart approach is unbeatable imo.

 

[Ianno87]

The default of train planning seems to be moving towards editing a timetable via a graphical interface. Personally I’m not a fan, my mind works in tables and headways, not visual lines. Not very easy to plan complex station workings purely on a graph either, the bar-chart approach is unbeatable imo.

There are definitely "graph" planners and "table" planners!

 

[Eloise]

There are and it depends how you were taught to some extent. I prefer graphs but could do tables and TRUST but find those less natural.

Upminster - Romford does exist, very tidy graph it is too validation wise! Took all of 30 seconds to run over it.

 

[zwk500]

There are and it depends how you were taught to some extent. I prefer graphs but could do tables and TRUST but find those less natural.

Agreed. I never really used tables properly, but did use the platform chart fairly often. Once I'd worked out how to do station-specific line colours I switched to using the graph for stations as it gave margins on crossing moves. Can do TRUST but again find it less intuitive than the graph.

The shorter graphs are often important to check! You never know when something's been stuck on a chord to get it out of the way.

 

[Class 170101]

The default of train planning seems to be moving towards editing a timetable via a graphical interface. Personally I’m not a fan, my mind works in tables and headways, not visual lines. Not very easy to plan complex station workings purely on a graph either, the bar-chart approach is unbeatable imo.

Platform graphs are simple to use but other than that prefer to work with timetables rather than graphical lines.

 

[Romsey]

There are definitely "graph" planners and "table" planners!

I agree with that but sometimes one method is easier than the other.
For example West of Salisbury graphing is much the easiest method, even if it a WTT graph print to thread additional trains through. Graphing seems needlessly complex for a double track mainline.
Bar charts for major stations are really the business, and however produced and formatted make the job much easier.
Unless everything is shown and noticed, sooner or later a planner will trip up on a shunt ECS swapping sides somewhere unexpected. So that means ( on the Southern anyway) checking the Carriage Working Notices.

PS Anyone from MK or Waterloo and remember "Blobby" and his "worry charts" for platform workings? I could never follow those, but somehow he seemed to make the station plan work!

 

[Eloise]

Blobby is still around but alas no longer does platforming.

 

[Romsey]

Blobby is still around but alas no longer does platforming.

Thanks. I'll catch up with him one of these days.