Grangemouth & West Fife linking

[Dennyboy]

As fears abound of Low Usage to proposed reopening of Grangemouth Passenger Services (inc' Station), has condideration ever been given to connecting it via a dual-chord to the West Fife Line? I appreciate the navigational height issues for Container Shipping/manouevrability but dry land north of proposed station would accommodate a NW sweep nearer Kincardine. 'Alloa-Dunfermline under-capacity issues also resolved as would be pressure on Forth Bridge.

 

[30907]

I don't know the area well, so what would be the principal traffic flows if a new route Falkirk-Dunfermline were created?

 

[Dennyboy]

'Predicted usage? Those Fife-Falkirk (& beyond either/each way) movements where present cross-Forth movements do not require to service intermediate stations of the latter. I consider that there is a viable demand for traffic which could also relieve the Forth Bridge of capacity issues.

 

[waverley47]

I don't really understand the plan or the need.

Are you proposing building a railway or causeway across the Forth between Grangemouth and Longannet? Or a more sweeping line curving round towards Larbert? Technically you could run trains from Dunfermline, through Alloa, Stirling and Falkirk to Grangemouth today if you wanted, albeit you'd need some heavy investment to enable those trains to carry passengers.


Firstly, it would be useful if you could begin with what need have you identified for a particular service?

Then, is a rail service necessary to provide for the need you have identified, and is this proposal a way to adequately provide said rail service?

And finally, why is this the best way to provide a service for this niche you have identified?

After that we'll have a better idea of what's being proposed and what it offers.

 

[Dennyboy]

I don't really understand the plan or the need.

Are you proposing building a railway or causeway across the Forth between Grangemouth and Longannet? Or a more sweeping line curving round towards Larbert? Technically you could run trains from Dunfermline, through Alloa, Stirling and Falkirk to Grangemouth today if you wanted, albeit you'd need some heavy investment to enable those trains to carry passengers.


Firstly, it would be useful if you could begin with what need have you identified for a particular service?

Then, is a rail service necessary to provide for the need you have identified, and is this proposal a way to adequately provide said rail service?

And finally, why is this the best way to provide a service for this niche you have identified?

After that we'll have a better idea of what's being proposed and what it offers.

My initial interest in linking Grangemouth with West Fife stemmed from the closeness of the WF line. On reflection container-shipping may understandably pre-empt bridge construction in the immediate locality. Therefore a slight westwards curve approaching (already road-bridged) Kincardine may be involved were said shipping to remain unhindered. 'Fair play' to bus/coach provision Fife-Falkirk movements are significantly catered for. Yet Grangemouth's remoteness from this corridor may justify investment capable of doubling patronage forecasts ie upgrading Grangemouth's status from that of 'a final destination' thus reducing sole reliance.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I don't know the area well, so what would be the principal traffic flows if a new route Falkirk-Dunfermline were created?

Might be handy for transporting supporters to/from the (four) Falkirk v Dunfermline Athletic fixtures scheduled in the SPFL Championship (two at the Falkirk Stadium, and two at East End Park) but apart from that I'm struggling.

 

[Dennyboy]

Yeah, in a way, such passenger movements need only constitute niche demand eg Skinflats & (via a double-chord) Kincardine, fulfillable via bus-connections nearer Falkirk TC. As existing cross-Forth movements (eg freight) from 'the Grange' have to cross trackpoints and change direction west of Laurieston, the current chord-arrangement appears to favour Glasgow-bound movements. Even discounting my prohibitively expensive 'upstream Forth crossing' I'm hopeful that undeveloped land SE of Laurieston be utilised to upgrade/dual the existing rail-chord. All that said, traffic-volume on the already 'stretched' Forth Bridge remains an issue and devoid of potential diversionary routes. I appreciate your prompt response to my long held area/s of interest. Lastly, no other dept' I've approached from an enthusiast's viewpoint could enlighten me on difficulties on electrifying services routed via current Forth Bridge eg headroom, architectural infringement etc. Perhaps you could satisfy me.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Oct 2024 ==

PS I mean't to also include the existing rail-chord on spare-ground separating W Dunfermline from E Rosyth. Yet I suppose that freight movements between West Fife & Burntisland/Kircaldy could be met by reversing within Dunfermline.

 

[waverley47]

Upon reading your two newer messages, I think I understand better what you're suggesting.

Is there a need? Grangemouth/Falkirk to Fife demand is not really catered for directly, but ultimately, there's not really a demand there. Falkirk isn't going to have strong economic ties (the government term for where people commute to work) to Fife.

Any passengers without cars will probably change at Edinburgh, which isn't a difficult or long change, and there are plenty of alternatives for driving. Most of the people going between Fife and the Forth Valley will drive over one of the bridges. I'm not sure you could make enough people add up to an hourly service, which is the minimum of what you need to justify to build a new railway.

Building a new rail bridge over the Forth isn't here or there; it would be possible but horrendously expensive. If you had a couple of billion burning a hole in your pocket, you wanted to spend some money to connect these two areas, and you were convinced rail was the way to do it, then there are other things that would help. Just extending the Alloa trains through to Dunfermline, and extending the Grahamston terminators to a new station at Grangemouth would probably tick all of the boxes.

This goes into the box of "in terms of pure engineering there is nothing that makes this impossible, but you'd never build it because the need isn't there"

 

[Kingston Dan]

My understanding is the demand is Grangemouth to Edinburgh and the junction faces the wrong way. If you were prepared to build a chord from the line to the Grahamston - Polmont line you would probably get a worthwhile service (perhaps with a stop at the Falkirk Stadium). But you'd have to build the chord on a viaduct and almost certainly demolish an small industrial estate.