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Grangemouth Electrification

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Legolash2o

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Hi,

Does anyone know the mileage limit of the Grangemouth electrification please? or is it the entire route?

Thanks.
 
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Legolash2o

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Hey,

Yeah I saw but then I thought, how would the trains get from the yard to that section? Hybrid locomotive (Electric-Diesel)?
 

59CosG95

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Hey,

Yeah I saw but then I thought, how would the trains get from the yard to that section? Hybrid locomotive (Electric-Diesel)?
From the Malcolm Group terminal (near Fouldubs Jn), the Docks, or the Oil Terminal?
The one time an 88 used the Malcolm Terminal, it ran along part of the electrified siding, then reversed into the Terminal.
 

Legolash2o

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All of the locations on that line.

Your 2nd sentence was a good example, thanks.
 

ScottDarg

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From the Malcolm Group terminal (near Fouldubs Jn), the Docks, or the Oil Terminal?
The one time an 88 used the Malcolm Terminal, it ran along part of the electrified siding, then reversed into the Terminal.

Quick correction on the terminal;

The 88-hauled service ran into the Forth Ports sidings and the DRS Daventry service continues to use those currently. They're nearer the quayside and pointed out here:
1596921593400.png

Those sidings weren't really used prior to the Forth Ports / Stobart service starting which is what caused the issue with the 88s on that service - the line had become overgrown and both 88s that went down it came back out with branches caught in the pantographs. Ever since they have used 66s on it.

The issue with the Malcolm sidings DB use is that a diesel is still required for shunting within the terminal, so it's easier to use a 66 throughout.

Despite being wired there's currently no booked electric-hauled freight into Grangemouth unfortunately. If anything it says a lot about the issue with increasing the amount of electric hauled freight - you can wire the line up the the gates, but those wires aren't likely to be used unless a solution to shunting in the loading area is found...
 
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InOban

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Which is the point of the class 88 which can shunt the train into the sidings?
Surely the issue is that the 88s belong to DRS while another freight TOC has the Malcolm contract. I feel it will be necessary for some 'encouragement' to make the TOCs acquire/lease bimode locos.
 

Philip Phlopp

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you can wire the line up the the gates, but those wires aren't likely to be used unless a solution to shunting in the loading area is found...

Clayton and Beacon Rail have a plan in mind for that. 15 x CBD90 battery hybrid shunters on order.
 

ScottDarg

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Which is the point of the class 88 which can shunt the train into the sidings?
Surely the issue is that the 88s belong to DRS while another freight TOC has the Malcolm contract. I feel it will be necessary for some 'encouragement' to make the TOCs acquire/lease bimode locos.

100% agree - bi-mode locos (be it diesel or some other propulsion method) should be encouraged otherwise they should be looking at possible shunt locos, which looks to be an up and coming thing based on Philip Phlopp's response.

Seeing a larger number of electric-hauled freights would be great and it's something I've been hoping to see since Grangemouth was wired - but it's just taking time to get there it seems.

Clayton and Beacon Rail have a plan in mind for that. 15 x CBD90 battery hybrid shunters on order.

I'd seen some images of new Clayton shunters being built for Tata Steel but hadn't seen news of the larger order of 15 - good to hear. I see from an article on the Railfreight news site that the Mossend expanion includes these, so hopefully Forth Ports / Malcolm also take an interest for Grangemouth.
 
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Class 170101

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Electric Freight also allows greater trailing weight in existing Class 66 timings at 1200 tonnes.
 

Mollman

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So to clarify, with the 88 hauled DRS services, do they swap locos at Mossend?

For those interested in the shunters:
https://www.railfreight.com/busines...into-electric-future-with-beacon/?gdpr=accept
A name very much from the British engineering past shunts firmly into the future with a deal to supply hybrid motive power for multinational leasing company. Clayton Equipment, the only British independent heavy locomotive manufacturer, has agreed a contract with Beacon Rail Leasing for the supply of fifteen of its CBD90 hybrid locomotives, along with options for a period of three years.


The distinctive locomotives are a popular and hard-to-get piece of modern kit. Clayton says the deal with Beacon will let UK customers get their hands on the CBD90, realising commercial benefits from reduced costs and lead time.

Clayton-shunter-at-TaTa-Port-Talbot-Clayton.png
Hybrid and battery shunters designed by Clayton are already in operation, such as here at Port Talbot Steel Works in Wales
In one form or another, Clayton has been around for the best part of a century, but the CBD90 represents the very latest from the Burton-on-Trent manufacturer. At 90 tonnes, it is a heavy-weight addition to the fleet, and the largest locomotive built in the UK in over 20 years.

Emission free solutions
The unit is self-contained, with onboard battery charging from a low emission, EU Stage V compliant diesel engine, or, as Clayton says, “from a three-phase supply, providing 100 per cent emission free solutions.”

“This unique agreement is a significant milestone in the company’s history and provides a major growth opportunity for Clayton Equipment”, said Clive Hannaford, managing director at Clayton. “Beacon has extensive rail asset expertise which will help ensure the two companies maximise the potential to supply our customer base with sustainable, low emission, environmentally compliant equipment.”

High demand and waiting list
The deal comes at a time when demand is significant for alternative fuelled shunting capability. Currently under construction in Scotland, the Mossend International Railfreight Park will be served by a compliment of battery-powered shunters, supplied by Clayton.

Sources close to both that project and the manufacturer told RailFreight.com that demand had “gone through the roof”, especially since the UK government and the devolved administration in Scotland had set challenging targets for rendering the economy carbon-neutral. Unconfirmed claims say the order book has gone from an on demand basis to a three year waiting list, almost overnight.

Long history
Clayton has a long history of involvement with the UK rail industry. That relationship goes right back to the 1960s, when Clayton was a major player in the transition from steam to diesel power on the network. Their distinctive class 17 locomotives were a common sight in the north of England and in the Scottish Borders.

Bewdley_-_D8568_arriving_from_Kidderminster-Geof-Sheppard-.jpg
Clayton is often synonymous with its early diesel design for British Rail. Some of the Class 17 locomotives have made it into heritage railway use – such as this example on the Severn Valley Railway in Worcestershire. The new CBD90 shunter is more powerful than this former mainline motive power. (image Geof Sheppard – WikiCommons)
Just as distinctive, but much more technologically advanced, the CBD90 could well be just as common a sight. Adam Cunliffe, CEO of Beacon, said they were working in a fast-changing environment. “The increased demand for lower emissions, new technology, more capacity and cost-effective assets, Beacon is pleased to be able to form this new partnership with Clayton Equipment which will serve to meet this demand.”

The multinational Beacon Rail Leasing has a current portfolio of 346 locomotives, 1000 freight wagons, and 575 passenger train vehicles and intercity coaches on lease across Europe. Nothing on the books though is quite as venerable as a shunter that is being resurrected by a smaller, newer, UK firm. There is new life promised for a design that pre-dates even Clayton itself.

08 conversion kit
If a brand new loco is beyond budget, maybe this recondition classic could fit the bill.

Class_08_08801_D3969_6833336546-Peter-Broster-wikiCommons.jpg
This example has not lasted, but several Class 08 shunters are still in operation, nearly a century after the prototype design first rolled out. Now one is being covered to hybrid operation with battery technology straight out of a twenty-first century Tesla factory. (WikiCommons)
Meteor Power, better know for electric motorbikes that would not look out of place in a Tom Cruise movie, are currently working on a conversion that has been over sixty years in the making. The once ubiquitous shunter, the con-rod coupled 0-6-0 “class 08”, owes its design to the days of Art Deco. Even so, some of the over 1000 derivatives are still in service today. One is being converted to battery-diesel operation, incorporating technology from Tesla – the founder of which was not born when the first “08” rolled out – and neither were his parents.

It’s a far cry from pioneering, low power diesel units. The only class 17 Claytons still rolling are on model railways. Yet, while they may be small, and a little lacking in power, they are almost maintenance free and reliable – and fully battery powered – just like their new big brothers.
 

Mollman

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Nope - 66 hauled all the way to and from Daventry. The Class 88's only worked the inaugural services - it's been Class 66 throughout since.

Example of the service from as recently as 01/08/20 and taken near Garstang in Northern England: https://flic.kr/p/2jrVbLy
Ah ok, I only ever see 88s plus other operator's 90s but I suppose there are quite a few Mossend services now.
 

Richard Scott

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What am I missing here? Why can't an 88 be used and then use its diesel for the last stretch? Sorry if been answered earlier. 88s do seem underutilised, maybe someone can put me straight on that?
 

ScottDarg

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Ah ok, I only ever see 88s plus other operator's 90s but I suppose there are quite a few Mossend services now.

The Mossend / Coatbridge services are mostly electric hauled - the only ones I can think of that aren't are those heading North to Inverness, the Mossend to Dagenham cars (changing back to Electrics soon apparently), the cement to Clitheroe, the service to Tees Dock and a trip service to Grangemouth.

It just seems to be Grangemouth having difficulty with attracting electric traction despite the wires. However, hopefully some solution - like the Clayton shunters - is implemented to encourage a change to electrics.
 
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ScottDarg

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What am I missing here? Why can't an 88 be used and then use its diesel for the last stretch? Sorry if been answered earlier. 88s do seem underutilised, maybe someone can put me straight on that?

The 2 88s that traversed the overgrown branch into the docks area ended up with branches tangled in the pantographs (even when running on diesel) which caused issues when they got the electrified sections. No idea if they've since cut back the vegetation, but the continued use of a Class 66 suggests not (or they're just being careful).

88s in general are seeing greater usage than they did in their first few months as DRS now have a more intermodal services into Mossend. They also see some use on the nuclear flask workings to Sellafield. They were proposed for the Dagenham to Garston service, but were withdrawn after one return service due to issues with buffer clearances on the tight curves at the Garston terminal (if I remember rightly)
 

Richard Scott

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The 2 88s that traversed the overgrown branch into the docks area ended up with branches tangled in the pantographs (even when running on diesel) which caused issues when they got the electrified sections. No idea if they've since cut back the vegetation, but the continued use of a Class 66 suggests not (or they're just being careful).

88s in general are seeing greater usage than they did in their first few months as DRS now have a more intermodal services into Mossend. They also see some use on the nuclear flask workings to Sellafield. They were proposed for the Dagenham to Garston service, but were withdrawn after one return service due to issues with buffer clearances on the tight curves at the Garston terminal (if I remember rightly)
Thank you for the information, much appreciated.
 
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