Grand Central's New MD - An Introduction

[Pathfinder]

I have just read the latest news on the Grand Central website and it has a letter from the new MD Tom Clift on it,after reading it i am most impressed by what he has to say,nice to read a bit of "honesty" for a change.I have spoken with a couple of Grand Central employees recently and they say he comes across as more of "hands on" type of person,one actually said he was a "do'er" rather than a "sayer " !

 

[Coxster]

Just a quick note to say that I have removed, errrrm, every reply that was posted to this thread as they were mostly just arguments about something that no longer mattered as the original post had all the relevant abbreviations taken out anyway!

Take two everybody

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

I agree, I have met Tom and he seems to be the right man for the job now, certainly a do-er as you say.

 

[Pathfinder]

Cheers Coxster,I agree,it had got rather silly after my original post !

 

[rail-britain]

the right man for the job now, certainly a do-er

Strange I overheard something similar about myself...
"Yes, he certainly is the right man for the job as he is a do-er
He'll do you for anything"

 

[Tom]

Were you near any red lights at the time ...

 

[rail-britain]

Over the last few months I have been involved in taking some employees for prosecution
I seem to be getting a reputation
Also known as "The silent assassin"
There is nothing worse than finding dishonest members of staff, that pocket YOUR money
I'm not a Loss Prevention Officer for nothing!

Just last week I purchased a return ticket, knew what the fare was so handed over the exact monies
I was handed a ticket that had been printed several hours earlier, even though it was just after 09:00
I then asked for a receipt and the member of staff scrabbled around to find one!
That'll be another member of ScotRail ticketing staff up for disciplinary...
No doubt one of many recently suspended and prosecuted for fraud

 

[djw1981]

What has that to do with this topic?

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

exactly. and I though RPIs were sneaky b*******!

 

[rail-britain]

What has that to do with this topic?

It's an evolving conversation
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

exactly. and I though RPIs were sneaky

I'm not a RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector?), one of my jobs is as a Loss Prevention Officer
However, this includes identifying and reporting on dishonest members of staff
Do you think it is right that a member of staff should keep the money you paid for goods or services, rather than the employer?
There are so many methods used; skimming, collusion, cash converting, etc.
If I pay £100 in train fares, then I expect £100 of that to be received by the train companies (although in reality that's not how it works!)

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

I thought RPIs were sneaky, but it seems that LPOs are even sneakier
I don't think it's right that dishonest staff should be able to pocket reasonable sums of money, and it does need to be stamped on, but surely there are better ways of detecting and catching those involved.
When in Melbourne a couple of years ago, I purchased a "two hour 'metcard' " that they use over there for the trains/trams/busses, and it had been printed that morning, and it was after lunch when I handed over my dollars!! (this was at a ticket window too)

 

[rail-britain]

Grand Central Trains latest Press Release 19 November doesn't paint a good picture
Just one operational HST and even that needs "re-working"

Their current rail licence runs until expiry with the next timetable change
If they do not have a service up and running by that date the ORR agreement is nul and void

Would it be worth them running even a limited basic service so as not to have to go through the entire process all over again?!

http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/timetable.html
One train a day, due to commence shortly

M-F
06:46 Sunderland - KX
14:10 York - KX
11:27 KX- York
16:50 KX - Sunderland

Sat
06:53 Sunderland - KX
14:05 York - KX
11:27 KX- York
16:50 KX - Sunderland

Sun
13:42 Sunderland - KX
18:20 KX - Sunderland

 

[BOSCH]

Grand Central Trains latest Press Release 19 November doesn't paint a good picture
Just one operational HST and even that needs "re-working"

Their current rail licence runs until expiry with the next timetable change
If they do not have a service up and running by that date the ORR agreement is nul and void

But that assumes the ORR have not already been asked for or even agreed an extension !!

 

[devon_metro]

Grand Central Trains latest Press Release 19 November doesn't paint a good picture
Just one operational HST and even that needs "re-working"

What I have heard would suggest things are fine at GC

 

[rail-britain]

But that assumes the ORR have not already been asked for or even agreed an extension !!

Sadly round the other way from my contact at the ORR
At the end of last week yhey had sent a final notice to Grand Central requesting final confirmation if they will be able to meet their commitment to their S17 application, to have a full public service in place by 08 December
It is not possible to make an extension to a S17 application, it simply expires and a new application has to be submitted, and that could take several months to have a replacement in place

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

m8internet, I think your "contact" at the ORR is pulling your chain! If he knows that you are asking for info about GC, then he could (and so it seems he is) be telling you anything just to get you to go away.

 

[djw1981]

Surely though if it is the same paperwork being submitted for the second application, and the WTT is designed for the GC services to have paths, then the paperwork approval will be quicker the second time round, if there are n alterations (except the date)

 

[rail-britain]

The resubmission itself is simple enough
However, the same time limits apply
Also there are different passenger franchise companies along the ECML now
Whereas it was Virgin Trains and GNER this would now be Arriva and NatEx
NatEx wouldn't be to happy at the KX - York only service, after all the premise of the service is KX - Sunderland

 

[Tom]

Sadly round the other way from my contact at the ORR
At the end of last week yhey had sent a final notice to Grand Central requesting final confirmation if they will be able to meet their commitment to their S17 application, to have a full public service in place by 08 December
It is not possible to make an extension to a S17 application, it simply expires and a new application has to be submitted, and that could take several months to have a replacement in place

Having said that, I would have thought that the ORR would have some common sense and see the difficulties that GC have been going through, what with GNERs arguments and the rolling stock issue. You can hardly tell someone "even because you didn't start by X because of health and safety certifications which is actually our problem, we're withdrawing your licence".

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Exactly Tom. A lot of the problems stem from Marcroft being a bit slow off the mark, and then NR insisting we carry out certain tests before we can start the final training runs...
There are a lot of doubters out there (and on here), but there are also a lot of supporters out ther (and again, on here), and the doubters will be proved wrong. We have already run one of our trains into KGX, much to the delight of many and the consternation of some others (I'll leave it up to you to guess who...)

 

[djw1981]

To put the other side of the coin Sir Clag, (and I must say I;m ambivalent about the service - as a black n white Tynesider I feel Sunderland doesn't deserve the service, but as an HST fan it;s great to see more of them in the North east) the choice of Marcroft was an unusual one, and in choosing them, GC set in motion some of the later problems.

Whilst companies such as Wabtec (to name but one) may have had fairly full order books, the finished result may have been reached at a point earlier than that which Marcroft will achieve, although the Marcroft initial bid may have been cheaper / shorter timescale than others.

 

[91101]

djw, can I ask what you mean when you say you feel that the service isn't "deserved"? Although I live in Seaham, I'm Newcastle through and through, but my patriotism for my home town must emerge in saying that, Sunderland, and Hartlepool have in successive years been let down very badly by the SRA, DfT and more recently Nexus.

In 2003 Sunderland had a roughly two hourly service to Liverpool Lime Street, the hourly service Middlesbrough-Newcastle, and an hourly Hartlepool - Newcastle.

The SRA cut funding for the Sunderland-Hartlepool section, but the half hourly frequency was retained, but turned back at Sunderland.

The SRA specified the TPE franchise was to NOT serve Sunderland but focus on the core NCL/MBR/SCA/HUL-MAN/MIA/LIV service instead.

The DfT allowed Nexus to cut funding to Northern so that the Sunderland turnbacks were taken off completely. This in turn meant that Sunderland lost the 06:00, 06:30, 07:00 (ex Seaham O6:50) , the 06:00 inpartcular which provided vital connections into the 06:25 NCL-GLC and 06:30 NCL-KGX. The 05:52 Metro Service to Newcastle Airport can NORMALLY connect into these, but is much less likely to do so, and doesn't officially connect anyway. The legislation the the DfT introduced, allowed PTEs to CUT rail funding and retain those funds for other purposes. (Previously it would have been paid back to the treasury I presume), Nexus promised to utilse the funding to revamp Sunderland station. No work has yet commenced, and the services were withdrawn in 2005, two years ago! This also means that Sunderland has lost its through services to Carlisle, as the Sunderland turnbacks were an extension of the current NCL-CAR trains, the most vital part of that was that when combined with the Middlesbrough-Hexham trains gave a 2TPH frequency on Sunderland-Metrocentre, which was very well patronised, especially on Saturdays and generally in the run up to Christmas.

The catchment area that GCR serve is much wider than Sunderland though, with Hartlepool and Middlesbrough also in the equation. These areas all have a long history of economic depression, and I'm not suggesting that GCR is going to solely change that, but with any luck, they can help to regenerate the area.

I do worry, to be honest, that the current timetable will not be sufficiently frequent to attract the lucrative business market that any IC TOC needs to survive, but I am sure that Tom, Ian and the team are working on that as we speak. I

It also concerns me that GCR might not be able to attract enough passengers, and I've posted previously in the GCR Ticketing thread about why, I worry that this is the case, I hope, genuinely hope that I am wrong, but to say that Sunderland doesn't deserve a through service, as a bigger city in population terms than Newcastle, is preposterous.

I might remind you that there are several large companies, including Arriva, Barclays, Royal Mail, More Than and Littlewoods, that all have extensive operations within Sunderland, and a lot of travellers to and from these sites currently use GNER at Durham to acceess them. Hopefully this trend can be challenged.

Sunderland, like any area, deserves high quality rail services, the people of Sunderland and Cleveland can now look forward to that level of service soon.

 

[theblackwatch]

m8internet, I think your "contact" at the ORR is pulling your chain! If he knows that you are asking for info about GC, then he could (and so it seems he is) be telling you anything just to get you to go away.

Probably the same person who told him there was a GC HST at a secret location undergoing tests a couple of months ago!

 

[djw1981]

djw, can I ask what you mean when you say you feel that the service isn't "deserved"? Although I live in Seaham, I'm Newcastle through and through, but my patriotism for my home town must emerge in saying that, Sunderland, and Hartlepool have in successive years been let down very badly by the SRA, DfT and more recently Nexus.

<snippety snip> - Tom

Sunderland, like any area, deserves high quality rail services, the people of Sunderland and Cleveland can now look forward to that level of service soon.

The not deserved comment was tongue in cheek and sarcasm doesn't work in text format, Ok I get that now, and yesterday had been a long day.

I still prefer the railhead theory of transport as advocated by some transports analysts at privatisation. i.e. timetables would be run for good connections, so trains from Chathill, Hexham, Sunderland would all arrive into Newcastle in enough time to allow a good connection onto the ECML service (XC at the time having a less regular service than now).

This was part of the reasoning given when the Metro was extended - it would allow better connection from Sunderland (from South Hylton round through City Centre and up the coast) straight into Newcastle Central.

If the railhead theory had been adopted, services into Darlington from Middlesborough would have been similarly timed.

You mention lots of these head offices, but last time i was through Sunderland - 18 months ago, they seemed to be building such offices nearer to the A19, and Doxford Park, itself not far from the A690 (which leads to Durham).

Given that, like most City centre's, Sunderland has congestion and no 'quick' route by car to the station, and given the longer journey time from Sunderland as opposed to Durham, combined with the location of the major business parks on the Durham side of Sunderland with a direct road link to Durham, and the faster journey times, I'm not sure how many people will be willing to sacrifice choice in travel time and shorter journey times, just to travel from Sunderland.

Journey times from Doxford to Durham can be almost as low as to Sunderland given Durham station's location on the edge of town near the ring road.

Also, with NXEC, Business customers can have a range of departures through the evening (ticket permitting), however with GC this is limited, so I see their market as being more aimed at leisure travel to London, and not Business.

Finally, GC has said, and analysts have estimated that the York stop was the stop required to make money, so the Business customers most likely to choose GC, and those who will make or break GC's business will be York commuters and Business people, rather than Sunderland, or Cleveland. IMO

PS> And maybe I should have said this after my last post, all this is opinion.

 

[91101]

Djw, thanks for the response, much appreciated. Your concerns echo my own to a certain extent, that it is that the business market, are still going to find Durham a potentially more attractive option.

I think that the mackem in me got the better of me!

 

[BOSCH]

The not deserved comment was tongue in cheek and sarcasm doesn't work in text format, Ok I get that now, and yesterday had been a long day.

I still prefer the railhead theory of transport as advocated by some transports analysts at privatisation. i.e. timetables would be run for good connections, so trains from Chathill, Hexham, Sunderland would all arrive into Newcastle in enough time to allow a good connection onto the ECML service (XC at the time having a less regular service than now).

This was part of the reasoning given when the Metro was extended - it would allow better connection from Sunderland (from South Hylton round through City Centre and up the coast) straight into Newcastle Central.

If the railhead theory had been adopted, services into Darlington from Middlesborough would have been similarly timed.

You mention lots of these head offices, but last time i was through Sunderland - 18 months ago, they seemed to be building such offices nearer to the A19, and Doxford Park, itself not far from the A690 (which leads to Durham).

Given that, like most City centre's, Sunderland has congestion and no 'quick' route by car to the station, and given the longer journey time from Sunderland as opposed to Durham, combined with the location of the major business parks on the Durham side of Sunderland with a direct road link to Durham, and the faster journey times, I'm not sure how many people will be willing to sacrifice choice in travel time and shorter journey times, just to travel from Sunderland.

Journey times from Doxford to Durham can be almost as low as to Sunderland given Durham station's location on the edge of town near the ring road.

Also, with NXEC, Business customers can have a range of departures through the evening (ticket permitting), however with GC this is limited, so I see their market as being more aimed at leisure travel to London, and not Business.

Finally, GC has said, and analysts have estimated that the York stop was the stop required to make money, so the Business customers most likely to choose GC, and those who will make or break GC's business will be York commuters and Business people, rather than Sunderland, or Cleveland. IMO

PS> And maybe I should have said this after my last post, all this is opinion.

A very well put point of view if I may say so djw,everyone is entitled to an opinion,the world would be a duller place without them my friend !

 

[djw1981]

As one of my friends puts it: "Opinion's are like Ar$$holes. Everyone's got one, and though we don;t always like to see it, imagine the world without em...."

 

[paul1609]

I presume plans for a start on December 2 have been abandoned?
Looks to me as though Grand central will lose their paths as of December 11th.
Has there ever been a rail company that has closed before it has run a single passenger service?

 

[91101]

I don't think that there is any risk of Grand Central shutting up shop before operations commence! HST was out today, with a buffet car at the front, going through Newcastle about 08:30 around the KEB, I'm presuming down the coast, heading for Sunderland.

Its the first time I have seen a GCR HST in the flesh and you know what...I like!

 

[Tom]

I presume plans for a start on December 2 have been abandoned?
Looks to me as though Grand central will lose their paths as of December 11th.
Has there ever been a rail company that has closed before it has run a single passenger service?

Network Fail just being b*stards and a few faults on one of the Valenta's IIRC.