Grand central problem

[bennorthyork]

Please can you give me some advice based on what happened today. I went to catch the 13.45 kings cross to eaglescliffe grand central. I had 1st class tickets. The temperature in first and the adjacent carriage was unbearable. Two passengers had thermometers on their phones which showed 36 and 35 degrees. So my girlfriend and I refused to travel on the train. A GP also on the train refused to travel and said to the conductor that passengers health was being put at risk. A number of other passengers also got off. The conductor did nothing to help but accepted that the air conditioning had been broken for a few days. I am now on the 1400 changing at darlington for which i have had to pay full fare. How best can i get my money back and is there anything else i should do?

 

[yorkie]

my suggestion would have been to go in standard class; you'd be entitled at least to the difference in fare back as compensation.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Please can you give me some advice based on what happened today. I went to catch the 13.45 kings cross to eaglescliffe grand central. I had 1st class tickets. The temperature in first and the adjacent carriage was unbearable. Two passengers had thermometers on their phones which showed 36 and 35 degrees. So my girlfriend and I refused to travel on the train. A GP also on the train refused to travel and said to the conductor that passengers health was being put at risk. A number of other passengers also got off. The conductor did nothing to help but accepted that the air conditioning had been broken for a few days. I am now on the 1400 changing at darlington for which i have had to pay full fare. How best can i get my money back and is there anything else i should do?

On paper I don't think you will be entitled to anything at all, you left the train of your own choice. I am sure there would have been space in one of the other coaches, albeit in Standard Class. You would then probably be able to claim a refund on the difference in the fare. The easiest way to do this is to get the Guard to write "No First Class from X to Y, 1H00" or similar on the ticket. I often do this and it means the passenger should then be able to claim a refund at a ticket office fairly promptly, without having to write off.

Having said all that, Grand Central are relatively customer focused and may choose to refund something as a gesture of goodwill. No harm in contacting them.

The air con on those 180s appears to be fairly shocking. I rarely use them, but when I do I don't think I have ever come across a unit with the heating / cooling working correctly in all coaches.

 

[bennorthyork]

I should have added that there were no seats available in any other carriages and there were already passengers standing otherwise I would have done as you both suggest have moved to another carriage. Does that make any difference to my claim for compensation?

 

[yorkie]

I would have sat in the vestibule, and I'd then be fairly confident of full compensation.

If you have an 'open' ticket valid for 1 month and plan to go again, use it on that occasion. If not, write in I guess.

But did you have to get a full fare ticket on East Coast? I would have got a ticket to Peterborough (£25.90 for a single, 10p less than the return), and a Peterborough York (£30.40 for a single - 10p less than the return) and a York to Yarm (£9.50 ) and weekend first (£20) this totals £90.80, plus a small taxi fare for Yarm - Eaglescliffe, this would get you to Eaglescliffe before the changing at Darlo option (not much in it though), call it £96. That's a lot less than a "full fare" first class single priced at £187.50. I think it would be a bad deal for other customers if you were given £187.50 as compensation.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I should have added that there were no seats available in any other carriages and there were already passengers standing otherwise I would have done as you both suggest have moved to another carriage. Does that make any difference to my claim for compensation?

As before, on paper probably not. Your ticket entitles you to make that journey, it doesn't give any guarantee of a seat or that a particular class of accommodation is available. No harm in contacting Grand Central, but I don't think you are actually entitled to anything - anything you do get would be a gesture of goodwill.

Having said that, you can always claim a refund on the unused ticket - ie your GC one. You purchased a new ticket again, so your GC ticket is completely unused. Providing it has no silly restrictions on it you can claim a refund on the unused ticket, less any admin fee without hassle.

 

[yorkie]

I agree with kwvr45's posts above, and just add that I'd say you're entitled to the GC fare back. If it's a return I'd expect them to give you 50% of the return ticket back. But the EC fare was up to you, and if you chose to spend £187.50 then you're rich enough to afford it (I'm not!)

 

[CarterUSM]

I like the GP's comment that peoples health was being put at risk, is there still no upper limit on temperature that would preclude staff from working, health and safety wise? Best of luck to the OP with their claim also.

 

[devon_metro]

I like the GP's comment that peoples health was being put at risk, is there still no upper limit on temperature that would preclude staff from working, health and safety wise? Best of luck to the OP with their claim also.

The Guard/TM etc makes a decision on whether to take the train. They are entitled to refuse to operate the train of course if they consider it an unsafe working environment.

 

[ainsworth74]

I still don't get why we don't have a hopper windows on modern stock that can be opened by the Guard, so if the AC fails in the heat at least there is a fall back? Would seem common sense to me. (But I guess I've answered my own question there )

 

[CarterUSM]

The Guard/TM etc makes a decision on whether to take the train. They are entitled to refuse to operate the train of course if they consider it an unsafe working environment.

Yes, i've refused to take the odd train myself for various reasons, but i distinctly remember some wording about minimum temperatures, but no maximum limit if i remember correctly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I still don't get why we don't have a hopper windows on modern stock that can be opened by the Guard, so if the AC fails in the heat at least there is a fall back? Would seem common sense to me. (But I guess I've answered my own question there )

You did indeed!! It is amazing the faith that is entrusted in systems, with no falback available.:cry:

 

[bennorthyork]

Received a full refund from GC in Rail Travel Vouchers. They said they normally don't refund for air conditioning problems but there were clearly extreme circumstances on that day. Good result.

 

[gordonthemoron]

The german police are investigating Deutsche Bahn after aircon failed on a number of ICE trains and the temperature rose to 50C

 

[Scotty]

On Saturday, I travelled on the 1255 Nottingham to Mansfield Woodhouse. A unit came in on the correct platform, but apparently some windows had been smashed. Another unit arrived on a difference platform, and we were ushered onto it.

The air conditioning had failed, and the EMT guard offered out free bottles of water.

 

[mallard]

Was on an XC service from Bristol TM to Derby back in May. Was a rather hot day and the train was full. Got up to use the toilet at one point and was amazed at how hot it was in the neighbouring carriage. I don't know much about the climate control on a SuperVoyager, but I could feel hot air being fanned as though the heating was on full. I could barely stand to walk through the carriage, it must have been extremely unpleasant for those travelling in it!

I'm amazed that trains can run in service with such high internal temperatures. In today's litigious society, I wouldn't be at all surprised if somebody sues a train company over such an issue.

 

[andylloyd]

I can CONFIRM that the H&S act states that there is a Minimum Temperature however there is no Maximum Temperature

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I can CONFIRM that the H&S act states that there is a Minimum Temperature however there is no Maximum Temperature

A Minimum temperature? Please tell me what it is! When I am working on freezing cold 185's all winter as the heating doesn't work I shall bear that in mind!

 

[Matt Taylor]

From the HSE website:

"The temperature in workrooms should normally be at least 16 degrees Celsius unless much of the work involves severe physical effort in which case the temperature should be at least 13 degrees Celsius."

 

[tony_mac]

It should probably be 16 degrees - but I'm not sure it applies in trains.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/thermal/faq.htm

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Again, not sure how it would work in the context of a train, but in an office apparently if the temperature has failed to rise above the minimum of 16°C two hours after the start of the normal office hours for the location, the staff have a right to go home without penalty.

Not sure if that clause was rescinded a few years ago or not though.

 

[Scotty]

16 degrees is quite chilly. Our computer server room is at 17, and if you spend more than a few minutes in there you get quite cold!

 

[richw]

as already said the minimum is 16 but there is no maximum, however to me it should be no minimum but a maximum, as you can put on extra layers in the cold, but you can only take off so much in the heat!