Grand Central HSTs?

[Pathfinder]

damn right we are!!hock:

Not looking good though is it mate after reading jb95's post ! ad:

 

[JB95]

Pathfinder, Perhaps you are confusing a Fleet Engineer (bloke at top - not much clue of day to day problems on refurbs and seeking limelight) with Depot Engineer (bloke fed up with delays on-site thats doing refurb work) - this means - Mr Shipley will be more focussed on 'new build' projects for Sovereign Trains such as Polaris, Pacemaker (is that a good name for a train?) and Potenta and abroad a lot - you may be interested in his webcast entitled 'The Introduction of New Low Cost DMUs to the UK' coming to IETV - funny, no mention of the webcast on 'decent places to spend the night in Stoke'. But seriously (actually that was serious) there should have been an engineer on-site right from the start of the project, there is at other refurb depots, or at least 3 times a week visits to 'keep the boys keen'

 

[Pathfinder]

Pathfinder, Perhaps you are confusing a Fleet Engineer (bloke at top - not much clue of day to day problems on refurbs and seeking limelight) with Depot Engineer (bloke fed up with delays on-site thats doing refurb work) - this means - Mr Shipley will be more focussed on 'new build' projects for Sovereign Trains such as Polaris, Pacemaker (is that a good name for a train?) and Potenta and abroad a lot - you may be interested in his webcast entitled 'The Introduction of New Low Cost DMUs to the UK' coming to IETV - funny, no mention of the webcast on 'decent places to spend the night in Stoke'. But seriously (actually that was serious) there should have been an engineer on-site right from the start of the project, there is at other refurb depots, or at least 3 times a week visits to 'keep the boys keen'

you're probably right,i try to avoid engineers/fitters,usually means me units a failure !!

 

[JB95]

Association of Locomotive ENGINEERS and footplatemen ring a bell? You should be able to fix it yourself!! Only joking Path, my Dad was a Driver and I've had to propel a few units myself, so respect to you for that - I just think the whole GCR thing has gone pear-shaped and its unfair to the public and the spotters too, everyone else concerned with it gets paid for waiting or downtime - you wouldn't allow that to happen if you held the purse strings would you? Or at least you'd have put a few things in place to protect yourself

 

[Pathfinder]

Association of Locomotive ENGINEERS and footplatemen ring a bell? You should be able to fix it yourself!! Only joking Path, my Dad was a Driver and I've had to propel a few units myself, so respect to you for that - I just think the whole GCR thing has gone pear-shaped and its unfair to the public and the spotters too, everyone else concerned with it gets paid for waiting or downtime - you wouldn't allow that to happen if you held the purse strings would you? Or at least you'd have put a few things in place to protect yourself

I understand where you're coming from but i also have sympathy for the GC staff i met over the last few months(i know they're still getting paid,but for how long if this situation continues)I know for a fact that that they just want to get out there and provide a service for which they were employed for.

 

[JB95]

I sympathise with the GCR staff too, well outside of engineering anyway!

 

[37402]

37402, the funny thing is that no-one mentioned Bogies as a problem at Marcroft - I'm not sure of the Operational deal struck, but you could run with a 110mph restriction in place on the Power Cars - a bit like Pendolinos and Voyagers having a higher design speed than they actually do - I know the EC route is faster but it doesn't mean they have to do 125mph does it? Having said that I'm also unsure if its possible to uprate an existing BT10 to BT10B, if it is maybe the parts needed to upgrade them are available, so they have no problem - dunno about this one but as I say it wasn't mentioned as a problem

As has been mentioned, the paths are for 125mph running and anything less would have been refused. I get the impression from people involved with Mk3 maintenance at the moment that this shortage was rather unexpected (taking into account the general rundown of the Mk3 loco hauled fleet, the manufacturers/reconditioners had not bargained for this revival and therefore hadn't planned for such high demand) and therefore, while a bit of forward planning would have probably paid off, Marcroft aren't entirely to blame for this.

AFIAA Marcroft weren't involved in the EWS company train. It was ESG led with work being carried out by EWS staff at Toton (as with the first few of the batch of FSR sleepers currently being done). Indeed it was one of the final projects undertaken at the now closed Toton WRD.

I'm not quite sure what is being suggested as 'fishy' goings on but I'd be careful as laws apply on the internet too!

 

[JB95]

37 - thanks for clearing up the 'who-did-what' on the EWS Company Train. To clarify my earlier posts, i'm not suggesting anyone is involved in foul play etc. or anything 'fishy' as such, but at the end of the day the services aren't being run for the people that want them and the fact remains that the lack of finished product should speak for itself. To me it almost seems as if GC are ok with the delays and not interested in finding out why they have happened - but again I don't know if there's a 'small print' penalty clause in the contract for the refurb stating that GC get a big wad of cash knocked off the bill each time a target is missed, you would think so, but I really don't know, so apologies for upsetting anyone who's read my posts - it just seems a bit unprofessional that's all

 

[rail-britain]

BT10 bogies are designed for 125mph operation
The problem has been the Mark 3a coaches, as these are designed for 125mph operation, but do not have the additional brake reservoir and electrical equipment required for 125mph
This is why Mark 3a coaches are restricted to 110mph operation
The same upgrade will be required for the Mk 3a coaches that WCSR plan to use with EWS Class 67s

 

[JB95]

GC will struggle to find staff willing to give up jobs and join them from other TOCs, especially as they haven't started 'trading' as yet. I do sympathise for them on that score, so they would naturally have to take on staff from non-rail backgrounds. I guess its up to them what tests they use for potential employees, but if you say they readily promote once you're 'in the door' then they must have problems in attracting staff into the higher positions too. I sincerely hope things get better for GC in the New Year

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

The plot thickens!!
According to our drivers this morning, when they were at Doncaster doing traction, Wabtec were turning coaches round in a week, doing pretty much what Marcroft/ESG are doing to them...

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Also seen it on RailChat!!

 

[Pathfinder]

Also seen it on RailChat!!

Yes,me too,thats where I plagiarised it from.lol !!!

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

hock:

 

[37402]

The plot thickens!!
According to our drivers this morning, when they were at Doncaster doing traction, Wabtec were turning coaches round in a week, doing pretty much what Marcroft/ESG are doing to them...

Maybe, but Wabtec have been doing it a lot longer so there is less of a learning curve.

Marcroft are converting loco hauled stock to HST trailers...something which has never been tried before. Anything can be straightforward on paper, but when it comes down to it in reality (especially with railway vehicles, something which JB should be able to confirm), there are a lot of unknowns. The extent of corrosion for example (a common problem on Mark 3 stock) differs greatly between vehicles.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

hmm, yes I suppose the Mk3s are 30 odd years old!!

 

[Pathfinder]

hmm, yes I suppose the Mk3s are 30 odd years old!!

whats the word on your MKIII's mate,you posted earlier that one had arrived in the "wee small hours",have you seen it,is it as bad as what jb95 makes out ?

 

[JB95]

In the main you can turn a Mk3 around in a week, we used to do it regularly at Derby on the 'One' Anglia refurbs (similar to the GC Mk3's but without bogie conversion, elec DC to AC conversion and Buffer removals) and also on the FGW Mk3s. The thing that will let the GC Mk3s down is that the toilets retain the original sinks & pans and the centre ceiling panels (particularly around the lighting grilles) remain original too - you can see just how 'weathered' the plastics have become over the years. On a plus point, the bulkheads are adorned by large piccys of Maryln Monroe.

 

[rail-britain]

The refurb for GCR is a little more than replacement of the internal trims and repaint
The Mk3a coaches are fitted with ETH and not three phase
Also they do not have the additional brake equipment for 125mph operation, and this will also need to be fitted
I believe the target time per coach is five weeks, with four undergoing work at any one time
Eighteen coaches in total to be converted
The remaining six Mk3 HST coaches only require refurbishment, although three of these are TRSB (buffet) and may also require more work depending on what type of conversion GCR have specified

Each set will also require to meet the DDA and so at least one Mk3a TSO will have to include a disabled access toilet
There may also be a requirement to install a disabled access toilet to First Class as well!

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

I personally havent seen it but I am told that outside looks good, the saloons looks reasonable, the vestibules look good, yet the internal doors are scratched, as are the mirrors in the loos. These are to be done at Heaton apparently. Will have a look next week as Im at the depot all week.

 

[JB95]

m8internet is quite right about the conversion being more than just interiors and paint - Although the 'shells and chassis' are more or less the same, it remains that Mk3 LHCS is very different to HST stock, there are the extra brake requirements and conversion to 3-phase, the target time of 5 weeks per car is 'do-able' but ALL bits of kit and personnel must be in place for this to be achieved. The buffet car I saw on site had got a lot of 'rethink' work to be done, such as a coffee machine being some 175mm too wide to fit into the space left for it and there being no room to fit a 26" LCDTV within the rear overhead advertising display area (you would just about get a 15" in!). As for Sir Clag's comment, despite me mentioning darker colours show up the kinks and ripples more when close up, the overall external appearance is good. Saloons? Well I think they're reasonable until you look up at the ceilings or above luggage rack level and don't look at the 70's draught-screens and the end luggage racks or the toilets. Seat frames/arms/mouldings are the originals too, so expect to see a few chunks missing out of them. External paint on the 'gold' doors is actually a nice metallic gold by the way.

 

[Pathfinder]

Ooooooooh,Gold Doors,get her !!! lol

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Our MD was up at Heaton today, not had his verdict yet!!

 

[Pathfinder]

Our MD was up at Heaton today, not had his verdict yet!!

We await with bated breath my friend,if the desciption is anything like what jb95 says it is,do you think he'll ask for a refund ?

 

[rail-britain]

I would have thought that the "refurbishment" details would have been quite specific, and that the coaches as specified would each have its own requirements for work to be carried out
Even if basic things like the mirrors have been overlooked, and not included in the specifics, then that is hardly the fault of the contractor
However, they may be replaced as a good will gesture!

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Nae idea mate!! Someone wants to get their finger out and get something done, we want to launch a service in the not too distant future!!

 

[andylloyd]

Thats fair enough, when is the next power car due to be arriving into Heaton?

Cheers

Andy

 

[Pathfinder]

I would have thought that the "refurbishment" details would have been quite specific, and that the coaches as specified would each have its own requirements for work to be carried out
Even if basic things like the mirrors have been overlooked, and not included in the specifics, then that is hardly the fault of the contractor
However, they may be replaced as a good will gesture!

Dont think its a goodwill gesture,clagalot has said that heaton depot will be doing the minor things like mirrors/vestibule doors etc,aside from that,this whole refurb shenanigans has dragged on too far now,maybe all those that forecast a december start for GC could be right,by the way m8,is your reservation still valid for the vip launch ? just wondering thats all !!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thats fair enough, when is the next power car due to be arriving into Heaton?

Cheers

Andy

Next week,so my "friends" at heaton tell me !!

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

I would like to think the third PC will be delivered either next week or the week after, as there was a two week gap between the first two.
Yeah, come on m8internet, you must know when the launch is?

 

[rail-britain]

Yes, I do know when the launch is as I received my replacement tickets and accomodation details
The pack has also been updated

I'm travelling on the 08:53 from London to Sunderland and 13:42 on the Sunday
I will then be assisting on four of the six services on the Monday, between London and York, to demonstrate the onboard WiFi
Fraser Eagle are even providing transport to/from Scotland for this!

The online ticket sales website has also been activated, although when you try to proceed to purchase the link is dead