How is it an "improvement"? There is no performance benefit. Also how much do you think an MTU engine costs, and why should they pay for it without the track access extension in place yet?
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TrainBrain185
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"How is an improvement"? Well, ask the Rail Operators who have changed to MTU. I'm sure if there was no improvement over the Paxman Valenta/VP185, then the whole exercise of re-engining the HST to MTU power has been a complete waste of time and money. There may be perhaps a larger initial expense taking the MTU option but let the balance sheet over the remainder of the HST lifespan speak for itself.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
However as is becoming pretty common knowledge, further developments of the MTU end up using more fuel in order to meet stricter emissions standards. Any benefits therefore become significantly reduced over the lifetime of the engine.
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Indeed so, there is a lot of work involved in re-engining a power car with a MTU engine. Someone will end up correcting me, but there's a fair bit of work involved to fit the alternator (?) to the MTU due to different engine size and Goodness knows what altogether.
Although replacing those infernal GEC traction motors at the MTU'ing stage would have been a good idea. Shame that didn't happen although it's bound to have been due to cost.
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Indeed so, there is a lot of work involved in re-engining a power car with a MTU engine. Someone will end up correcting me, but there's a fair bit of work involved to fit the alternator (?) to the MTU due to different engine size and Goodness knows what altogether.
Although replacing those infernal GEC traction motors at the MTU'ing stage would have been a good idea. Shame that didn't happen although it's bound to have been due to cost.
BOSCH
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Further info regards 43123,I have been informed that a "new" power unit will not be put into this PC,it is only at Brush to get its "heads" done and should be back very soon ! 
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Woo, excellent news! Is 067 getting a new/overhauled engine then?
Ta for sharing that BOSCH, looking forward to 123 returning!
Ta for sharing that BOSCH, looking forward to 123 returning!
BOSCH
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Info for those who are interested,newly refurbed 180114 is at Heaton,complete with Wi-Fi and power sockets !!
Lampshade
Established Member
Aha, excellent news, will it be entering service with GC in the near future or will this one be the exclusive preserve of the West Riding services?
BOSCH
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Watch this this space,could "possibly" be out on sunday as one of the additional trains for xmas !!
Watch this this space,could "possibly" be out on sunday as one of the additional trains for xmas !!
Bosch, could you describe at all what the refurb is like internally? I'm guessing the seats will stay the same, but are there new covers, for example?
Thanks!
BOSCH
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RochdalePioneers
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Major problems this morning with the guard of the 0641 ex Sunderland apparently in a nasty car crash - hope they are OK.
My MIL is at KGX trying to travel north, and be the look of it the 180 that normally forms the 16:50 north is being stepped up to form a very late running 11:27 to Sunderland (+120 mins ish). Website states that the 06:41 was cancelled - is it running empty to London? Otherwise that leaves them no set to work the 19:18 northwards, and they're not saying that its cancelled at this stage.
My MIL is at KGX trying to travel north, and be the look of it the 180 that normally forms the 16:50 north is being stepped up to form a very late running 11:27 to Sunderland (+120 mins ish). Website states that the 06:41 was cancelled - is it running empty to London? Otherwise that leaves them no set to work the 19:18 northwards, and they're not saying that its cancelled at this stage.
The MTUs installed by GNER have achieved a fuel saving of 17% a reduction in oil consumption of 36% improved reliability by 30% I'd say that was a pretty dramatic performance benefit!
The track access extension is I think a bit of a red herring.
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Possibly more fuel than the current MTU engine but probably only marginally so and theres no way that a modern common rail diesel is going to use more fuel than a PAxman Valenta
royaloak
Established Member
How so, if GC paid for the MTUs to be fitted and didnt get the extension how would they recoup the costs?
The track access extension was made on the grounds that its a one off chance to fit the same MTUs as GNER because of EU legislation. The EU legislation doesnt actually prevent the fitting of those engines to old locomotives in the future but it may be that the engines will no longer be produced. However it is my understanding that the MTU engine only requires very minor tweeks to meet the new regulations and that the new engines will basically be very similar.
If GC fitted the engines now and track access was refused in 2 years time. It is very likely I would suggest that GC could either use those trains elsewhere or that they could sell them on to other operators for further use thus recovering the cost.
If GC fitted the engines now and track access was refused in 2 years time. It is very likely I would suggest that GC could either use those trains elsewhere or that they could sell them on to other operators for further use thus recovering the cost.
RochdalePioneers
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Anyone know what has gone on this afternoon? The service down from Sunderland left only a few minutes late but shed 10 minutes between Thirsk and York and ended up nearly an hour late onto the Cross. Then the 18:20 is showing as No Report. Duff set?
Kingfisher200262
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180105 down to two motors and thus cancelled.
RochdalePioneers
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It was running on 4 last weekend.
Anyway, onboard the up 06:41 in Mk3 declassed 1st luxury Had a scorching run, now trundling down the Hertford loop with other EC diverted stuff trundling the other way.
RochdalePioneers
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Sat on the 19:18 still on the Cross. Set was here at 19:00 wheb I arrived. Network Rail decided to refill the toilet tanks at 19:15. Hang on, rolling now at 19:28.
Do NR do this to GC on purpose? They also managed to send an arriving Mk4 set onto the adjacent platform - passengers then pushing past open grilles in an obvious Health and Safety breech.
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Have sent an email to Network Rail querying the incident last night. Its bad enough having to stand in the cold whilst the guy fails to service our set and departing late as a consequence. But the arriving EC set and the onrushing hordes was an accident waiting to happen. Pax don't tend to be looking for such things (or indeed anything) when pushing their way down the platform on arrival.
Do NR do this to GC on purpose? They also managed to send an arriving Mk4 set onto the adjacent platform - passengers then pushing past open grilles in an obvious Health and Safety breech.
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Have sent an email to Network Rail querying the incident last night. Its bad enough having to stand in the cold whilst the guy fails to service our set and departing late as a consequence. But the arriving EC set and the onrushing hordes was an accident waiting to happen. Pax don't tend to be looking for such things (or indeed anything) when pushing their way down the platform on arrival.
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Sir_Clagalot
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It's ISS who clean and tank, not NR... Were you sat in the declassified First at the front end?
RochdalePioneers
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Yes that was me with the boy. Hello from yesterday!
Yeah I knew NR had a contractor and the few minutes late start doesn't bother me that much either. I just thought that the situation when the EC service tipped its passengers onto the platform was highly dangerous. Pax don't lookwhere they are going at the best of times and I watched several of them nearly walk (at speed!) into the raised metal covers.
richa2002
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Well if people trip over the metal covers it's there own fault! It seems people were trusted to avoid an obstruction without a 6ft fence being around it. Very rare these days.
BOSCH
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For those that maybe interested,180107 is now in GC possession at heaton,saw it as I left heaton this evening parked alongside 180105
GNERman
Established Member
For those that maybe interested,180107 is now in GC possession at heaton,saw it as I left heaton this evening parked alongside 180105
Excellent, Hull Trains will have to cope with one less 180 then, so that's four now, with 114 on one engine at Heaton, so is it 101 or 109 which will become the final to join the fleet?
BOSCH
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101 is the only one left to join the fleet which I believe is possibly at Springburn,Glasgow !!
GNERman
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101 is the only one left to join the fleet which I believe is possibly at Springburn,Glasgow !!
yeah I heard that someone had seen it on low loaders heading up there on the M6...:roll:
GNERman
Established Member
Why would you want to move FC to the end coach?
There's not a lot of room in comparison to where it is, the space behind the cab is a lot bigger than you think, which makes the seating become a lot less than in the other coaches.
They would actually lose a lot of seating from doing that whoch is why it wasn't done in the first place...
114 is currently up at heaton depot on one engine I think, and rumours are that she hasn't been refurbed fully, just WiFi and sockets put in, as well as GC board games table tops and GC stuff around the buffet...
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