Govia Witness Statement

[JoeyBandana]

Hi Guys,

Would appreciate everyone’s thoughts on this matter which as resulted in a witness statement being issued to me.

Recently traveled across the Govia Thames Link without a valid ticket. Unlike most on this forum, I have to concede here for my lack of judgement.

The issue was that I travel from outside of London into work, which allows me to get into Zone 1 and back. However as I decided to stay overnight in London rather than commute back home outside of London, I used the same return ticket. Which says I can travel from Zone 1 back to my home destination. I do remember this working on one occasion where the barrier accepted my ticket.

That being said clearly the issue is that my ticket wasn’t valid as I was travelling outside of Zone One. When getting to the barriers the ticket didn’t work but upon flashing it at the barriers, I was waved through. Therefore I thought I was okay but admittedly, the person at the barrier probably didn’t care.

I was then stopped 2 stops away from my intended destination who escalated things quickly, even though I tried to explain that I was let through. This has resulted in a witness statement being issued. Which is why I’m writing now.

During the interaction I felt I was understanding and pleasant but made my case to not pay the penalty fare which is something in hindsight I should have accepted. He said if I’m found lying I could be done for fraud. This interaction happened in a blur and I was shocked and may not have given the correct details of how I got through. To be honest I forgot most of what I said but did say the ticket didn’t work and I showed it to the person at the barrier who waived me through. Which is true.

I did say this level of escalation was heavy handed but he assured me if I co-operate I’ll just pay a fine. I’m not sure how true that is for my case!

This was foolish risk to take and I genuinely fear severe consequences as this isn’t a typical railcard expiry story. And I can see why anyone in Govia’s shoes would push for this being deliberate. I could not be more sorry or regretful and have lost sleep over the last few days.

This is a line I rarely travel on (maybe 3 other times?) and have a long history of paying fairly on another train network.

I’ve kept details intentionally a bit vague for anonymity but hopes this describes the situation.I am now waiting for a letter where they ask for my side of events but feel like I’ve got a lot against me here even though the journey was about £12s, I fear going to court and paying £1000 and/or prison.

Thank you for your help and happy to answer and questions if parts aren’t clear. I’m dyslexic so imagine this post might prompt questions.

 

[AlterEgo]

What type of ticket were you using exactly? And in what way was it not valid? Season tickets or most open returns would be valid the next day, with no problem. Was it a day return? I’m a bit confused at how your ticket isn’t valid here as you suggest the problem is “using it outside of Zone One”.

 

[JoeyBandana]

Hello, was a return ticket for specific trains to and from London Zone one only for specific trains

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello, was a return ticket for specific trains to and from London Zone one only for specific trains

So these were advance tickets? On what grounds did you refuse a penalty fare?

 

[JoeyBandana]

So these were advance tickets? On what grounds did you refuse a penalty fare?

Yes, on that the staff let me through and that I was still in Zone one. Admittedly it was a poor defence which is why I’m concerned.

 

[Pushpit]

Yes, on that the staff let me through and that I was still in Zone one. Admittedly it was a poor defence which is why I’m concerned.

If you were on Advance tickets then you are committed to travelling on the set times - that is the nature of the ticket. There is a mechanism to change an Advance ticket to another service, but critically this has to be done before the original time of travel, not after. If you are in this position again it is almost always best to accept a penalty fare - which can be appealed - than any other course of action, since now Govia is within their rights to prosecute you. As with all replies in this forum, the details matter, so if you are holding back anything significant then that may prevent you getting the best advice here.

That said Govia rarely take people to court directly. Usually an out of court settlement, for considerably more than the £50 penalty fare, is usually offered. On the very few cases here where Govia still goes to court one is often wondering whether there is more to the story. But if it's a simple case of not having a valid ticket and you don't have "form" for previous evasion then the usual advice would apply to successfully get an out of court settlement: wait for Govia's letter, share it here, and draft an apologetic letter. Then we can check it before Govia sees it, and usually that is enough to prevent prosecution. Note that Govia may do a digital strip search of your rail ticket purchases for any inconsistencies, which is another reason for always having the right ticket for the right train before you board.

 

[JoeyBandana]

Hi there thank you for such a detailed reply. Thankfully I have not had any other history of evasion. This is an isolated incident on a network of rarely travel. I am of course guilty of not having a valid ticket and my defence was essentially “well I got let through”. In a case such as this do you think I could get some leniency? The only thing I have a memory block on is how I described getting through. I’m may have said I flashed the ticket to him or that I might have implied that I actually spoke with their colleague and they said it was fine. This worries me. CCTV fotage would show my try unsuccessful get through and flash the guard my ticket though. All in all this is something I’m willing to admit as a mistake. Bottom line I didn’t have a valid ticket and should not have defended myself. The inspector just was so trigger happy to write me a witness statement. Curious what your take is and if I could settle this out of court?

 

[Pushpit]

You will probably get leniency but for a very different reason: out of court settlements are the usual outcome because they cost the train company less than legal action and gets them more money, and sooner, than any court based process. So cold commercial logic. There is a provision where you can potentially travel with the permission of railway staff, but what you are describing, and given the ticket, seems to me to be way off beam for that provision. Personally I wouldn't even try that as a defence now. If you had got a Penalty Fare - no longer possible for you now - then you could have used it as a basis of an appeal, which would in turn prevent prosecution, but even then I would expect the appeal to fail. So I don't think you are in a strong position to argue right now, but don't worry, it's probably just going to end up as an expensive out of court settlement, perhaps around the £200 or so mark.

 

[JoeyBandana]

Thank you so are you saying I that I just admit guilt and be extremely apologetic? Are there any circumstances where this appeal would be denied?

 

[Pushpit]

Thank you so are you saying I that I just admit guilt and be extremely apologetic? Are there any circumstances where this appeal would be denied?

Yes, but lets just wait for Govia's letter first. I am sure you won't be happy to hear this could take weeks or months, so it is a waiting game at this point and there is absolutely nothing you can do until then. Then present a redacted copy of Govia's letter, minus personal details, to this forum and your draft apology. This forum has a good record of getting out of court settlements, in your position I would say you need to take it seriously, but you don't need to worry. Almost all cases are settled out of court, certainly including your sort of fare evasion.

 

[JoeyBandana]

Thank you, really appreciate your help. Certainly a lesson I’ll never forget. I guess you can’t offer any guarantees but it’s positive to hear there’s a good chance of an out of court settlement. I know it’s still early but should I say in my response once the letter comes through, that I was let through? Even though the guard probably wasn’t doing their job. By the sounds of it I should just hold my hand up, tell them the facts and mention my extreme apology.

 

[Haywain]

I know it’s still early but should I say in my response once the letter comes through, that I was let through?

You keep asking about this but the reality is that the member of staff made a mistake or was tricked by you. It does nothing to alter the fact that you were travelling with an invalid ticket, so just hold your hands up and accept that.

 

[Pushpit]

Thank you, really appreciate your help. Certainly a lesson I’ll never forget. I guess you can’t offer any guarantees but it’s positive to hear there’s a good chance of an out of court settlement. I know it’s still early but should I say in my response once the letter comes through, that I was let through? Even though the guard probably wasn’t doing their job. By the sounds of it I should just hold my hand up, tell them the facts and mention my extreme apology.

Well, let's put it this way. I'm not employed by the railway, but my reaction to your point about being let in was "yeah, but you knew you were fare dodging and the guard there did not". And if I was employed by Govia, probably deeply cynical at all the excuses that come across their desk every single day, I would probably find a shorter and less pleasant way to reach the same conclusion. So yes, it's your fault, do the right thing and own up to your mistake.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, on that the staff let me through and that I was still in Zone one. Admittedly it was a poor defence which is why I’m concerned.

I suspect it's clear cut that the ticket was not valid (and somewhere in the payment process for the ticket that was probably explained or printed on the ticket) but it may be of help if you uploaded a copy of the ticket for people here to see.

They won't be bothering to look at CCTV for what you did at the gate line in any case, in my view.

 

[JoeyBandana]

Unfortunately they took the tickets so I can’t show it. But needless to say I’m in a massive wrong here. So I won’t put it on the guard’s lack of checking to absolve me. Appreciate your response everyone, will now have to wait for the dreaded letter!

 

[WesternLancer]

Unfortunately they took the tickets so I can’t show it. But needless to say I’m in a massive wrong here. So I won’t put it on the guard’s lack of checking to absolve me. Appreciate your response everyone, will now have to wait for the dreaded letter!

OK - well sounds like there is no dispute really about the ticket validity. But tis is a fairly simple case that can be resolved (and GTR tend to charge lower than some other train operators) so if all is as it seems you should be bale to resolve this in a straightforward manner with advice form this forum

They critical thing is to make sure you receive the letter and respond to it promptly.

 

[JoeyBandana]

Fingers crossed, it's a line I've travelled on like 3 times in my life. I won't be defensive about the ticket validity and hopefully that puts me in good stead. Nor are there any skeletons in the closet about past transgressions. Thank you for helping a stranger.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 May 2025 ==

Sorry just a question on when the letter comes. It sounds like I need to give a factual account of what occurred, should I include this? Other drafts I've seen here just mention how apologetic they are. I have in my mind that my factual evidence that I gave has to exactly match what occurred by I'm I may not have given an accurate account given I can't remember what I said to the inspector. Thank you!

 

[Pushpit]

Sorry just a question on when the letter comes. It sounds like I need to give a factual account of what occurred, should I include this? Other drafts I've seen here just mention how apologetic they are. I have in my mind that my factual evidence that I gave has to exactly match what occurred by I'm I may not have given an accurate account given I can't remember what I said to the inspector. Thank you!

OK so this is a variation of your previous questions, but it amounts to the same thing.

I don't think it matters here to provide a factual account of what happened, GTR will know enough. Ultimately you were fare evading and while human nature tends to want to give contextual mitigation, it is still fare evasion. There are some cases here were it is important to set the record straight, and if you had accepted the Penalty Fare this gives you more reason to give that context due to the appeal process. However once you get past the option of a Penalty Fare you are pretty much into strict liability land as far as the byelaws are concerned, and normally a case like that will be seen by GTR as a byelaw offence. The analogy that is often used here are those caught speeding. It doesn't greatly matter than you were trying to brake down an incline, or you never normally break the speed limit, you didn't see the sign, or the dog ate your sunglasses. So in terms of your mindset we are back to the previous advice: you say "It's a fair cop guv, I'm very sorry". Well maybe something a bit more sophisticated but you hopefully see my point. They've seen it all before. Concise replies are better anyway.

 

[JoeyBandana]

Thank you Pushpit. Sounds like the best advice is to draft this on this thread letter once I get the official letter from Govia. My ticket isn’t close to being remotely near what I needed. As it says from London Underground Zone 1 to a destination up north. So admitting fully looks like my best course of action.

 

[JoeyBandana]

Hi Guys, no letter yet. Is this normal, thought it would get here within 2 weeks.

 

[Hadders]

Letters can take several weeks to arrive.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi Guys, no letter yet. Is this normal, thought it would get here within 2 weeks.

Staff just say that but from timelines on other cases you can see that is rarely the case. Four to eight might be more likely.

 

[JoeyBandana]

Thank you Western! I'm moving away at the end of August, should I give my parents address and who do I email for this?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you Western! I'm moving away at the end of August, should I give my parents address and who do I email for this?

Yes you should advise the railway company of your change of address perhaps wait until into July to do that however.

Is this Thameslink? You may have to post it to them.

Can find address details on this forum but I’d need to look when not on a phone. It’s their Prosecutions department address

Were you given any reference number when stopped? That always helps to be able to quote.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jun 2025 ==

Thank you Western! I'm moving away at the end of August, should I give my parents address and who do I email for this?

See this thread post #4. If this is correct company the uploaded letter here has a postal address at King’s Cross you could use.

May also be an e mail

No Valid Railcard

I have received a notice to prosecute letter from thameslink today. On Friday 07/03/25 I boarded the train without a valid railcard. I didn’t realise it had expired so I explained this to the ticket inspector and bought a new railcard right away. Checking back I realise I now had bought 3...

www.railforums.co.uk

Confine any communication at this stage to simply notify them of a change of address. Post it to them tracked postage and keep records of the delivery as you may need to prove you told them if they fail to action the information.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2025 ==

Thank you Western! I'm moving away at the end of August, should I give my parents address and who do I email for this?

Their address is
Prosecutions Department, Govia Thameslink Railway, Eastside Offices, Kings Cross Railway Station, London N1C 4AX.

Here is an e-mail address for them that might be of help to you to inform them of your new postal address

email: gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com – This mailbox cannot be used to appeal

Personally I would e-mail them your change of address but also post it to them (print and post the e-mail if you like - send it tracked 2nd class postage - not the more expensive guaranteed next day tracked delivery however). Keep a record of the tracking.

Include as much info as you can to help them match your case with the change of address info

eg:
any ref numbers
full name and date of birth
address given and what new address will be
include date / time / location when you were stopped if you have it

 

[JoeyBandana]

Thank you Western and sorry for the late reply.

No letter yet, and I just moved out. Have told my landlord, who is moving back into the property we rented from him, to keep an eye out.

However, I'll do the above ASAP as I'm also wondering why they are taking so long.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you Western and sorry for the late reply.

No letter yet, and I just moved out. Have told my landlord, who is moving back into the property we rented from him, to keep an eye out.

However, I'll do the above ASAP as I'm also wondering why they are taking so long.

in case of use timeline from a recent thread I noted

Govia Example from summer 2025

1. the person (OP) was stopped around 23 April 2025
2. The OP got the letter from GTR / Thameslink on 14 August 2025
3. The OP replied to that letter around 18 August Jan 2025
4. Outcome advised: (not yet known)

 

[JoeyBandana]

Hi Western,

No letter have been received by me yet

EDIT: I get you now, there's still some time I guess.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi Western,

No letter have been received by me yet

Yes, you said - but you can see from the other random case I selected and listed that you will not have yet waited as long as they did before they got their letter. IIRC you have only been waiting since late May

you should also consider setting up a Royal mail redirection (see their website) for your post unless you know you can 100% rely on your landlord to advise you about post received in a prompt manner.

 

[JoeyBandana]

Thanks Western, appreciate your help as always mate.

 

[JoeyBandana]

Hi Guys,

Thanks again for all your help and time looking into this for me. The dreaded letter arrived yesterday.

This is my drafted response:

Dear Sir or Madam,


I am writing in response to your letter regarding my journey on 28 May 2025, during which I was found to be travelling without a valid ticket between London Bridge and xxx, having been stopped by the revenue protection team at xxx


I wish to express my sincere apologies for my actions. I acknowledge that I presented an invalid ticket (a Zone 1 to xxx fare) and that I attempted to use it for a journey it did not cover. This was a serious lapse in judgment on my part, and I take full responsibility for my mistake.


I understand that fare evasion and misuse of tickets impose a significant cost on both the rail industry and the wider public. I deeply regret contributing to this problem and therefore wish to express that I have learned a valuable lesson from this incident and can assure you that I will never repeat such behaviour in the future.


I respectfully request that you consider allowing me to settle this matter out of court. I am fully willing to pay any outstanding fares, administrative fees, or reasonable costs associated with this incident to resolve it promptly.


Once again, I would like to offer my unreserved apologies for my actions and any inconvenience caused to Govia Thameslink Railway and its staff.


Yours faithfully,

I'm conscious that this might be too brief so please let me know if that's the case. Should I include the part where I showed my ticket at the barriers but in a manner to avoid a thorough inspection? Which is how I got through.

I'd also like to ask if the original letter needs to be sent with my response, as the letter did go to my old address so I do not have it.

Thank you everyone!