Govia Thameslink taking me to court for not having a valid ticket

[surib23]

I have been sent a SJPN to either plead guilty or not guilty for not having a valid ticket. Essentially I was rushing and thought I had tapped in at Bellingham station with my bank card before getting on to the train and was asked on the train by an inspector for my ticket at Denmark hill station, I tapped my card and they told me it was not valid and took my details they mentioned I will receive a letter where I can explain what happened and I’m also seeing in the threads and online that I should have received an initial letter to explain my case and I could have possibly settled outside of court. I’ve only gone looking to see if such letter was sent and found it today but it’s already too late to send that back to them. So in this case if I plead guilty and pay the reduced fee regardless of not seeing the letter sent will I have a criminal offence on my record and also how long will that last? Will it show on my enhanced dbs? As essentially even if I plead not guilty as it was a mistake they only have to prove I did not tap in correctly.

 

[John R]

You should please not guilty to buy you some time, and at the same time write and apologise sincerely both for the offence, and for failing to read their initial letter in a timely manner.

Explain that you were not aware that the tap had failed to register and ask very politely if they would still be willing to offer an out of court settlement in lieu of prosecution.

Do post your draft here (preferably written without the help of AI, as these tend to sound insincere) and experts here will review it to make sure you are saying the right things.

 

[Hadders]

Which train company are you dealing with? Transport for London or Southeastern? Can you upload a copy of all the paperwork you have received in respect of this (do redact before uploading it). Include anything you were given on the day you were stopped.

Has your bank card been inspected on a train before? And do you know if this resulted in a maximum fare being charged because it hadn't been touched in?

 

[surib23]

Hi,

Thank you both for your replies I will be posting a draft of the letter shortly. I’m dealing with the Govia Thameslink Railway. I don’t have any of the paper work I was given on the day as I was just told I would receive a letter where I would have to explain what happened and give proof that I made payment. My bank card has not been inspected on the train before. The charge for the fare was £4 and prosecutions costs of £135. I’ve attached some of the documents that were sent to me yesterday. The rest of the paperwork was a witness statement the forms to fill out whether I want to plead guilty or not guilty.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2025 ==

This my draft for the letter

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute regarding the incident on 16th September 2024. I sincerely apologise for not responding sooner, as I was unaware that this letter had been sent to me.

On the 16th of September 2024, I was stopped by a Revenue Protection Inspector at Denmark Hill station and did not produce a valid ticket.

I boarded the train at Bellingham station that afternoon around 2:30PM. I was in a rush to catch the train on my way to work and was sure that I tapped in with my contactless card. In my rush I did not realise that my contactless card had failed to register at the time and I regret this mistake on my part. I take full responsibility for my actions.Please accept my deepest apologies.

I would be extremely grateful for the opportunity to resolve this matter out of court and I am willing to pay any outstanding fares, penalties, and prosecution costs incurred.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I sincerely appreciate your understanding.

Yours sincerely,

 

[Haywain]

I did not realise that my contactless card had failed to register at the time

It hadn't "failed to register" it had been declined. This means that it was blacklisted, which is the only way that the inspector would know there was a problem.

 

[surib23]

Hi, are you able to explain that further? Why would my card be blacklisted? And how does that affect my current case?

 

[Haywain]

Hi, are you able to explain that further? Why would my card be blacklisted?

Cards get blacklisted because of multiple failed validations or failed payments, I believe. A revenue inspection device can only do one of two things when presented with a contactless card - it can either record the tap which is sent to the back office or it can advise that the card is blacklisted and therefore not valid.

 

[surib23]

With my bank card I am able to tap in multiple times during the day even if full required amount for the fare, my card will be accepted and the full charge for my travel will be taken at a later time during the day. I will log in to my TfL account and see if there are any outstanding payments but even if I do pay it how would this affect my case?

 

[30907]

I will log in to my TfL account and see if there are any outstanding payments but even if I do pay it how would this affect my case?

It may help you see why your card was declined, but that's about it.

More importantly, you need to reword your response to refer to your card being declined - at least that shows you have read what GTR are saying

You should also reword the first paragraph - the letter you didn't respond to was one dated ddmmyyyy, not "this letter."

Delay making your plea to the court as long as possible to allow GTR to read your letter/mail and respond. If you plead not guilty and GTR take you to court you will be found guilty and the fine will be higher than if you had pleaded not guilty to start with.

 

[surib23]

Thank you, I have revised the letter. Please let me know if there are any more revisions I should make.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute regarding the incident on 16th September 2024. I sincerely apologise for not responding sooner, as I was unaware that the letter dated 19th of November 2024 had been sent to me.

On the 16th of September 2024, I was stopped by a Revenue Protection Inspector at Denmark Hill station and did not produce a valid ticket.

I boarded the train at Bellingham station that afternoon around 2:30PM. I was in a rush to catch the train on my way to work and was sure that I tapped in with my contactless card. In my rush I did not realise that my contactless card had declined at the time and I regret this mistake on my part. I take full responsibility for my actions.Please accept my deepest apologies.

I would be extremely grateful for the opportunity to resolve this matter out of court and I am willing to pay any outstanding fares, penalties, and prosecution costs incurred.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I sincerely appreciate your understanding.

Yours sincerely,

 

[notmyrealname]

If you don't have the name of a person to write to, then use Yours faithfully at the end.

I would also add their reference number, I use a separate line after Dear Sir or Madam and before the first sentence of the letter.

 

[surib23]

Thank you so much for your help, I will make the necessary changes and have the letter sent as soon as possible

 

[surib23]

Hi all,

I sent the letter and was given an out of court settlement which required me to pay £159, 14 days from when the letter was dated which was the 14th of February. Today, February 28th would be the 14th day and as it’s also my pay day I logged in to pay and couldn’t. Upon contacting the prosecutions office I’ve been told the settlement was withdrawn on the 25th of February and my court day is next Monday 3rd. I haven’t received any letters communicating this to me - I’ve double checked. They have given me the court email to plead guilty or not guilty. I just wanted to know the best steps to take and also if I have any case given they withdrew without my knowledge before the 14 days given

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

Here’s the letter that was sent to me

 

[AlterEgo]

Did they explain why the settlement was withdrawn prematurely? Did you ask them? Did you ask once more to settle the case?

 

[Haywain]

They have given me the court email to plead guilty or not guilty. I just wanted to know the best steps to take

I would advise against emailing a plea. You are supposed to be fully appraised of the proceedings against you in writing and as you haven't received anything, you should be able to apply to the court to have the case reheard, as you haven't had an opportunity to see the charge and evidence and enter a plea based on that. Others more expert in the legal system will be able to advise how this would be achieved.

I just wanted to know the best steps to take

Write to GTR explaining clearly what has happened with regard to your paying the settlement - don't mention being told it's going to court - offering to pay as soon as the opportunity is provided to you. Send a copy of this to their email address.

if I have any case given they withdrew without my knowledge before the 14 days given

No, that would not be a defence.

 

[surib23]

Did they explain why the settlement was withdrawn prematurely? Did you ask them? Did you ask once more to settle the case?

Yes, I asked if I could still settle they essentially said they were given a date to withdraw the case and it was before the 14 days given and now a court date has been set. I’m just confused as to why an accurate timeframe wasn’t given to me. That way I could make arrangements to pay early

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

I would advise against emailing a plea. You are supposed to be fully appraised of the proceedings against you in writing and as you haven't received anything, you should be able to apply to the court to have the case reheard, as you haven't had an opportunity to see the charge and evidence and enter a plea based on that. Others more expert in the legal system will be able to advise how this would be achieved.

Write to GTR explaining clearly what has happened with regard to your paying the settlement - don't mention being told it's going to court - offering to pay as soon as the opportunity is provided to you. Send a copy of this to their email address.

No, that would not be a defence.

Okayyy thank you, will get on that now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

Dear Sir/Madam,



I am writing in relation to my case x, regarding the out-of-court settlement offer I received on 14th February 2025. The letter stated that I had 14 days to make payment, with a deadline of 28th February 2025. However, I was only informed today (28th February 2025) that the settlement was withdrawn on 25th February 2025.



I fully intended to make the payment within the timeframe given, and I had planned to do so today, as this aligns with my payday. Unfortunately, the early withdrawal of the settlement meant I was denied the opportunity to comply within the original deadline. Had I been made aware of the withdrawal sooner, I would have sought to resolve the matter immediately.



I sincerely wish to settle this matter without the need for court proceedings and would like to request whether the prosecution would consider reinstating the original settlement offer of £159, which I am ready and able to pay immediately. Given that I was still within the payment period when the settlement was withdrawn, I respectfully ask if an exception could be made in this case.



I appreciate your time in reviewing my request and look forward to your response.



Yours Faithfully,

Would this be ok to send

 

[John R]

That sounds spot on to me.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, I asked if I could still settle they essentially said they were given a date to withdraw the case and it was before the 14 days given and now a court date has been set. I’m just confused as to why an accurate timeframe wasn’t given to me. That way I could make arrangements to pay early

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==


Okayyy thank you, will get on that now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

Dear Sir/Madam,



I am writing in relation to my case x, regarding the out-of-court settlement offer I received on 14th February 2025. The letter stated that I had 14 days to make payment, with a deadline of 28th February 2025. However, I was only informed today (28th February 2025) that the settlement was withdrawn on 25th February 2025.



I fully intended to make the payment within the timeframe given, and I had planned to do so today, as this aligns with my payday. Unfortunately, the early withdrawal of the settlement meant I was denied the opportunity to comply within the original deadline. Had I been made aware of the withdrawal sooner, I would have sought to resolve the matter immediately.



I sincerely wish to settle this matter without the need for court proceedings and would like to request whether the prosecution would consider reinstating the original settlement offer of £159, which I am ready and able to pay immediately. Given that I was still within the payment period when the settlement was withdrawn, I respectfully ask if an exception could be made in this case.



I appreciate your time in reviewing my request and look forward to your response.



Yours Faithfully,

Would this be ok to send

I reckon get it e-mailed to them ASAP - but also print it (ensure all your address and ref numbers are on it) take it to a post office before mid afternoon today and post it to them hard copy 1st class post tracked postage (if you do not want to pay the much more expensive guaranteed next day delivery post - but that's up to you)

Keep copies of everything.

The person you are speaking to on the phone likely has no 'decisions making' power soo is just telling you what has happened - which you know anyway - a written communication should be passed to someone who might have the power to reconsider.

head back for here over weekend for advice as needed on what to do if you have not heard back by court date deadline time.

 

[Haywain]

Would this be ok to send

I would say in the letter that you actually attempted to pay, and only found out about the withdrawal afterwards.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

head back for here over weekend for advice on what to do if you have not heard back by court date deadline time.

If no court papers are received, the thing to do is absolutely nothing.

 

[WesternLancer]

I would say in the letter that you actually attempted to pay, and only found out about the withdrawal afterwards.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

Sound advice

If no court papers are received, the thing to do is absolutely nothing.

Thanks, sorry, I totally agree, only just noticed the OP has only been told verbally about court over the phone. That is of course not a way to be informed about a court date or court action (you would expect to get official papers from the court not the railway company I would think) - and I suspect it's wrong possibly too - told by staff on phone who as I say may well not even have access to accurate info

Thanks for pointing this out @Haywain

 

[surib23]

I called back and spoke to another representative for clarification. They explained that this is not an official court date, which is why I haven’t received any notification. Instead, because this is a Single Justice Procedure (SJP), a magistrate will make the decision

I was informed of this in the court pack that was sent to me, which I received on January 27th. I had 21 days to respond, and on January 31st, I sent a letter requesting an out-of-court settlement, based on the advice in this thread. The deadline to plead guilty at the reduced rate was February 17th.

The out-of-court settlement letter was sent to me on February 14th, giving me 14 days to respond. However, this timeframe did not align with their internal deadline for withdrawing the case before a court date was set. Notably, I received the out-of-court settlement offer before my initial 21-day response period had expired.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

I have sent the email to the gtr prosecutions team

 

[WesternLancer]

If no court papers are received, the thing to do is absolutely nothing.

Now looking like OP did receive court papers

 

[surib23]

Now looking like OP did receive court papers

Yes, because of the mention of the case going to court from the person I first spoke to. I thought I had to be informed of that but the last lady explained that I didn’t have to be told as I only have to be present if I plead not guilty. I only had to respond to the court within the 21 days which I didn’t because I had received the settlement before the deadline.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, because of the mention of the case going to court from the person I first spoke to. I thought I had to be informed of that but the last lady explained that I didn’t have to be told as I only have to be present if I plead not guilty. I only had to respond to the court within the 21 days which I didn’t because I had received the settlement before the deadline.

Yes, understood - you have sent your e-mail so fingers crossed (Personally I would still send a posted copy as I mentioned above, the cost of this will be minimal compared with the higher cost to you of this going to court and the sentence, even if guaranteed delivery price)

Can you clarify what did you plead? (I am assuming guilty in order to obtain the reduced court fine for an early guilty plea). I note in post #2 @John R advised pleading 'not guilty' to buy more time, did you not do that? - apols I've not re read every post in the thread in my desire to reply to you speedily as time is of the essence of course.

I don't know how SJPNs work at the court when you don't have to go in person (eg if you have plead guilty) - i suspect they are indeed scheduled for being looked at by a magistrate on a set date and maybe that is the date you have been told verbally - others here may know

This is all very unfortunate to say the least

It may still be case that your letter / e-mail today reaches someone at GTR who can intervene and withdraw the case and allow your payment to be accepted. But I fear time is very tight.

 

[surib23]

I will send a posted copy today although I’m not entirely sure of when it would be received.

I haven’t actually pleaded anything yet as I assumed because I received the out of court settlement that the issue was resolved as long as I paid within the time frame given. I unfortunately didn’t go with the advice given in Johns post but another veteran member who said to delay the plea as long as possible as they would find me guilty even if I pleaded not guilty.

They did give me the court email over the phone to plead guilty or not guilty. Not sure if it’s worth pleading guilty now informing them of the initial out of court settlement letter and asking them to adjourn the case to give time for the payment to be taken by the GTR.

 

[Haywain]

I don't know how SJPNs work at the court when you don't have to go in person (eg if you have plead guilty) - i suspect they are indeed scheduled for being looked at by a magistrate on a set date and maybe that is the date you have been told verbally - others here may know

If it is scheduled for Monday, it will be heard on Monday in the absence of anything other than a 'Not guilty' plea.

 

[WesternLancer]

I will send a posted copy today although I’m not entirely sure of when it would be received.

Saturday (when no one there at work I suspect but you never know) or Monday - depends on what postal service you use to send it via Royal Mail - eg they have 'guaranteed next day delivery')

I haven’t actually pleaded anything yet as I assumed because I received the out of court settlement that the issue was resolved as long as I paid within the time frame given. I unfortunately didn’t go with the advice given in Johns post but another veteran member who said to delay the plea as long as possible as they would find me guilty even if I pleaded not guilty.

They did give me the court email over the phone to plead guilty or not guilty. Not sure if it’s worth pleading guilty now informing them of the initial out of court settlement letter and asking them to adjourn the case to give time for the payment to be taken by the GTR.

so you ignored returning papers to the court before the court deadline? (just to be clear)

I can see why your assumption was logical to you but I think the court and the railway are separate so the court process probably rumbles on on its own time frame once the railway have referred it to the court - if no plea by the courts deadline it just escalates I suspect. They won't know you are separately trying to negotiate a settlment with the railway - and probably don't care even if you told the court that

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

If it is scheduled for Monday, it will be heard on Monday in the absence of anything other than a 'Not guilty' plea.

is it feasible for the OP to send in a late plea (presumably a not guilty one) and get it to the curt ahead of Monday (ie take it to the court today on paper personally for example - or go there 9am Monday), and would that have any impact?

and is the court the same place listed in the address on the papers in post #4 in Willesden, or is that some sort of SJPN admin place?

I am no expert on court process so don't know but trying to think of practical things the OP could do to try and untangle this to get more time to get GTR to re-open the settlement offer and withdraw the case - it seems to me that the only way to do that is to get the case heard later than Monday by some means or another.

 

[Haywain]

is it feasible for the OP to send in a late plea (presumably a not guilty one) and get it to the curt ahead of Monday (ie take it to the court today on paper personally for example - or go there 9am Monday), and would that have any impact?

It may be appropriate to phone the court and ask if a not guilty plea can be entered, and to follow up with an emailed plea if the answer is in the affirmative (I would avoid explaining why). There is no point in going to the court on Monday morning though - the Single Justice Procedure isn't designed to have defendants attending.

 

[surib23]

Ok, just to clarify is the not guilty plea just to buy time to still settle out of court?

 

[WesternLancer]

Ok, just to clarify is the not guilty plea just to buy time to still settle out of court?

Yes. As I understand it from reading other threads on here over a fairly long time.

I’m not a lawyer I should add.