Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) Rebrand?

[Skimble19]

That GTR logo with the multicoloured lines is brand new - it's wasn't there a few days ago.

I presume it's to more clearly show that the following are a part of GTR:

• Thameslink
• Great Northern
• Southern
• Gatwick Express

Whereas before it looked like just the following were:

• Thameslink
• Great Northern

Actually it was made and released internally a couple of months back, but for some reason they've been incredibly slow uploading it online.. If you go down to the new offices you'll see it splashed all over the walls there.

But still, for a company that's supposedly made no money so far rebranding after just a year seems a very sensible idea!

 

[AM9]

Perhaps the franchise should have been let as a bundle of 4 train operating companies, to appease forum members.

Perhaps there should be some consistency mandated from DfT to avoid lay passengers being caught by a divisive arcane structure of commercial identities.

 

[Stats]

to appease forum members.

You'll never appease forum members. It's best to leave this thread to those forum members that like to create a problem where none exists.

 

[infobleep]

Weren't they meant to keep operations seperate? It's being split back into seperate operators after this franchise ends I think.

If that's the case then Southern branded trains shouldn't be pulling Gatwick Express services. They should be separate.

Also in the past, when Southern as a TOC existed, staff in Southern uniforms shouldn't have been doing ticket checks. Should have been Gatwick Express staff.

 

[yorkie]

You'll never appease forum members. It's best to leave this thread to those forum members that like to create a problem where none exists.

If only that were true! But it clearly isn't true (example). You may be happy for customers to be mistreated but I'm not.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If that's the case then Southern branded trains shouldn't be pulling Gatwick Express services. They should be separate.

Also in the past, when Southern as a TOC existed, staff in Southern uniforms shouldn't have been doing ticket checks. Should have been Gatwick Express staff.

After the 2008 merge but before the latest merge, the staff were Southern staff. They are now GTR staff.

 

[A-driver]

It's incredibly complicated at the moment as half the business says there IS a merge whilst the other half stresses it isn't. It is clearly southern taking over (not merging with) the GN & TL. THE GN route is being flooded with southern managers (wearing southern name badges) and they are attempting to force through southern working practices which are being knocked out by unions as they are generally forcing major T&C changes.

But I am 'branded' (in terms of uniform, equipment and publications) as GN, not GTR. I believe my payslip even says GN on the front (although my employer as far as the bank manager is concerned is GTR).

This franchise is only temporary. GN, TL and SN are not designed to be a single franchise for the long term, only to make the final stages of TL easier. Should all run to time then the next franchise will most likely see GN, TL & SN as 3 seperate franchises again. Infact the main reason FCC was created and broke up the WAGN was to aid thameslink extending services onto the GN.

GTR are also stressing hat no harmonisation will take place which is why the brands are quite important. Take drivers alone, ex FCC have a greater salary and far superior T&Cs to our southern brothers. Any attempt at harmonisation would cost a fortune as the SN drivers (a larger workforce) would want to be brought up to FCC standards.

It is 3 seperate companies in almost all respects being overseen very closely by southern (not GTR but southern).

 

[Skimble19]

It's incredibly complicated at the moment as half the business says there IS a merge whilst the other half stresses it isn't. It is clearly southern taking over (not merging with) the GN & TL. THE GN route is being flooded with southern managers (wearing southern name badges) and they are attempting to force through southern working practices which are being knocked out by unions as they are generally forcing major T&C changes.

But I am 'branded' (in terms of uniform, equipment and publications) as GN, not GTR. I believe my payslip even says GN on the front (although my employer as far as the bank manager is concerned is GTR).

This franchise is only temporary. GN, TL and SN are not designed to be a single franchise for the long term, only to make the final stages of TL easier. Should all run to time then the next franchise will most likely see GN, TL & SN as 3 seperate franchises again. Infact the main reason FCC was created and broke up the WAGN was to aid thameslink extending services onto the GN.

GTR are also stressing hat no harmonisation will take place which is why the brands are quite important. Take drivers alone, ex FCC have a greater salary and far superior T&Cs to our southern brothers. Any attempt at harmonisation would cost a fortune as the SN drivers (a larger workforce) would want to be brought up to FCC standards.

It is 3 seperate companies in almost all respects being overseen very closely by southern (not GTR but southern).

100% agree with this.. You'll also notice that nearly everything that was contracted out is being swapped over to whoever Southern use, the latest being the Car Park contact.. This has also resulted in the previous in-house Estates team being replaced by a contractor.

With regards to the payslip mine says GTR, even though I am GN.

Still, with morale at rock bottom and the company supposedly making a loss, things can only get better, right?

 

[A-driver]

100% agree with this.. You'll also notice that nearly everything that was contracted out is being swapped over to whoever Southern use, the latest being the Car Park contact.. This has also resulted in the previous in-house Estates team being replaced by a contractor.

With regards to the payslip mine says GTR, even though I am GN.

Still, with morale at rock bottom and the company supposedly making a loss, things can only get better, right?

My mistake, payslips do say GTR on them.

I'd wait for the December diagrams to come out and the refusal to discuss the pay rise due last year with the the rmt to come to boil before claiming moral can't get lower! It would seem it can't get any lower but it's definately going to get worse quite soon!

 

[Skimble19]

My mistake, payslips do say GTR on them.

I'd wait for the December diagrams to come out and the refusal to discuss the pay rise due last year with the the rmt to come to boil before claiming moral can't get lower! It would seem it can't get any lower but it's definately going to get worse quite soon!

Very true, although at least drivers supposedly got a pay deal agreed, although the latest rumour is the company are claiming not to be able to afford the second half of it!

Speaking of morale getting lower, a lot of us recently received two letters.. One from RMT and one from GTR:
The GTR letter essentially begged us to accept their pay offer, and included lines as pathetic as "to make sure you get it before Christmas". They also stated their was no more money available, and a load of nonsense about how "valued" we all are..
The RMT letter with attached referendum recommend we reject it.. I know which option me and my colleagues have taken! The union will then go back to the company, who are clearly not prepared to talk, and then the strike action ballot will be sent out..

 

[sarahj]

Very true, although at least drivers supposedly got a pay deal agreed, although the latest rumour is the company are claiming not to be able to afford the second half of it!

Speaking of morale getting lower, a lot of us recently received two letters.. One from RMT and one from GTR:
The GTR letter essentially begged us to accept their pay offer, and included lines as pathetic as "to make sure you get it before Christmas". They also stated their was no more money available, and a load of nonsense about how "valued" we all are..
The RMT letter with attached referendum recommend we reject it.. I know which option me and my colleagues have taken! The union will then go back to the company, who are clearly not prepared to talk, and then the strike action ballot will be sent out..

If you note, the letter from GTR did not mention anything about the actual sticking points. Since it was all supposed to be sorted by April 2015 its going on and on and on


As for branding, I used to get paid by Southern, now i get paid by GTR Thameslink according to my bank

 

[infobleep]

If only that were true! But it clearly isn't true (example). You may be happy for customers to be mistreated but I'm not.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

After the 2008 merge but before the latest merge, the staff were Southern staff. They are now GTR staff.

Well the same surely applies to GTR staff in that Gatwick Express is a separate company and should be treated separately so staff should be branded Gatwick Express and not be staff from another company.

Today I asked at Brighton if the 13.28 Thameslink service I was boarding was the Thameslink service as it was branded Southern. I was told it is and off I went on it.

The 13.25 service to Victoria was cancelled. I doubt anyone boarded this by mistake thinking it was the 13.25, as this was going to London Bridge but you never know. Whose to say there ticket would have been considered valid if it was Southern only one and an RPI checked? If they did check what clothes would the RPI be wearing? A GTR uniform; Thameslink one or Southern one?

 

[Stats]

If only that were true! But it clearly isn't true (example). You may be happy for customers to be mistreated but I'm not.

That is grossly offensive and I demand an apology. Nobody is being "mistreated" and I resent you suggesting that I am happy for anybody to be mistreated.

 

[asylumxl]

That is grossly offensive and I demand an apology. Nobody is being "mistreated" and I resent you suggesting that I am happy for anybody to be mistreated.

I'm not sure what you find offensive about what Yorkie has said.

I have seen it regularly on GTR run services, RPIs giving people misinformation and issuing penalty fares or unpaid fare notices for tickets that are technically valid. Seems like mistreating customers to me.

 

[yorkie]

That is grossly offensive and I demand an apology. Nobody is being "mistreated" and I resent you suggesting that I am happy for anybody to be mistreated.

Of course people are being mistreated, and I find it disappointing that some people are happy with that. I'm not, and I am more than willing to help those people. I've had quite a good success rate when Southern mistreated their customers using their Gatwick Express route. If some people don't like that, well that's tough!

 

[JaJaWa]

Well the same surely applies to GTR staff in that Gatwick Express is a separate company and should be treated separately so staff should be branded Gatwick Express and not be staff from another company.

Today I asked at Brighton if the 13.28 Thameslink service I was boarding was the Thameslink service as it was branded Southern. I was told it is and off I went on it.

The 13.25 service to Victoria was cancelled. I doubt anyone boarded this by mistake thinking it was the 13.25, as this was going to London Bridge but you never know. Whose to say there ticket would have been considered valid if it was Southern only one and an RPI checked? If they did check what clothes would the RPI be wearing? A GTR uniform; Thameslink one or Southern one?

Haven't they agreed to not charge people travelling with a GTR Thameslink ticket on a GTR Southern train? There's not any legal basis for doing so anyway.

 

[Southern Dvr]

At Southern we were told we would receive the same travel benefits as Great Northern/Thameslink staff and get a priv rate oyster card in September, we have heard nothing since.

Moral wise, well we are constantly reliant on overtime worse than ever before. Last March there was a week where nobody worked any overtime and the disruption was epic.

 

[A-driver]

Of course the HR director at GTR sent an email out to company council last Xmas saying he didn't believe in moral being low and pretty much believes it's just people moaning!

That was just before they started bulldozing through every term and condition, perk and benefit we had and then replacing a huge chunk of the workforce with agency staff and closing head office with little communication regarding relocation/redundancy options.

Lucky he dosnt believe in low morale is say!

 

[yorkie]

....GTR are also stressing that no harmonisation will take place which is why the brands are quite important....

There are several TOCS that were formed from multiple former TOCs, who don't have harmonisation and they don't have separate brands. XC and GWR are good examples of this. But yes, I get what you are saying, and you are right to fight to retain any conditions you have currently and no merger should ever be about making things worse for anyone (passengers or staff alike).

Haven't they agreed to not charge people travelling with a GTR Thameslink ticket on a GTR Southern train? There's not any legal basis for doing so anyway.

I agree there is no legal basis, but do we have such a commitment in writing? If so, I'd very much like to see it, as it would be great if they could publicly state that tickets that were previously only valid on one of the constituent defunct TOCs are valid throughout the new TOC, as per Condition 10.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

At Southern we were told we would receive the same travel benefits as Great Northern/Thameslink staff and get a priv rate oyster card in September, we have heard nothing since. .

Presumably you get free travel on all GTR operated services? They surely can't deny staff travel on services operated by the same Company.

 

[JaJaWa]

I agree there is no legal basis, but do we have such a commitment in writing? If so, I'd very much like to see it, as it would be great if they could publicly state that tickets that were previously only valid on one of the constituent defunct TOCs are valid throughout the new TOC, as per Condition 10.

No. The public-facing line is that separate tickets still exist (as they're cheaper than the any permitted variant) and that they will gradually be raised to the cost of the any permitted ticket over the next couple of years and then removed.

Presumably you get free travel on all GTR operated services? They surely can't deny staff travel on services operated by the same Company.

Think he's just referring to the Oyster.

 

[JonathanH]

No. The public-facing line is that separate tickets still exist (as they're cheaper than the any permitted variant) and that they will gradually be raised to the cost of the any permitted ticket over the next couple of years and then removed.


Think he's just referring to the Oyster.

Could the market "support" removal of the "Not Gatwick Express" tickets and raising of all fares to the Any Permitted level or is that not going to happen?

 

[JaJaWa]

Could the market "support" removal of the "Not Gatwick Express" tickets and raising of all fares to the Any Permitted level or is that not going to happen?

The plan is for the Thameslink and Southern only fares to go, but with Oyster charging at the 'Gatwick Express price', who knows!

 

[asylumxl]

Any idea what will happen to tickets such as London Terminals to Brighton Super Off-Peak Day Return, Thameslink Only? I can't see any Any Permitted equivalent.

 

[Skimble19]

Of course the HR director at GTR sent an email out to company council last Xmas saying he didn't believe in moral being low and pretty much believes it's just people moaning!

That was just before they started bulldozing through every term and condition, perk and benefit we had and then replacing a huge chunk of the workforce with agency staff and closing head office with little communication regarding relocation/redundancy options.

Lucky he dosnt believe in low morale is say!

He's living in cloud cuckoo land! Productivity is ridiculously low at the moment as nobody wants to do anything above the minimum they need to for a company that just treats us like dirt.. Removing all our benefits and perks was one thing, messing around with the pay talks another, but combine them with a complete disregard for us all, a lack of investment in anything other than the bare minimum, and using agency all over the place everyone is fed up! Let's not even mention the ridiculous situation of going from 1 office to seemingly 10 and half the people still don't seem to know what their jobs actually mean..!

I'm assuming you've heard what the COO supposedly said at a meeting with the Revenue staff at the North end of the line? Not exactly a great attitude.. Seems it stems from the very top with this lot, a very very different attitude than First..

I don't think the fact they keep banging on about being "together" is helping either..!

At Southern we were told we would receive the same travel benefits as Great Northern/Thameslink staff and get a priv rate oyster card in September, we have heard nothing since.

Moral wise, well we are constantly reliant on overtime worse than ever before. Last March there was a week where nobody worked any overtime and the disruption was epic.

Well since Southern merged those of us at GN/TL have lost our travel with VTEC and dependant PTAC passes due to the increased numbers so that went down well as you can imagine

 

[bramling]

He's living in cloud cuckoo land! Productivity is ridiculously low at the moment as nobody wants to do anything above the minimum they need to for a company that just treats us like dirt.. Removing all our benefits and perks was one thing, messing around with the pay talks another, but combine them with a complete disregard for us all, a lack of investment in anything other than the bare minimum, and using agency all over the place everyone is fed up! Let's not even mention the ridiculous situation of going from 1 office to seemingly 10 and half the people still don't seem to know what their jobs actually mean..!

I'm assuming you've heard what the COO supposedly said at a meeting with the Revenue staff at the North end of the line? Not exactly a great attitude.. Seems it stems from the very top with this lot, a very very different attitude than First..

I don't think the fact they keep banging on about being "together" is helping either..!



Well since Southern merged those of us at GN/TL have lost our travel with VTEC and dependant PTAC passes due to the increased numbers so that went down well as you can imagine

I believe the reciprocal agreement for staff travel with LU/TfL is due to be withdrawn next year, from what I hear this wasn't TfL's doing ...

 

[A-driver]

I believe the reciprocal agreement for staff travel with LU/TfL is due to be withdrawn next year, from what I hear this wasn't TfL's doing ...

Regarding TfL, now we still get a priv oyster but our nominees (ie partners) have lost theirs.

The priv oyster was introduced by FCC as they had a big tax saving through the pension contributions. So being automatically opted in was saving them money which they put towards the priv oyster. Now we no longer get the priv oyster but people are still automatically opted in.

I have personally opted out.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Another blow to all GTR staff there then.

 

[asylumxl]

It's rather interesting to hear the experiences and views of staff working for Govia. The opinion of them doesn't seem to be any better as employers than that of their customers.

 

[JaJaWa]

Maybe someone should start a petition on the government website to bring back First Capital Connect

 

[Southern Dvr]

It's rather interesting to hear the experiences and views of staff working for Govia. The opinion of them doesn't seem to be any better aa employers than that of of their customers.

Nail on head there.

 

[asylumxl]

Nail on head there.

I have fixed the typos in my original post. I didn't realise I made so many! Anyway, I remember Govia's first attempt at Thameslink and as much as people complained about First they were far better IMO.

You don't have to even have to look far to see Govia's utter contempt for their staff, just look at all the various London Midland strikes.

Maybe someone should start a petition on the government website to bring back First Capital Connect

You may joke, but I died inside when Govia was announced as the winners of the franchise.