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Govia Thameslink fails security test

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2HAP

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Govia Thameslink have apparently failed a Department for Transport security test which took place in November.

A busy rail route running through London has been put on terrorist alert after staff failed to find a fake bomb in a security test.

An internal memo urged staff to be “extra vigilant” after the firm failed a security test in which inspectors from the Department for Transport left an unattended bag containing a ‘suspicious item’ on a Thameslink train last November.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/railway-terror-alert-after-staff-9562777
 
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2HAP

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I'm sure they do take place on a regular basis, but the story is that the unattended bag was not dealt with in the correct manner.
 

LLivery

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Saw this yesterday with the evening standard claiming Thameslink "guards" missed it. Anyone who knows Thameslink, knows there have never been guards on Thameslink.
 

IKB

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Medis useless as ever at joining the dots...more chance of a bag going unnoticed on a TL train than any other as there's nobody on board except the driver. And when he (or she!) has got a 10 minute turnaround on a 12-car, they're not going to checking behind the seats. Predictable guff.
 

theageofthetra

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Medis useless as ever at joining the dots...more chance of a bag going unnoticed on a TL train than any other as there's nobody on board except the driver. And when he (or she!) has got a 10 minute turnaround on a 12-car, they're not going to checking behind the seats. Predictable guff.

More MSM drivel. Assumes the driver walks the length of the train inside and not along a platform. I will if sufficient turnaround time briefly look into the train as I walk up the platform mainly to check for a pax who has fallen asleep & try and knock on the glass to prevent them going back the other way. More often or not in the peak the platform is too crowded close to the train & will end up going up the quieter side.
 

QueensCurve

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I'm sure they do take place on a regular basis, but the story is that the unattended bag was not dealt with in the correct manner.

Indeed. At Waverly I found someone to whinge to on 7/7/07 when there were 4 large unattended rucksacks at the entrance to the waiting area.

PS. There is a typo in the thread heading. I thought it referred to a certain politician who has heard enough of experts. :(
 

AlterEgo

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The main threat these days isn't from bombs left in bags on the floor/a bin, it's a bomb worn by a person.
 

IKB

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The main threat these days isn't from bombs left in bags on the floor/a bin, it's a bomb worn by a person.

Be vigilant for both....the Boston marathon was IEDs, Haymarket after 7/7 was canisters in a car.
 

Bletchleyite

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The main threat these days isn't from bombs left in bags on the floor/a bin, it's a bomb worn by a person.

It seems to have moved on from that to automatic rifles, for which in the UK's case the security "cordon" is more or less around the outside of the country rather than at the entrance/exit of the railway.
 

physics34

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H.O.T

Is it Hidden
It is Obviously suspicious
Is it Typical of its location

Drummed into me from training lol

There used to be another T too!
 
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blackfrost

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Well soon there wont be any staff on board GTR trains so why does it matter? Guess it'll be up to the public to spot any suspicious items on trains eh!
 

AlterEgo

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H.O.T

Is it Hidden
It is Obviously suspicious
Is it Typical of its location

Drummed into me from training lol

There used to be another T too!

"Threat" - but now obsolete I think.
 

Simon11

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It sounds as if they only did this test once. One failure doesn't mean that security across all of gtr is failing.

If they had done 10 tests and not been discovered, this would be a serious issue.
 

rebmcr

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This is in no way news.
These 'tests' take place every day all across the network.

But in other organisations they are dealt with in the nature of goodwill. GTR have used up their goodwill so this exists in a different context.
 

route:oxford

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Drummed into me from training lol

The one that was drummed into my team was...

"Don't forget the fake device!"

After one dozy colleague left his bag containing a realistic but fake training device on the Park & Ride bus.

That was a phone call I don't want to have to make again!
 

Matt-the-mutt

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God I remember seeing the staff brief about this a few months ago, surprised it's only just "broken" into the open.

It's good to remember that even though this is a failure in security, these tests are done to highlight weakness, and normally when a TOC fails them they get a good kick up the arse, they send out briefs to staff to try and reduce the chances of a bag going unnoticed and being 'the one'
 

Mag_seven

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The main threat these days isn't from bombs left in bags on the floor/a bin, it's a bomb worn by a person.

Terrorists change their tactics all the time - don't assume that one type of terrorist "modus operandi" is more/less of a threat than any other! Any type of attack could happen at any time or place - be vigilant!
 
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6Gman

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God I remember seeing the staff brief about this a few months ago, surprised it's only just "broken" into the open.

It's good to remember that even though this is a failure in security, these tests are done to highlight weakness, and normally when a TOC fails them they get a good kick up the arse, they send out briefs to staff to try and reduce the chances of a bag going unnoticed and being 'the one'

But who is expected to notice such things? The driver's in his cab; the guard has been withdrawn; and the RP staff are sporadic ...
 

Hadders

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But who is expected to notice such things? The driver's in his cab; the guard has been withdrawn; and the RP staff are sporadic ...

Probably the platform staff at the terminal station who go through the train on its arrival (at least they seem to at Kings Cross).
 

AlexNL

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Or a member of the traveling public, who reports the suspicious bag to the BTP or a member of staff.

That's what the countless security announcements want them to do, right?
 

Busaholic

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The main threat these days isn't from bombs left in bags on the floor/a bin, it's a bomb worn by a person.

The guys at the Istanbul nightclub, the Paris pop concert and driving the lorry in Berlin were not aching to die themselves, so, while they may all be deluded psychopaths, they're not all quite so brainwashed as to seek martyrdom.
 

plymothian

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Tony Holland, GTR’s crime and security manager, told staff in the memo:”Disappointingly, the bag was not found despite being positioned in a public area of the train and railway personnel were seen to walk past the location.

physics34 said:
H.O.T

Is it Hidden
Is it Typical of its location

Given where it was left, the bag has passed all of these criteria at a glance.

...inspectors from the Department for Transport left an unattended bag containing a ‘suspicious item’ ...


physics34 said:
It is Obviously suspicious

What was it containing that was "suspicious": was it 'obviously suspicious' or was it only "suspicious" when opening it?
 
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43096

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The one that was drummed into my team was...



"Don't forget the fake device!"



After one dozy colleague left his bag containing a realistic but fake training device on the Park & Ride bus.



That was a phone call I don't want to have to make again!

More (in)famously there was a security training device left in Manchester United's ground after a training exercise a while back with predictable consequences when it was found on a match day.
 

BestWestern

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What this highlights is just how odd the idea of 'suspicious items' is, in an environment where just about everybody has a bag or suitcase and all have immediate, unchecked access to trains. If you really wished to leave a device on a train, you'd just put it in the luggage rack, in a plain bag just like everyone else's. The industry must of course follow the government instructions, but as ever it is the intelligence agencies who are really fighting the battle here, long before any dodgy ingredients make it as far as a railway station.

This is presumably why terrorists shifted their tactics to weapons, and have shifted again from firearms to more easily obtainable items, as seen with the knife and axe attacks recently on European trains. Indeed, I wonder how long before it is decided to remove the usual axe, crowbar etc from publically-accessible emergency cabinets on UK trains.
 
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QueensCurve

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It seems to have moved on from that to automatic rifles, for which in the UK's case the security "cordon" is more or less around the outside of the country rather than at the entrance/exit of the railway.

There are people within that "cordon" who may be motivated to make attacks
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Be vigilant for both....the Boston marathon was IEDs, Haymarket after 7/7 was canisters in a car.

That was Haymarket near Piccadilly Circus, not Haymarket, Edinburgh.
 
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