Govia prosecution statement receipt

[masiaw]

Hi, I’d appreciate other people’s opinion on the matter

Today, 04.07.24 I was given the govia statement that eventually I’ll receive a letter and they might or might not prosecute me.

I left Brighton today with my partner, we both hold a valid railcard 16-25. I bought tickets on my Trainline for us both. His journey was short just one stop as he was going to work, mine was to Luton Airport I was flying to see my parents.

When arriving to Luton airport parkway I by mistake refunded my ticket. As I was in hurry I decided to quickly buy another ticket from Luton to Luton airport and wrote on support live chat with Trainline to please cancel the refund request.

While that was happening I was asked to show my ticket and showed the one from Luton to Luton airport but the inspector started to question me a lot and I have strong anxiety so I said I had a ticket but refunded it by mistake but she wouldn’t believe me. She went through my Trainline and took a photo of my partners ticket instead stating as if I was committing fraud.

I apologised straight away, told her I already contacted Trainline, I can pay penalty fine or whole ticket right now. Yet she decided she needed to give me that prosecution paper.

Trainline has now written me a statement that I did indeed contact about mistakenly requesting a refund but it was unfortunately processed within seconds..

The inspector then was going on about my rights and asking if I understand it can be used and it just made me so stressed, triggered my anxiety even more and all I could think about is I am about to miss my flight. When she started to write down my things she kept on asking why am I unable to produce a ticket now and because I didn’t have time I just asked her if she can do it by herself and put in my explanation (since she had my details already).. she told me no so I just asked her to put “ no comment” for all as I simply couldn’t miss my flight.

Now onto the question. Should I explain all that again, show the email from Trainline stating I contacted them that it was by mistake etc, or simply just apologise and state it will never happen again?

I want to write them an email with my case number instead of waiting for letter first as it’s just too stressful for me and triggers my already bad anxiety even more while I’m supposed to be on holiday enjoying my time.

Sorry for long message, I appreciate any suggestions or help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2024 ==

I just realised I should’ve added also that it was with Thameslink. I couldn’t spend more time explaining myself so I decided to simply state no comment and that I’d explain that again on call/email

But now the anxiety is eating me up. Is there any number I can call about that? Is it fine to write the explanation straight away to their email instead of waiting for letter?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2024 ==

I don’t want to over explain or bombard them with plenty of information. Should I simply state I was in huge hurry, I cancelled my ticket by mistake and contacted Trainline (they gave me a statement supporting that) and when she kept asking I presented her the other tickets but as I was in huge hurry I couldn’t continue explaining.. apologise, say this will never happen again, it was an honest mistake, I’d be grateful if this could be settled out of court or happy to pay penalty? I’m not sure how to approach that..

Also I’m on holiday for few weeks and I think it would be best if I email them instead as what if they require a prompt response?

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Can you upload a copy of the paper work you were given (with personal details redacted). This is because it is important to understand whether you were given a Penalty Fare or were reported for further investigation so we can offer the best advice.

There is no point in contacting GTR until they contact you.

 

[GadgetMan]

Does Brighton have ticket barriers, if so, were both tickets scanned at the barrier?

Otherwise, it would seem as though you are doughnutting, buying short tickets for two ends of the journey with nothing in the middle (once the main ticket is refunded).

 

[AlbertBeale]

Does Brighton have ticket barriers, if so, were both tickets scanned at the barrier?

Otherwise, it would seem as though you are doughnutting, buying short tickets for two ends of the journey with nothing in the middle (once the main ticket is refunded).

Yes - Brighton has barriers - though it's sometimes possible to go through an open gate (where staff are checking tickets that don't work in the barriers) without your ticket going through (or being scanned at) the gate.

But indeed, if a valid ticket from Brighton to Luton was registered at the gate when departing, how could it have been subsequently refunded?

People here need more details of the tickets and the paperwork, and a clearer narrative, to be able to help effectively.

 

[GadgetMan]

But indeed, if a valid ticket from Brighton to Luton was registered at the gate when departing, how could it have been subsequently refunded?

The reason for asking was, if the boyfriends ticket was scanned but the refunded ticket wasn't, then it completely changes what happened.

 

[skyhigh]

But indeed, if a valid ticket from Brighton to Luton was registered at the gate when departing, how could it have been subsequently refunded?

You assume scan logs are routinely checked before refunds are issued...

 

[jon0844]

You assume scan logs are routinely checked before refunds are issued...

If you scan in, you won't be able to refund the ticket. Same if the ticket is scanned by revenue staff on their phone. Every scan is recorded for that ticket so you see the complete history easily - and so will whoever sold it.

 

[Wallsendmag]

You assume scan logs are routinely checked before refunds are issued...

It's an automated process

 

[masiaw]

Yes, only my boyfriend’s ticket was scanned. Yesterday there was a lot of news about trains not stopping on London Bridge until 9:30 so I ended up speaking with the personel about that whether my train would still arrive to Luton and then they just let me through without scanning my ticket..

Since the lady requested to see a ticket from Brighton right now and went through my Trainline she just took a photo of the other one.

And I explained the situation and only after she started to take all the notes but then she wanted loads of details and I simply didn’t have time so asked her if she can write what I said while I go catch my flight, but she said no so I said please put no comment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2024 ==

I was quite confused by Trainline stating no trains are going to London Bridge until later, my train was at 7:56. So I wanted to ask everything and then they just let me through. While my boyfriend went through with screenshot of his ticket (also bought from my account).

Either way, Trainline wrote me an email stating it’s true I tried to cancel the refund almost instantly through the chat, but as that was happening the lady stopped me.

I’m not sure whether I should go on to all those details in the email I’m planning to write to them and attach evidence from Trainline as well, or just apologise for my mistake and keep it short?

They can go through my account and see I’m travelling frequently (1-3 times a week), Brighton-Victoria/croydon/burgess hill. Last time I refunded something was last December.

I don’t want to loose their time and I’m not sure if that whole situation explanation changes anything or better to keep it short

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, only my boyfriend’s ticket was scanned.

That’s interesting. Yet, as yours hadn’t been scanned, you refunded it. It’s not actually that easy to refund a ticket on Trainline. You have to open up the booking, scroll all the way down, and find, in quite small font “refund ticket”. Then click that. Then click another confirmation that you’d then to refund that ticket. Then click you understand the fraud implications of refunding used tickets. So, a scroll, and at least three clicks.

I would not recommend saying you did it by accident as doing this is nearly impossible.

The company will, as a matter of course, audit all your ticket purchasing accounts as they may suspect this is not the first time this has happened.

 

[skyhigh]

That’s interesting. Yet, as yours hadn’t been scanned, you refunded it. It’s not actually that easy to refund a ticket on Trainline. You have to open up the booking, scroll all the way down, and find, in quite small font “refund ticket”. Then click that. Then click another confirmation that you’d then to refund that ticket. Then click you understand the fraud implications of refunding used tickets. So, a scroll, and at least three clicks.

I would not recommend saying you did it by accident as doing this is nearly impossible.

The company will, as a matter of course, audit all your ticket purchasing accounts as they may suspect this is not the first time this has happened.

From the point of view of the train company, it's highly convenient that the OP -
happened to be travelling with someone who was just going one stop
happened to only scan the other persons ticket at Brighton
happened to accidentally refund the ticket for the journey they were making - which is very hard to do by accident
happened to buy a ticket from Luton to Luton Airport Parkway (itself happening to be cheaper than Harpenden to Luton Airport Parkway - the previous stop).

Either the OP has accidentally managed to do everything a fare evader would try - or it was deliberate.

Regardless of that Thameslink will almost always settle every case even with a deliberate intent to evade fares. If the details given to us/Thameslink are untrue, making up a story will only harm the chances of a settlement.

 

[John R]

From the point of view of the train company, it's highly convenient that the OP -
happened to be travelling with someone who was just going one stop
happened to only scan the other persons ticket at Brighton
happened to accidentally refund the ticket for the journey they were making - which is very hard to do by accident
happened to buy a ticket from Luton to Luton Airport Parkway (itself happening to be cheaper than Harpenden to Luton Airport Parkway - the previous stop).

Either the OP has accidentally managed to do everything a fare evader would try - or it was deliberate.

Regardless of that Thameslink will almost always settle every case even with a deliberate intent to evade fares. If the details given to us/Thameslink are untrue, making up a story will only harm the chances of a settlement.

Added to which the boyfriend’s ticket was bought on the OP’s account, despite needing it until he completely exits the station at Preston Park, and will presumably need a ticket to get home.

It just won’t pass the “smell test” with GTR I’m afraid.

 

[JBuchananGB]

A person with a suspicious mind, and TOC's prosecution departments are known for their suspicious minds, might think something like this happened:
OP bought two tickets from Brighton. One for short journey and one to Luton Airport. They scanned the short journey ticket to gain access to the train. On arrival at Luton Airport, not having had the Airport ticket scanned, they used Trainline to refund that ticket and bought a short distance ticket to use to exit the station. This activity was noticed by an RPI who decided to investigate. Report for prosecution followed.
Either way the OP owes GTR the price of a ticket from Brighton to Luton Airport, and their reasonable administration expenses for having to deal with the irregularity.

 

[masiaw]

Sometimes I buy two same tickets when I’m travelling with my boyfriend, since I just share the screenshot with my boyfriend, they will be able to see that on my history as well (few times two tickets same way to airports or central London). Either way they can check my account on Trainline and see I’m travelling often and long journeys and not refunding them. I’m only really wondering if there’s even any point in me explaining all that or simply apologise as either way it’s my mistake. I don’t really want them to loose their time & resources and I’m completely fine with paying a fine or the settlement.

 

[MotCO]

A person with a suspicious mind, and TOC's prosecution departments are known for their suspicious minds, might think something like this happened:
OP bought two tickets from Brighton. One for short journey and one to Luton Airport. They scanned the short journey ticket to gain access to the train. On arrival at Luton Airport, not having had the Airport ticket scanned, they used Trainline to refund that ticket and bought a short distance ticket to use to exit the station. This activity was noticed by an RPI who decided to investigate. Report for prosecution followed.
Either way the OP owes GTR the price of a ticket from Brighton to Luton Airport, and their reasonable administration expenses for having to deal with the irregularity.

This seems more plausible than the 'accidentally refunded the ticket having gone through several hoops' story.

To the OP: if this is what has happened, it is better to be truthful and own up - the train company will probably find out anyway, and they won't be so accommodating.

 

[JBuchananGB]

You can be sure that GTR will spend their time and resources looking at all your online ticket purchasing habits, including short tickets near Brighton and Luton Airport, and refunds of any tickets. They will be particularly interested in incidents like the recent one when you bought a short ticket from Brighton and a ticket to the airport, then let your boyfriend use your short ticket (by means of a screenshot), when you boarded the train at the same time, and then refunded the airport ticket. They will assume that in each and every case of such ticket activity in your Trainline history, that you were seeking to evade the proper fare. They will not recognise the term 'mistake'. They will consider this activity to be intentional. They will not be interested in those times when you had such tickets and they were scanned or not refunded.

 

[jon0844]

They can also check which tickets were scanned in and out. If all the Brighton ones were never scanned out at the destination, and the Luton Airport to Luton ones not tapped in, I think it will be a slam dunk.

Hundreds, if not thousands, of people are being caught doing these frauds every week. You may as well be honest because they already know.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

At the time the OP was travelling, the Anytime Day Single to Preston Park costs £3.50.
A ‘cheerio’ to the OP, a walk round the back of the station, down to London Road and a 5 5a or 5b bus to Preston Park would have cost the boyfriend £2….

 

[MotCO]

The last four or five posters are all drawing the same conclusion. If you want us to help, (and if you look through the ticket disputes posts we do give good advice and the benefit of our experience, and posters tend to get good results - and for free!) you do need to level with us. We do not criticise or reprimand you for any misdemeanours - we just want the truth so we can offer the best advice.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sometimes I buy two same tickets when I’m travelling with my boyfriend, since I just share the screenshot with my boyfriend, they will be able to see that on my history as well (few times two tickets same way to airports or central London). Either way they can check my account on Trainline and see I’m travelling often and long journeys and not refunding them. I’m only really wondering if there’s even any point in me explaining all that or simply apologise as either way it’s my mistake. I don’t really want them to loose their time & resources and I’m completely fine with paying a fine or the settlement.

I would not advise you use the explanation you suggest as I do not think a train company will believe it to be true. It’s such an unlikely sequence of events that no reasonable person would think it were a plausible explanation of what happened.