Govia get Thameslink Franchise

[infobleep]

Can people be TUPE over and then made redundant straight away then?

 

[Bald Rick]

Can people be TUPE over and then made redundant straight away then?

Yep. TUPE obliges the new employer to transfer the individual in post and their terms and conditions of employment. But if the work isn't there, then redundancy can be applied.

Of course in the case of directors, often the work is there, in which case redundancy is done with a compromise agreement which obliges those leaving not to take the matter further. Usually by an additional incentive.

This isn't peculiar to the rail industry, it happens everywhere where a company takes over a new contract and TUPE applies.

 

[jon0844]

I would have thought that at management level, anyone being offered the job for a franchise which has a limited time to run would know the conditions and the 'risk' is factored into the pay, as well as any compromise agreement that further gives a 'benefit' but was probably discussed from the outset.

I just wonder if the parent company would simply let people go, or actually have plans in place to move them elsewhere - so the job might change, and the location, but nobody who was in management is thrown on the street.

Then again, some people might be happy to end their employment and seek work elsewhere anyway.

 

[Richard1960]

Yep. TUPE obliges the new employer to transfer the individual in post and their terms and conditions of employment. But if the work isn't there, then redundancy can be applied.

Of course in the case of directors, often the work is there, in which case redundancy is done with a compromise agreement which obliges those leaving not to take the matter further. Usually by an additional incentive.

This isn't peculiar to the rail industry, it happens everywhere where a company takes over a new contract and TUPE applies.

It does indeed i work in the NHS and am in the middle of a TUPE transfer( NHS Staff) to a new social enterprise outfit, as a Union rep soon as they are go over,they go straight away into another consultation.

With jobs losses almost guaranteed.

So its not just the rail industry.

 

[Pretendolino]

As somebody at management level in Southern, the atmosphere is rather strange. We're told it is 'business as usual' but we don't really have an idea of who is part of the new plans.

Naturally, there's going to be some casualties, whether voluntary or otherwise. For example, there's quite a few people who live on the South Coast who won't want to commute up to London. You've also got those nearing retirement who will probably just call it a day.

I'm hoping it is a fair and transparent process with regards to the TUPE'ing over but I do fear for my position. You only have to look at the current appointment of Directors to see how poorly Southern have fared so far...

 

[LBSCR Times]

You only have to look at the current appointment of Directors to see how poorly Southern have fared so far...

And how many have come from the previous franchise.....
At least one of the plum jobs went to a former Southern Director, Engineering!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Generally speaking - at Franchise change - the higher you are in the chain - the more vulnerable you are. MD's in particular.

 

[jon0844]

But their salary must reflect being effectively a fixed term contract. No need to lose too much sleep, especially if they're kept on in some other role after as you might expect if they were any good.

 

[Chrisgr31]

You only have to look at the current appointment of Directors to see how poorly Southern have fared so far...

Slightly odd that if true as in my opinion Southern do a good job most of the time.

 

[Bald Rick]

Under new management, once Chris Burchell went it was only a matter of time.

 

[talldave]

In terms of pension rights, tupe's about as much use as the proverbial chocolate teapot.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Unbranded Southern? If so, it's been like that a while as it was never painted into FCC colours when Southern gave it to FCC.

Having looked in more detail, a Southern train has just 2 logos per 4 car set (looking at one side of the train!) on coaches 1 & 4 whilst a Thameslink train has none. As I discovered yesterday whilst running for a train, it's not very easy to tell them apart, but is quite important to get right if you have a Southern only ticket!

 

[grid56126]

In terms of pension rights, tupe's about as much use as the proverbial chocolate teapot.

I have TUPEd twice and made a sideways move once into a new company who agreed to take on my existing conditions and I have not suffered at all and I fail to see what you are referring to. Whilst this is going off topic it is very relevant to the companies being discussed, sort of a magic roundabout for me...

 

[jon0844]

My wife has been moved via TUPE with no ill effects, but she and I know that this isn't always the case.

If a company that takes you over moves you to another location then you're really buggered if you don't fancy the move or extra travel time as one of many examples.

About the only good thing, if you can call it that, is that you need to be made redundant and can't just be forced to accept or resign.

 

[talldave]

Tupe doesn't protect pension arrangements. If your current employer makes generous contriutions, the one you get tupe'd to has no obligation to maintain them.

 

[infobleep]

In terms of pension rights, tupe's about as much use as the proverbial chocolate teapot.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Having looked in more detail, a Southern train has just 2 logos per 4 car set (looking at one side of the train!) on coaches 1 & 4 whilst a Thameslink train has none. As I discovered yesterday whilst running for a train, it's not very easy to tell them apart, but is quite important to get right if you have a Southern only ticket!

Perhaps they want you to get it wrong so they can make additional money out of you. Okay I'm in fantasy land here. I do think though it would have been helpful to have them more separate. Wonder how many people got caught out?

 

[Class377/5]

The Southern liveried 319s have been on TL / FCC services since at least 2009 when the Moorgate branch closed and all the 319s were transferred to the Thameslink route. (The Southern branding has gone however).

Using Southern liveried 377s is a much more recent phenomenon, driven by the arrival of new 377/6s & /7s, releasing /2s to Thameslink which in turn allowed 319s to got for refurb and/or ooop North.

Class377/5 will be along shortly to point out what I've got wrong..

Spot on info wise. The reason the 319s are in Southern livery is because they were never planned to stay this long on Thameslink with the TRSP or Class 700s as we now know they were due to be introduced from Feb 2012. As a result there was no business case for reliverying the units so they've stayed the same. They will only change once they visit Wolverton.

The reason initial three 377/2's (207/211/212) were originally expected to be in Southern livery but when Southern and FCC sat down to arrange the loan from Dec 2011 it was clear that the units would be around far longer, the chance was taken to put them in FCC colours. Especially as they were to be marked with TLP signage (the speech bubbles still on the units today). The more recent 377/2 transfers were not reliveried due to franchise changes.

Lets also note putting viynals on a train isn't cheap at around 10k per carriage, so the 23x 377/5 alone would cost nearly £1m. Its a expenditure that demands a business case.

None of them were "sacked", and not all of them have left the company..

Indeed, some director is currently staying on that I know of.

Remember Govia is still getting its management team together. There was five high level appointments made this week alone.

 

[physics34]

Spot on info wise. The reason the 319s are in Southern livery is because they were never planned to stay this long on Thameslink with the TRSP or Class 700s as we now know they were due to be introduced from Feb 2012. As a result there was no business case for reliverying the units so they've stayed the same. They will only change once they visit Wolverton.

The reason initial three 377/2's (207/211/212) were originally expected to be in Southern livery but when Southern and FCC sat down to arrange the loan from Dec 2011 it was clear that the units would be around far longer, the chance was taken to put them in FCC colours. Especially as they were to be marked with TLP signage (the speech bubbles still on the units today). The more recent 377/2 transfers were not reliveried due to franchise changes.

Lets also note putting viynals on a train isn't cheap at around 10k per carriage, so the 23x 377/5 alone would cost nearly £1m. Its a expenditure that demands a business case.



Indeed, some director is currently staying on that I know of.

Remember Govia is still getting its management team together. There was five high level appointments made this week alone.

Any more units around with Thameslink logos on yet or is it still just 319009? Or any 365s or any other GN units got their logo on yet?

 

[Pretendolino]

Remember Govia is still getting its management team together. There was five high level appointments made this week alone.

I haven't heard about this. Any idea what positions and who filled them?

 

[Class377/5]

I haven't heard about this. Any idea what positions and who filled them?

There was a staff brief. Don't recall the details.

Any more units around with Thameslink logos on yet or is it still just 319009? Or any 365s or any other GN units got their logo on yet?

Not seen any others yet but not sure if there are more.

 

[jon0844]

I haven't heard about this. Any idea what positions and who filled them?

Some finance positions, filled with people from Tesco?

 

[talldave]

The info screen at Blackfriars warning about oyster swipe ins and zone boundaries refers to GTR services. Surely most passengers have no idea what GTR is, since all branding is Thameslink and Great Northern?

 

[infobleep]

Spot on info wise. The reason the 319s are in Southern livery is because they were never planned to stay this long on Thameslink with the TRSP or Class 700s as we now know they were due to be introduced from Feb 2012. As a result there was no business case for reliverying the units so they've stayed the same. They will only change once they visit Wolverton.

The reason initial three 377/2's (207/211/212) were originally expected to be in Southern livery but when Southern and FCC sat down to arrange the loan from Dec 2011 it was clear that the units would be around far longer, the chance was taken to put them in FCC colours. Especially as they were to be marked with TLP signage (the speech bubbles still on the units today). The more recent 377/2 transfers were not reliveried due to franchise changes.

Lets also note putting viynals on a train isn't cheap at around 10k per carriage, so the 23x 377/5 alone would cost nearly £1m. Its a expenditure that demands a business case.



Indeed, some director is currently staying on that I know of.

Remember Govia is still getting its management team together. There was five high level appointments made this week alone.

Wow. I never knew it was so expensive to change the train colours. Perhaps in future all trains should have standard colours per franchise with just logo changes. The money saved could be ploughed into other areas.

I mean South West Trains are having trains reconditioned and colours changed, yet their franchise doesn't have that long to run. If they lose it then all the trains might be changed again at great expense. I actually don't want them to lose it mind you.

 

[infobleep]

Remember Govia is still getting its management team together. There was five high level appointments made this week alone.

Will Southern staff ha e a good chance at getting positions, given the company is separate until next year? Or would it be a case of they leave Southern and Southern has an interim person until next year.

Restructures are never easy, even those done in phases. I speak from experience.

 

[philjo]

Obviously a slip of the tongue - there was a manual announcement while I was waiting on the platform last night which said it was a "First Great Northern" service!

 

[Class377/5]

Will Southern staff ha e a good chance at getting positions, given the company is separate until next year? Or would it be a case of they leave Southern and Southern has an interim person until next year.

Restructures are never easy, even those done in phases. I speak from experience.

Some of the appointments are Southern secondments.

 

[buz33]

I am still getting text alerts from my commuting days, which is an old system that I signed up to years ago - and can't edit or stop because I have no access to the system to change them!

The alerts don't have FCC in the text anymore, but nor GTR.

I thought that was JourneyCheck but now I'm not sure, or maybe they'll stop soon?

JourneyCheck are still providing text alerts for GTR. If you can remember the login details then maybe this will help.

https://www.journeycheck.com/gtr/login

 

[robin.joe.son]

Hi all,

Thanks for the abundance of information, I found this site very helpful. I currently travel from Tattenham Corner into London Bridge / Victoria and heard that the trains would run longer into the night by 2018 (am I dreaming?)

I couldn't find any information about the speed of the train and journey times in 2018, would I be lucky enough to enjoy a faster journey than my current 50+ minutes into London?

If anyone know anything about this, I would really appreciate your feedback! Thanks!

Joe

 

[Class377/5]

Hi all,

Thanks for the abundance of information, I found this site very helpful. I currently travel from Tattenham Corner into London Bridge / Victoria and heard that the trains would run longer into the night by 2018 (am I dreaming?)

I couldn't find any information about the speed of the train and journey times in 2018, would I be lucky enough to enjoy a faster journey than my current 50+ minutes into London?

If anyone know anything about this, I would really appreciate your feedback! Thanks!

Joe

The report NR did a few years back looked at 3-5mins time saving achieved by better rolling stock capabilities along with less pathing time into Thameslink London Bridge platforms then the low level. If your normal services attaches/splits today then there's another few minutes saved.

Of course Govia's proposed timetable may affect the about points and I've not seen it personally.

 

[Lknowles78]

Hi all,

Thanks for the abundance of information, I found this site very helpful. I currently travel from Tattenham Corner into London Bridge / Victoria and heard that the trains would run longer into the night by 2018 (am I dreaming?)

I couldn't find any information about the speed of the train and journey times in 2018, would I be lucky enough to enjoy a faster journey than my current 50+ minutes into London?

If anyone know anything about this, I would really appreciate your feedback! Thanks!

Joe

Your trains will also run to Welwyn Garden City and beyond to Cambridge and Peterborough.

Living in Welwyn Garden City, I was hoping to be able to travel to Brighton and Gatwick without changing. Instead we get trains to famously partnered destinations such as Tattenham Corner. Exactly where the people of Welwyn Garden City want to go! Not!

 

[jopsuk]

There's little about journey times, but one reasonably firm thing seems to be that Tattenham Corner will have a half hourly, 8-car Thameslink service to Cambridge all day