Govia get Thameslink Franchise

[GodAtum]

Who guessed right then?

I'm worried about too much change. I like my services atm (I get a 0739, 0742 ans 0744 at ECR)

 

[ModernRailways]

To any current Southern (or any Govia franchise for that matter) employees: do you have an internal rewards site with things like Cineworld tickets etc. on?

Go North East staff have corporate benefits so I'd imagine Southern employees would get the same as they are part of the same overall group (Go Ahead).

 

[theageofthetra]

At present I believe If you are employed by a Govia TOC, Southeastern/Southern etc your staff travel pass gives you free travel on any Govia owened servive, presumably this will soon include the new Thameslink TOC? If so that is a big bonus if you live in London.

 

[infobleep]

There's still plenty of time for changes to the service pattern baring in mind that the proposed service pattern is probably the minimum obligations for the serviced and Govia will probably be able to introduce more services if they like

What benefits would Govia get in going beyond the agreed franchise agreement? Where would they get the rolling stock from?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[A-driver]

I would say that personally I feel there is more to work than what free travel we get, however given the choice between go ahead and first for travel id go with first. I'm pretty confident the east coast free weekend travel will remain unchanged as east coast need free travel on the GN for operational purposes. But with first we get free travel on scotrail, tpe, FCC, great western and hull trains.

 

[physics34]

All interesting stuff. I'm wondering what will happen with liveries?
Go-via announced that they are keeping the southern branding.... I presume that means southern livery will remain on all non-Thameslink stock. (I hope not cos it's due a change)

I'm pretty sure that they will want rid of first capital connect livery as soon as when they take over the running from September, wonder if they will just remove all the vinyl and run around in the undercoat underneath.

And have we heard that the tsgn livery on those couple of 365s will definitely be the new livery for all Thameslink stock??

 

[jon0844]

They're bringing back Thameslink aren't they? And using Great Northern for the GN route. Trains that run through from the ECML to the core and beyond presumably also being branded Thameslink?

Perhaps a bit messy and if stock is moved, even more confusing?

There needs to be a 'catch all' name, like the Govia logo and 'Southern', 'Thameslink' and 'Great Northern' just written as text.

From September, you could keep Capital Connect but with the First logo removed on a temporary basis.

 

[al.currie93]

All interesting stuff. I'm wondering what will happen with liveries?
Go-via announced that they are keeping the southern branding.... I presume that means southern livery will remain on all non-Thameslink stock. (I hope not cos it's due a change)

I'm pretty sure that they will want rid of first capital connect livery as soon as when they take over the running from September, wonder if they will just remove all the vinyl and run around in the undercoat underneath.

And have we heard that the tsgn livery on those couple of 365s will definitely be the new livery for all Thameslink stock??

I too hope that they change the livery, I like Southern's but I prefer the new Thameslink livery I personally hope that they roll this out en-masse, but with the blue on the doors also being on that thick white diagonal stripe at the ends of each carriage. Brand all of it 'Southern'.

In fact I'd like to see this livery applied nationwide, but with differing colours for the doors and diagonal stripe for each franchise, but I can only dream :P

 

[whoosh]

Kings Lynn trains - Reading between the lines at the "more modern air-conditioned trains", and the Cambridge to London "journey time reduced to under 50 minutes". Notice they haven't called them 'new trains', I think this is because they will be trains they'll already have. Air-conditioning isn't part of the Class 365 refurbishment.

I would say these services from Kings Lynn to Kings Cross will be with 110mph capable Class 387s.

 

[swt_passenger]

Perhaps a bit messy and if stock is moved, even more confusing?

Presumably though 'Thameslink' livery will be on 700s only - and they are not likely to be moved to any other routes, given their specialist nature. Likewise there should be little reason for any 377/x to appear on the GN, or whatever stock the GN sub brand is left with for the Kings Cross services appearing elsewhere than on the GN.

A theoretical problem only?

 

[jcevans]

Can't the defunct Capital Connect stock be taken over by Northern? They are much longer then the majority of Northerns stock.

 

[Lufcman]

Can't the defunct Capital Connect stock be taken over by Northern? They are much longer then the majority of Northerns stock.

Northern are already getting 14 x 319s from FCC

 

[swt_passenger]

Can't the defunct Capital Connect stock be taken over by Northern? They are much longer then the majority of Northerns stock.

That is definitely the plan - there are a number of lengthy threads on the subject of 319s to Northern, this being the current one:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100315

 

[physics34]

They're bringing back Thameslink aren't they? And using Great Northern for the GN route. Trains that run through from the ECML to the core and beyond presumably also being branded Thameslink?

Perhaps a bit messy and if stock is moved, even more confusing?

There needs to be a 'catch all' name, like the Govia logo and 'Southern', 'Thameslink' and 'Great Northern' just written as text.

From September, you could keep Capital Connect but with the First logo removed on a temporary basis.

they said they will be retaining the gatwick express and southern brands and that they will be bringing back the thameslink brand, but there was no mention of Great Northern. Maybe this will be also "Thameslink", hence the 365s in tsgn livery.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I too hope that they change the livery, I like Southern's but I prefer the new Thameslink livery I personally hope that they roll this out en-masse, but with the blue on the doors also being on that thick white diagonal stripe at the ends of each carriage. Brand all of it 'Southern'.

In fact I'd like to see this livery applied nationwide, but with differing colours for the doors and diagonal stripe for each franchise, but I can only dream :P

I too would prefer there to be less, but nicer liveries, ie sectors like in big sectors like the old days....NSE, Intercity, Regional Railways etc etc, with the return of the double arrows, with the only difference being the TOCs operating name and logo, but on standard liveries.

 

[jon0844]

I hope ALL the trains get the TSGN livery and it's only the text underneath the windows that will differentiate them, and even then I have to wonder if that's necessary.

Once there's fixed stock for every route, you could mark them up, but surely until that all gets sorted come 2018 then we'll still have mixed use. And I'm wondering how we'll see things 'branded' until then.

I still don't know what the brand name for the whole franchise is going to be. What's the web site going to be called and the URL?

 

[A-driver]

Regarding livery, all trains in the country are to be in the white/grey livery in the next couple of franchises. As is all staff uniforms. Part of the money saving-any operator will run with existing uniforms and liverys.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Sorry if it's already been discussed but is there any word on how they plan to increase capacity to Uckfield?

Suggestions of 172s from GOBLIN.
But Southern won't want a few non-standard trains on its patch.
Class 165 Networkers from GW are another possibility, maybe exchange all their 170 fleet for them.
Otherwise they'll poach 170s from further north.

 

[Aictos]

Do hope Great Northern route branding is used for all non Thameslink services via City Thameslink by that I mean existing GN services that won't go though the core.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Suggestions of 172s from GOBLIN.
But Southern won't want a few non-standard trains on its patch.
Class 165 Networkers from GW are another possibility, maybe exchange all their 170 fleet for them.
Otherwise they'll poach 170s from further north.

Would 6 x 170/6 from LM with LM getting the GOBLIN 172s work?

 

[danielson00]

RE - Brighton to Cambridge

When travelling Brighton to Bury St Edmunds....The cynical side of me thinks any cheap tickets between these two destinations, will still involve a change at Victoria/London Bridge and Kings Cross/Liverpool St and Ipswich!

As at the moment, no advance ticket routes me BTN to St Pancras, but always BTN to VIC, then tube to KingsX , or FCC to London Bridge, then AGA Liverpool St/Ipswich.

 

[paul1609]

RE - Brighton to Cambridge

When travelling Brighton to Bury St Edmunds....The cynical side of me thinks any cheap tickets between these two destinations, will still involve a change at Victoria/London Bridge and Kings Cross/Liverpool St and Ipswich!

As at the moment, no advance ticket routes me BTN to St Pancras, but always BTN to VIC, then tube to KingsX , or FCC to London Bridge, then AGA Liverpool St/Ipswich.

I think you are probably right at least till the Thameslink link to the East Coast Main Line link opens. Its because a Fast Victoria train 51 mins plus the interchange time from Victoria to kings Cross is shorter than a Brighton to St Pancras train 1 hr 14 mins plus the interchange time from St Pancras to Kings Cross. Currently you also get the peak time bonus of trundling around the South London Suburbs on what at time appears to be a magical mystery tour at very slow speed.

 

[Manchester77]

Suggestions of 172s from GOBLIN.
But Southern won't want a few non-standard trains on its patch.
Class 165 Networkers from GW are another possibility, maybe exchange all their 170 fleet for them.
Otherwise they'll poach 170s from further north.

Interesting thanks Would FGW want a mixed length micro fleet with them though when they could keep their networker turbos and retain a relatively common fleet?

Would 6 x 170/6 from LM with LM getting the GOBLIN 172s work?

For a 50% increase in capacity they would need 21 extra carriages however the 6 170/6s only deliver 18 extra carriages. London Midland would also be short changed with 2 carriages missing.
However following Scottish electrification projects I wonder if ScotRail could release 7 170/4s which would be 21 carriages to southern. That would deliver the planned 50% increase and would be possible since the only fixed assets of the ScotRail franchise are the 380s.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Interesting thanks Would FGW want a mixed length micro fleet with them though when they could keep their networker turbos and retain a relatively common fleet?


For a 50% increase in capacity they would need 21 extra carriages however the 6 170/6s only deliver 18 extra carriages. London Midland would also be short changed with 2 carriages missing.
However following Scottish electrification projects I wonder if ScotRail could release 7 170/4s which would be 21 carriages to southern. That would deliver the planned 50% increase and would be possible since the only fixed assets of the ScotRail franchise are the 380s.

Chase Line Electrification would mean LM could cope with the small defecit in 170s. If you move the GOBLIN 172s to LM (and perhaps LM swap four 170/5s with the Chiltern 172s) that would remove some of the micro fleet issues, just a thought.

 

[Manchester77]

Chase Line Electrification would mean LM could cope with the small defecit in 170s. If you move the GOBLIN 172s to LM (and perhaps LM swap four 170/5s with the Chiltern 172s) that would remove some of the micro fleet issues, just a thought.

Interesting looks as if there will be a few options available to GoVia for their capacity increase.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Interesting looks as if there will be a few options available to GoVia for their capacity increase.

Clearly there would need to be some work done i.e. Coupling changes to the 170s going south and loos fitted to LO 172s coming north.

I see your earlier point about 50% capacity but with a larger fleet of 171s south of the Thames give the option of better diagramming, dont know the patch?

 

[mister-sparky]

So it's only going to be 16tph through the core off-peak? I thought the idea was a minimum of 20?

The previous 'provisional timetable', (which most on this forum was amadamant wasn't going to change), also said there was going to be all day services to Caterham, peak only to Tunbridge Wells and Ashford, and all day to Maidstone. What's happened to these?

 

[A-driver]

So it's only going to be 16tph through the core off-peak? I thought the idea was a minimum of 20?



The previous 'provisional timetable', (which most on this forum was amadamant wasn't going to change), also said there was going to be all day services to Caterham, peak only to Tunbridge Wells and Ashford, and all day to Maidstone. What's happened to these?

Nothing that has been published up until now has been in anyway definate and that has been made very clear. There were suggested service plans published but it was never going to be released as definate until a decision was made as to who would run the services. So ignore all that was published previous, service patterns published from now on, whilst still most certainly subject to change, are more reliable.

As for the caterhams, the original proposals never included the Sutton rounders. These were reinstated as the locals kicked up a stink. Therefore they will be using up some of the capacity north of st pancras.

 

[grid56126]

They can't run the diesels to Victoria (Central side) without turning the fire alarms off first as the smoke extractors were placed to deal with the old thumpers not the new turbostars.

Tests take place soon to see if these deal with 171s after mods. This does NOT infer service changes, but does allow diversion during perturbation.

 

[Manchester77]

Clearly there would need to be some work done i.e. Coupling changes to the 170s going south and loos fitted to LO 172s coming north.

I see your earlier point about 50% capacity but with a larger fleet of 171s south of the Thames give the option of better diagramming, dont know the patch?

Yes any 170 which went South would probably be converted to a 171 by changing the coupler.

Yes it does improve diagraming by having an increased number of units which might be good especially with the London Bridge blockade too. The 50% figure is from the DfT website which is what I assume is in the franchise commitment meaning GoVia will need to stick with it.

 

[grid56126]

Sorry if it's already been discussed but is there any word on how they plan to increase capacity to Uckfield?

A very simple answer is the 6 x 170 from TPE.

These were mooted for a Chiltern move which has now, apparently been stopped (?).

The documents released yesterday state Marshlink stays as is.

If you put those 6 x 170 on Marshlink you have a very shrewd use. No requirement to mod couplings to 171 standard. 5 x diagrams required (as now) and 1 x spare for maintenance. This frees up 5 x 171 to increase Uckfield line by 50% as stated.

The other option would be to use the 170s on dedicated peak flows on the Uckfield line without mods or go the whole nine yards and mod them for complete inter operability.

Of course I am only speculating so could be something else altogether.