Govia 365 refurbishment

[jopsuk]

On a cold winter's day the hopper windows that won't always stay shut are not so welcome! Not mention that blatting down the ECML with all windows open at 100mph is a rather noisy experience

 

[Hadders]

On a cold winter's day the hopper windows that won't always stay shut are not so welcome! Not mention that blatting down the ECML with all windows open at 100mph is a rather noisy experience

It's noisy alright but that's part of the attraction in the summer

I agree that it's not so welcome in the winter though!

 

[jon0844]

And if you like the wind in your hair, it's not the window nearest you that needs to be opened!

 

[Skimble19]

What they ought to have done is have flip down seats in the area opposite the disable toilet as theres not much room between the seats and said toilet.

That said, it now instructs you to flush before and after use in order to save water, how it does that I be interested to know....

I was surprised there weren't any flip down seats actually.. Especially in the seating area on the other side of the vestibule as there's a fair few seats (and one of the few remaining tables!) been lost there!

 

[hassaanhc]

Are they anything like the ones on the 444s, 450s (and probably also on the 350s)?

Not Desiro ones. They are being fitted to 165s, 166s, 319s, 455s, 456s, and 458/5s

 

[bramling]

It is quite nice on a hot day to have all the windows open as you go down the ECML at 100mph. Wind in the hair moment. I do miss that on the sterile trains with air con.

I do agree that the modifications we are seeing to the 365's this time round are generally a backwards step and certainly 'cheapen' the loom and feel of an otherwise excellent train.

I suspect we're being softened up for the introduction of the 700's.

Agree with this.

The interior finishes are not too bad, I marginally prefer the colours to the FCC refresh, but much prefer the original interior the trains had when they first entered service.

The loss of table seats does not appear to have been well received. It's quite common to see bunfights at King's Cross as people make a bee-line for the tables, and disgruntled people board nearer to departure time and walk through the entire train to find all the table seats are taken. The reality is that these are generally the first seats to fill, therefore they should not have been reduced in number.

I have a suspicion that the change in layout may have been done to facilitate the extra room in the priority seats. If so this will have the opposite effect, as once the regulars notice these have the best legroom, guess which seats will become among the first to fill! So making them *less* available to those who need priority seats.

A further reduction in table seats as a result of the new toilet will further worsen this unsatisfactory situation. One wonders what the effect might be on a class 150, where the size of the toilet will take away a greater proportionate amount of seats relative to the length of the train.

Finally, the LED lighting on 365537 is awful. Gives a purple effect to the interior. Not nice at all. The lighting on the earlier refreshed units is highly preferable.

 

[samuelmorris]

Not Desiro ones. They are being fitted to 165s, 166s, 319s, 455s, 456s, and 458/5s

A little OT but I really dislike these compared to those used on, well almost any other stock. Mainly because the volume and pitch gives me a headache that most other door sounders not (the only other offenders being those fitted to Classes 376 and 378)

 

[Hadders]

I have a suspicion that the change in layout may have been done to facilitate the extra room in the priority seats. If so this will have the opposite effect, as once the regulars notice these have the best legroom, guess which seats will become among the first to fill! So making them *less* available to those who need priority seats.

I didn't know there were priority seats on 365's (and I use them most days

I certainly don't remember seeing any signed as such.

 

[bramling]

I didn't know there were priority seats on 365's (and I use them most days

I certainly don't remember seeing any signed as such.

Look closely at the airline seats nearest the doors on the refreshed units. I can't remember if it's both sets of doors or just one end, but there's definitely 2 rows of priority seats. I'm sure this is the reason for the change in seat layout, as there seems no other obvious reason to have made the change - a change which does not appear to have worked well.

 

[Skimble19]

I don't think that's the reason, if you look even closer you'll see the set in front has a ridiculously small amount of leg room... The rest of the seats in the coach however appear to be in the same place they were before based on how they're lined up with the windows (bar the obvious fact that the tables have gone and more seats face one direction than the other!!).

I think the poster who said about it being to try and soften the reaction to the 700s is probably more on the right lines to be entirely honest..

 

[Hadders]

There's no additional leg room from what I experience. The seats nearest the doors are (and always have been) closer to each other (there's no space between them like there is on all the other seats) so if these are priority seats they've actually got less space.

I'll take a look tomorrow if my journey is on a refurbished 365.

 

[bramling]

There's no additional leg room from what I experience. The seats nearest the doors are (and always have been) closer to each other (there's no space between them like there is on all the other seats) so if these are priority seats they've actually got less space.

I'll take a look tomorrow if my journey is on a refurbished 365.

Have a look at the inner end of a driving car and you'll see what I mean.

Whatever the true reason for the change, it has *not* worked well. Just last week I was on a (not particularly full) train departing King's Cross. All four table seats in the front car were taken with at least one person in each by 5 mins before departure time, with most other seats empty. A family then comes walking through and loudly moans that all the tables are taken, then promptly asks one to move, greeted with "turn up earlier and you can get what you want". Had the train not been made up of two refreshed units this situation would not have occurred.

Not the biggest issue in the world, but the previous layout appeared to satisfy all needs reasonably well - even then the table seats were marginally in the minority. The trains would definitely have been better left alone.

 

[chickenwings12]

Actually, I like the fact there's more airline style seats and less table seats. In a press release by fcc some time ago about the 700s they said that most people disliked the 2+2 seating in, for example, 317s. Mainly I just hate the awkwardness of having to avoid eye contact with someone opposite for an extended period of time as they're always so busy.

Purge me if you will but I think this refresh is actually really good!

 

[Hadders]

Actually, I like the fact there's more airline style seats and less table seats.

But there was never a shortage of airline seats before the refresh. In fact the vast majority of seats were airline seats.

I'd never want to have all table seats but I believe the balance pre-refresh was about right. There are people (eg families) who want to sit together and table seats are ideal for this.

 

[Aictos]

Actually, I like the fact there's more airline style seats and less table seats. In a press release by fcc some time ago about the 700s they said that most people disliked the 2+2 seating in, for example, 317s. Mainly I just hate the awkwardness of having to avoid eye contact with someone opposite for an extended period of time as they're always so busy.

Purge me if you will but I think this refresh is actually really good!

317s have never had 2+2 seating on the Great Northern, the 317/6s on the West Anglia do however have 2+2 seating as the interiors are similar to the WAGN era 365s.

My only gripe is the wrong group of 317s went to Ilford and Stratford, the GN ought to have kept the 317/6s and the rest of the 317s gone to West Anglia

That said, you can def sense the fact that 365537 has been refurbished, what they should have done is left a pair of seats on both the left and to the right of the DDA toilet by the doors to the carriage and have flip down seats along the side of said toilet.

 

[Skimble19]

Actually, I like the fact there's more airline style seats and less table seats. In a press release by fcc some time ago about the 700s they said that most people disliked the 2+2 seating in, for example, 317s. Mainly I just hate the awkwardness of having to avoid eye contact with someone opposite for an extended period of time as they're always so busy.

Purge me if you will but I think this refresh is actually really good!

Which would be fine if the table was in the middle of the carriage, but it isn't... Instead you end up with 25% of seats facing one direction and 75% of seats facing the other...

Ends up being like below with > and < being seats and | being a table.

>>>|<<<<<<<<<

 

[Aictos]

Which would be fine if the table was in the middle of the carriage, but it isn't... Instead you end up with 25% of seats facing one direction and 75% of seats facing the other...

Ends up being like below with > and < being seats and | being a table.

>>>|<<<<<<<<<

Indeed or has anyone noticed the table of 4 in the First Class compartments in 365537 now fold up to aid people getting in or out of these seats?

 

[jon0844]

The tables make/made all the seats in first class somewhat snug for anyone that likes a beer or two!

 

[SPADTrap]

My only gripe is the wrong group of 317s went to Ilford and Stratford, the GN ought to have kept the 317/6s and the rest of the 317s gone to West Anglia

You can have the 317/8s back

 

[Aictos]

You can have the 317/8s back

No thanks, the 317/6s are preferred!

 

[jon0844]

You can have the 317/8s back

Hate speech isn't allowed on this forum!

 

[David Goddard]

317/6s were on Great Northern when first refurbished from 317/2s - the refit was inspired by the 365 interior at the time, down to the same moquette being used so they would appear similar. In my view one of the best Mk3 derived EMU refits to have been done.

 

[jon0844]

At least one 317/6 on AGA has been given new grey seat coverings and also looks pretty smart given the age.

It's a shame they all didn't get this update, rather than the various el-cheapo refreshes that other classes got over the years.

 

[samuelmorris]

Spotted this at Liverpool Street yesterday, looks smart enough - hopefully they won't attach the new seat covers with velcro like they apparently have on the 321/4s....