Government advice discussion

[theironroad]

That's a good question as my mom is worried as she uses my local one to pay for her electricity and gas top ups as well as the odd bits and bobs

Could you do the top ups online for her?

 

[Tetchytyke]

You're in the IoM aren't you? It isn't the UK, they presumably come up with their own rules.

I am, and we're about 2-3 days behind the UK. Our schools only closed tonight and our pubs only closed last night. The island is completely closed to non-residents- something I can't believe the UK hasn't done.

Boris's martial law doesn't apply to us- yet. Give it a couple of days.

This whole thing has been an interesting insight into which lives matter and which lives don't (anyone poor or foreign).

 

[bussnapperwm]

Could you do the top ups online for her?

She has one of those key/card meters which can only be done at corner shops.

 

[AlistairCowell]

Here are the essential shops that will still be open:

• Supermarkets
• Pharmacies
• Vets
• Newsagents
• Pet shops
• Hardware stores
• Retail shops in hospitals
• Petrol stations
• Launderettes
• Undertakers
• Banks
• Post Offices

But retailers will still stay open for online orders.

 

[Andyh82]

I wonder how they define a hardware shop? Is B&Q Open? If it is, how about Homebase, The Range, Dunelm Mill etc

What about your typical Corner Shop, neither technically a newsagent or a supermarket.

How about WHSmith, it’s basically a newsagent.

 

[Ivor]

I worked solo today at a station (non Gateline) often attracts the teens/young adults to smoke weed, drink, congregate & I have nightmares at times getting shot of them.

Today they came out of the woodwork & majority don’t want to travel just hang out & cause aggro, backing me up a few commuters gave them hell re congregating (very few commuters around) & the ‘yobs’ see confrontation as a challenge!!!!

I know this will get worse & I feel the police won’t cope with the lack of man power. I for one hope we don’t see it but I’ll have no problem seeing troops out & about if & only if needed.

There is a section of society that will thrive on this awful scenario by causing trouble, stations at the best of times seems to draw undesirables.

Wishing everyone safety & good health

 

[3rd rail land]

I wonder how they define a hardware shop? Is B&Q Open? If it is, how about Homebase, The Range, Dunelm Mill etc

What about your typical Corner Shop, neither technically a newsagent or a supermarket.

How about WHSmith, it’s basically a newsagent.

Corner shops sell food products so I reckon they will be allowed to remain open.
As for WHSmith I reckon it will get away with remaining open as they sell a lot of the same goods as a newsagents. Plus some branches have a sub post office located within their premises and if the shop closes the sub post office would have to as well.

 

[nidave]

Austerity indirectly killed 45,000 people in two years (source: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-austerity-kill-120000-people) alone and nobody gave the tiniest little stuff.

I swear the world's gone mad.

The attitude you display is sad to see and frankly dangerous to others. You would be first in line if other people impacted you and put your life in danger. Show some compassion for others. Just once.

 

[Journeyman]

Will newsagents be open.
Probably not that important but I just thought about it because I was intending to go and pay my newspaper delivery bill before the end of the week. It’s not a large amount as my paper is pre paid with vouchers but the shop might appreciate it being paid at this difficult time.

A lot of newsagents sell groceries or contain post offices, so I'd imagine they'll stay open.

 

[Journeyman]

Until today WHSmith told its staff that it was 'positioning itself to the government as an essential service' because of its 'offering'. The leaked letter to staff is on twitter somewhere.

Give them a phone call as they may be able to take payment online or over the phone.

I'm glad I went to WH Smith and stocked up on reading matter today.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A lot of newsagents sell groceries or contain post offices, so I'd imagine they'll stay open.

I've not seen a traditional newsagent in a while - most of them are local shops that happen to sell papers but also food and stuff and so are grocery shops. Do they still exist?

WH Smuggs' reading room doesn't count as it's basically a voucher shop.

 

[Cowley]

The attitude you display is sad to see and frankly dangerous to others. You would be first in line if other people impacted you and put your life in danger. Show some compassion for others. Just once.

Yep.

Let’s nip that avenue in the bud and stick with what this thread is actually for - Government Advice.
Anything else that appears off topic will be removed from now on...
Thanks all.

 

[Journeyman]

I've not seen a traditional newsagent in a while - most of them are local shops that happen to sell papers but also food and stuff and so are grocery shops. Do they still exist?

Not really. Just about every shop I've seen recently that you'd call a newsagents sells milk and a few basic foodstuffs at the very least.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Here are the essential shops that will still be open:

• Supermarkets
• Pharmacies
• Vets
• Newsagents
• Pet shops
• Hardware stores
• Retail shops in hospitals
• Petrol stations
• Launderettes
• Undertakers
• Banks
• Post Offices

But retailers will still stay open for online orders.

Without wishing to appear frivolous, I'm disappointed off licences don't appear on that list. With the pubs shut and many people feeling stressed at what lies ahead, I'm sure many of us would welcome the chance to enjoy a drink.

 

[hexagon789]

Without wishing to appear frivolous, I'm disappointed off licences don't appear on that list. With the pubs shut and many people feeling stressed at what lies ahead, I'm sure many of us would welcome the chance to enjoy a drink.

Supermarkets?

But alcohol is hardly an essential tbh

 

[Tetchytyke]

But one that has near universal support from all those in the medical profession (who are best qualified to advise), and all those in Parliament, who we rely on to take these decisions on our behalf. So I’d say it’s probably right.

There doesn't seem to be an endgame. That's what worries me. Lockdowns can't go on for long. It just seems panic-stricken. There seems to be no consideration of the consequences of the actions being taken. Millions of people are being tipped out of work with barely a mention.

What happens next? They don't seem to have a clue. Last week the experts thought herd immunity would work.

 

[theironroad]

There doesn't seem to be an endgame. That's what worries me. Lockdowns can't go on for long. It just seems panic-stricken. There seems to be no consideration of the consequences of the actions being taken. Millions of people are being tipped out of work with barely a mention.

What happens next? They don't seem to have a clue. Last week the experts thought herd immunity would work.

You really don't seem to get it do you?

The consequences of no action being taken are thousands more , younger and older , will die. Not be out of a job, but die.

 

[theironroad]

Supermarkets?

But alcohol is hardly an essential tbh

Maybe not yet, but soon will be

 

[hexagon789]

Maybe not yet, but soon will be

Depends how you look at it I guess!

 

[JamesT]

There doesn't seem to be an endgame. That's what worries me. Lockdowns can't go on for long. It just seems panic-stricken. There seems to be no consideration of the consequences of the actions being taken. Millions of people are being tipped out of work with barely a mention.

What happens next? They don't seem to have a clue. Last week the experts thought herd immunity would work.

The current measures have a lifespan of 3 weeks, when they'll be reviewed. As the virus seems to have an incubation period of around 2 weeks, that should be sufficient to show whether it's worked and inform the next steps.

 

[JonathanH]

What happens next? They don't seem to have a clue. Last week the experts thought herd immunity would work

Herd immunity is still a plan but it can't be achieved overnight as no-one knows the risk profile for people adversely affected by the virus and who will end up in hospital.

There is a plan for the time being - protect the NHS.

Development of an antibody test would really help but until then the 'lockdown' is the only option.

 

[Wivenswold]

I'm an idealist leftie Europhile but I applaud the Government's change in approach today. Boris was slow off the mark and should have stopped listening to Cumming's bonkers "Herd immunity" theory especially as it would have shortened my life span by 30 years.

I feel for Americans though, Trump heard a catchy phrase on Fox last night and that's now the basis of his strategy, today. Sad to say but their death rate is about to sky rocket.

 

[Journeyman]

Without wishing to appear frivolous, I'm disappointed off licences don't appear on that list. With the pubs shut and many people feeling stressed at what lies ahead, I'm sure many of us would welcome the chance to enjoy a drink.

Surely booze is fairly easy to find, though? Ultimately I suppose it's not a good idea to encourage widespread drinking at the moment - it'll lead people to do dumb things, and ignore the guidelines on how we should behave.

I wonder if people having parties in their houses is still a problem?

 

[C J Snarzell]

I honestly think last night's measure to 'lockdown' much of the country is definately needed to protect the vulnerable from Coronavirus.

Unfortunately, the side effects on the social impact this will cause are catastrophic. I have a distant relative who is a recovering alcoholic who relies on regularly attending AA meetings to keep her safe & sober. She could potentially have a relapse if she does not have access to her support network and if this happens she too may become an indirect casualty of Covid19.

There is also many people in our communities who suffer from mental health & drugs and their social needs are paramount to ensure they survive. The restrictions in place have to at least make allowances for other types of vulnerabilities otherwise I think we could have wide reaching consequences in the long term.

The government & local councils should really tackle homelessness too as people on the streets are clearly not going to fall under the Prime Minister's measures to keep indoors and I think there needs to be greater emphasis to focus on them and find them sanctuary somewhere for at least the time being while events unfold across the country & the world.

CJ

 

[Mathew S]

There doesn't seem to be an endgame. That's what worries me. Lockdowns can't go on for long. It just seems panic-stricken. There seems to be no consideration of the consequences of the actions being taken. Millions of people are being tipped out of work with barely a mention.
What happens next? They don't seem to have a clue. Last week the experts thought herd immunity would work.

I completely agree about the lack of an end-game. To be honest, that's the thing that worries me the most about this whole situation; the deeper in we get, the harder it's going to be to find a way out. I don't agree about the economics; to be blunt, it's better to be alive, but unemployed, than dead.
On herd immunity, new data from Italy (mainly) came to light which fundamentally altered the modelling. The science changed, so the advice to the government changed, which is exactly how it's supposed to work.

You really don't seem to get it do you?
The consequences of no action being taken are thousands more , younger and older , will die. Not be out of a job, but die.

The lack of an end-game from this is a genuine problem, though. There's a real concern amongst the medics and scientists that, in a few months time, when these restrictions are simply no longer sustainable, we will be back where we started with the virus spreading unchecked. I agree that but for the 'lockdown' there would be many, many more deaths in the coming weeks. The risk is that, by having the lockdown, all we do is delay those deaths by a few months rather than preventing them. Maybe, just maybe, if our luck changes, a vaccine or a treatment will be developed which can be rolled out in time to prevent such a rebound, but hoping for that that is one hell of a gamble.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

As far as an endgame is concerned - my understanding is that "Flattening the curve" means slowing it's spread, rather than stopping it, while ultimately allowing the virus to run its course. We can't contain it or eradicate it now, and if we tried we'd be back at square one as soon as it was inadvertently reintroduced.

The more people who recover from the virus and are immune, the more slowly viruses spread (since a growing %age of the population are immune and cannot host/spread the virus anymore, hence after a while the virus will recede to the point that it isn't viable. This is called the "herd immunity" stage of a virus outbreak.

Herd immunity isn't a strategy, it's one of the few endgames in a virus outbreak. To end an outbreak we have to achieve either eradication, suppression or herd immunity.

• Eradication isn't possible at this point, the virus is too widespread globally.
• Suppression is (marginally) possible with extensive long term quarantine, probably far stricter than current measures. This is what China achieved in Wuhan by locking people in their homes for several months. The downside of this approach is that if the virus is reintroduced then it will spread as fast as it did before and a second outbreak could leave you back at square one. Might just work if you're holding out a few months for a vaccine?
• Herd Immunity means allowing the virus to run its course, so that a percentage of the population get the virus, recover and develop immunity. As immunity levels increase, the chain of transmission is disrupted and the virus goes into a decline. This is what happens with things like the flu (and the swine-flu from a few years ago). This can be managed by shielding the most vulnerable and using public health measures to slow down the outbreak so that the health service is not overwhelmed by everyone getting it at once.

 

[GB]

List of what is closed and what can remain open here...
https://assets.publishing.service.g.../230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf

Newsagents and garages on the list that can remain open.

Edit

Retail (closed)
Hair, beauty and nail salons, including piercing and tattoo parlours, Massage parlours, All retail with notable exceptions...
Exceptions
Supermarkets and other food shops, health shops, pharmacies including nondispensing pharmacies, petrol stations, bicycle shops, home and hardware shops, laundrettes and dry cleaners, bicycle shops, garages, car rentals, pet shops, corner shops, newsagents, post offices, and banks.

 

[krus_aragon]

Boris was slow off the mark and should have stopped listening to Cumming's bonkers "Herd immunity" theory especially as it would have shortened my life span by 30 years.

There's a thought. I'd not thought about what influence that particular advisor had on this area of policy over the past months...

 

[krus_aragon]

Unfortunately, the side effects on the social impact this will cause are catastrophic. I have a distant relative who is a recovering alcoholic who relies on regularly attending AA meetings to keep her safe & sober.

I have a relative who attends gyms and swimming pools four times a week to keep their arthritis in check. Or did attend...

 

[paddington]

We are currently renovating our new house, but still living in our old flat. The plan is(was) to finish in mid-April and then move in.

Everything that needed tradesmen was completed in Feburary, the remainder will be done by my wife and I. Though it seems shops like B&Q / Wickes are not closing, we bought all required supplies some time ago.

We travel from the old place to the new by a 30 minute car drive. Both properties are in London suburbs, so it isn't like people fleeing to the Scottish Highlands or the Welsh coast where they might overwhelm the local NHS.

This travel is not "essential" but I don't see how it puts anyone at extra risk as we do not come into contact with any other people. There may be a minimal risk if I need to fill up the car but we would use gloves to touch the petrol pump / PIN pad anyway.

So do people think this travel is still justifiable?

I don't have any sympathy for the walkers who drove to Snowdonia and didn't leave when they saw how many other cars were there, or the people who drove from Surrey and needed rescuing but equally I don't see the problem if you drive around near to your home, and go for a walk if you find somewhere sufficiently isolated.