GOT CAUGHT USING 11-15 OYSTER. HELP!!

[najaB]

Sorry to stick my oar in here but, I would argue, that if you've lost your university place on the mere threat of being convicted, I would say that's compelling reason not to prosecute, assuming that the offer is to be formally withdrawn, with that communique coming on official Uni stationery?

The process and stress you've been through, and the loss of your future career would be more of enough of a lesson learnt, surely?

And, from TfL's point of view, the OP should have appreciated that their actions could have a serious impact on their life. As the old cliché goes: "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." It's not like the railway isn't plastered with posters and publicity telling people that getting caught evading fares is a criminal offence.

 

[r4miii]

Did you show them this thread?

No do i need to?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jun 2024 ==

Well, to be frank, you seem to have shot yourself in the foot. There does not appear to have been any reason to have told them anything until you were convicted but you seem to have convinced them that you are not appropriately trustworthy and therefore provided them with the ammunition. In the circumstances I doubt there really is much that can be done to change their minds.

Erm no, you need to declare them PRE conviction or cautioning, just so they are aware and can guide you with the next steps. Regardless anyone with offers for the course would have had to do a Enhanced DBS check (depending on what type of offer they have) 5 weeks ago. So theyd find out anyway…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jun 2024 ==

So when you look up your application on UCAS it says that you have been refused?

They never even updated my initial offer on ucas

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jun 2024 ==

TfL will basically not settle out of court; they only give warnings or prosecute in the magistrates'.

Hopefully the university didn't find this thread because back at the start the OP admits to paying money for a fraudulent reference to obtain the place. This has been a long one and it hasn't really gone anywhere since the first reply.

I did not state it was a fraudulent reference i don’t appreciate such accusations, it was taken legitimately, and the university is fully aware of my situation as it affected how i was applying.

Im not sure why you think it was done fraudulently as if it was up to me. I registered at a tuition centre which also is a centre for exams, did the exams i needed to over a period of weeks to obtain predicted grades and get a reference from them (and i got one from school later on due to being a victim of scam). It was all done legitimately, this is a known way if your a gap year student.

My university is aware im using such threads to find advice on thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jun 2024 ==

Sorry to stick my oar in here but, I would argue, that if you've lost your university place on the mere threat of being convicted, I would say that's compelling reason not to prosecute, assuming that the offer is to be formally withdrawn, with that communique coming on official Uni stationery?

The process and stress you've been through, and the loss of your future career would be more of enough of a lesson learnt, surely? I fully understand freedom pass misuse is serious, but does the above evidence put it into the realms of against the public interest, settle with an administration fee? After all, they've kinda got OP over barrel with regards to what they charge... and TfL will get all of it.

It was 11-15 pass not sure if it makes a difference but ive read freedom pass misuse is much worse.

I was told that if something will affect your university offer you should mention this in the first letter tfl sends out which i did. I know others who also did and misused 11-15 oyster but they did it on purpose to pay lower fare and got away with it by a warning. Unfortunately i havent

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jun 2024 ==

And, from TfL's point of view, the OP should have appreciated that their actions could have a serious impact on their life. As the old cliché goes: "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." It's not like the railway isn't plastered with posters and publicity telling people that getting caught evading fares is a criminal offence.

True, but honestly i dont think anyone’s actually acknowledged them. I did after the incident. I even mentioned this to others on their threads on others websites who also misused attempting to help as Much as i can having been further in this situation, and just mentioning it to people i know who havent misused and no ones actually realised it

 

[najaB]

It was 11-15 pass not sure if it makes a difference but ive read freedom pass misuse is much worse.

It doesn't make much difference, no. They're both photo card products which means that it's just as clear that they're intended to be used by the person whose photograph is on the card. This means that accidental misuse is next to impossible.

I know others who also did and misused 11-15 oyster but they did it on purpose to pay lower fare and got away with it by a warning. Unfortunately i havent

Did you pay the full adult fare for the journey(s) that you made?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

They never even updated my initial offer on ucas

I suspect that we’re talking at cross-purposes here, but if UCAS still says ‘we will give you a place if you meet these conditions’ (or even ‘we will give you a place’ as you seem to have the exam results you need already) then the university has not rejected you. If I have got that right, then wait for the court to come back to you: then you will have to tell the university about your conviction and the punishment, and the panel will decide if you can join the course.

I’m less sure about this next bit, but if what you mean is that the university haven’t made you an offer but haven’t rejected you then I think you still have some chance - although it seems to be a popular course so that may just be them being sloppy with their admin.

But put simply, if they don’t want to consider you, I would expect UCAS to show that the university had rejected you.

 

[r4miii]

I suspect that we’re talking at cross-purposes here, but if UCAS still says ‘we will give you a place if you meet these conditions’ (or even ‘we will give you a place’ as you seem to have the exam results you need already) then the university has not rejected you. If I have got that right, then wait for the court to come back to you: then you will have to tell the university about your conviction and the punishment, and the panel will decide if you can join the course.

I’m less sure about this next bit, but if what you mean is that the university haven’t made you an offer but haven’t rejected you then I think you still have some chance - although it seems to be a popular course so that may just be them being sloppy with their admin.

But put simply, if they don’t want to consider you, I would expect UCAS to show that the university had rejected you.

no they did intially make me an offer, but they havent updated it to this day on ucas

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2024 ==

It doesn't make much difference, no. They're both photo card products which means that it's just as clear that they're intended to be used by the person whose photograph is on the card. This means that accidental misuse is next to impossible.

Did you pay the full adult fare for the journey(s) that you made?

are you sure? because freedom pass means everything is free so technically if you actually did it then the misuse is greater?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

no they did intially make me an offer, but they havent updated it to this day on ucas

In that case, I think you still have an offer, and what you want to do, as I said earlier, is

wait for the court to come back to you: then you will have to tell the university about your conviction and the punishment, and the panel will decide if you can join the course.

It will be important to get back to the university promptly as soon as you know the position (how do I know this? Because my wife used to work in university admissions for health courses (although in the North West so not at your institution) and clerk the criminal convictions panel: I know how busy she got as it got closer to the start of the academic year - and how tight places could get at the same time) and of course you will need to pay the fine - so yet another reaons to keep an eye out for letters from the court.

 

[SuspectUsual]

If I have got that right, then wait for the court to come back to you: then you will have to tell the university about your conviction and the punishment, and the panel will decide if you can join the course

I think the key here is that this is exactly what you should tell them - the conviction (ie guilty and details of the specific law) and the punishment. I wouldn't volunteer anything about the details of the offence

 

[najaB]

are you sure? because freedom pass means everything is free so technically if you actually did it then the misuse is greater?

In either case you're using a pass that is clearly intended to be used by someone else - by virtue of it having their name/photo on it! This makes both more serious than using a regular Oyster card that's registered to someone else.

 

[AlterEgo]

are you sure? because freedom pass means everything is free so technically if you actually did it then the misuse is greater?

Well, on one, you pay a discount, the other, it is free - if that is what you're getting at. But that is not the point here - the point is the flagrant dishonesty involved in doing either of these things, by abusing products which are subsidised heavily by taxpayers.

You still don't seem to grasp that the dishonesty is the point. It's like getting caught stealing from the till at work and saying "well I did leave some money in the till, so it's not as bad as it could be!"

 

[r4miii]

Well, on one, you pay a discount, the other, it is free - if that is what you're getting at. But that is not the point here - the point is the flagrant dishonesty involved in doing either of these things, by abusing products which are subsidised heavily by taxpayers.

You still don't seem to grasp that the dishonesty is the point. It's like getting caught stealing from the till at work and saying "well I did leave some money in the till, so it's not as bad as it could be!"

i dont really get your point of now accusing me of not realizing the dishonesty, because my initial query was about someone else not me. ive already accepted what i did was wrong etc

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2024 ==

In either case you're using a pass that is clearly intended to be used by someone else - by virtue of it having their name/photo on it! This makes both more serious than using a regular Oyster card that's registered to someone else.

i see thanks for clearing it up. not sure then how tfl determine

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2024 ==

I think the key here is that this is exactly what you should tell them - the conviction (ie guilty and details of the specific law) and the punishment. I wouldn't volunteer anything about the details of the offence

what if they ask?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2024 ==

i spoke to 2 people on the court number on the letter i got sent, i needed the email to send in extra attachments. they both told me they can assure me that there is no criminal conviction. they said we can assure you and put it in writing and that they had worked there for a number of years so had seen cases daily. any idea why they may have said this...

 

[najaB]

i spoke to 2 people on the court number on the letter i got sent, i needed the email to send in extra attachments. they both told me they can assure me that there is no criminal conviction. they said we can assure you and put it in writing and that they had worked there for a number of years so had seen cases daily

I have to assume that they meant that you hadn't been convicted yet, rather than that there wasn't a case making its way through the system.

 

[r4miii]

I have to assume that they meant that you hadn't been convicted yet, rather than that there wasn't a case making its way through the system.

i asked them about the aftermath, i made it very clear im pleading guilty and said if i plead guilty then...

 

[najaB]

In that case I have to assume that there was confusion about the terms. If you plead guilty to a Byelaw 19 offence then you will have a criminal conviction. However, since it's a non-recordable offence it won't show up on a Police National Computer (PNC) search. This means that it won't show up on a basic DBS check, but will show up on standard or enhanced checks that are typical for people working in education and/or healthcare.

 

[r4miii]

the plea asks about my employment and what my monthly income after tax, but i have not even started doing my first shift, so i have not even received my first pay check. so what do i put in for this monthly income?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

the plea asks about my employment and what my monthly income after tax, but i have not even started doing my first shift, so i have not even received my first pay check. so what do i put in for this monthly income?

I'm assuming that this is an 'MC100' form (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...MQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0UcUa6NUbvZFli3DLNGo8V) If you aren't currently working, then say that by filling in the 'if you are NOT employed' boxes.

And there's a box in section 4 for additional information, so as you know you will be working soon mention that in there. Say
- who you will be working for
- when you start
- how many hours you think you will do each week
- how much you expect to be paid each hour. If you don't know how much the tax will be, give the amount before tax and make it clear this is the pay BEFORE TAX.

My guess is that the court will work out the fine on the basis that you have no income, but it's really important that you avoid getting into more trouble so it's best to give them too much information and let them decide what they need to pay attention to.

 

[r4miii]

I'm assuming that this is an 'MC100' form (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...MQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0UcUa6NUbvZFli3DLNGo8V) If you aren't currently working, then say that by filling in the 'if you are NOT employed' boxes.

And there's a box in section 4 for additional information, so as you know you will be working soon mention that in there. Say
- who you will be working for
- when you start
- how many hours you think you will do each week
- how much you expect to be paid each hour. If you don't know how much the tax will be, give the amount before tax and make it clear this is the pay BEFORE TAX.

My guess is that the court will work out the fine on the basis that you have no income, but it's really important that you avoid getting into more trouble so it's best to give them too much information and let them decide what they need to pay attention to.

hi sorry for the late message, it wasnt this it was the one on the gov.uk so the options were slightly different.

i have sent it in on the 28th, any idea how long these things roughly take?

 

[najaB]

hi sorry for the late message, it wasnt this it was the one on the gov.uk so the options were slightly different.

i have sent it in on the 28th, any idea how long these things roughly take?

From what I've seen, they tend to batch cases together so it's likely to be up to a month.

 

[r4miii]

From what I've seen, they tend to batch cases together so it's likely to be up to a month.

is that maximum a month or min?

 

[najaB]

is that maximum a month or min?

There's no way to say for sure. Could be more, could be less. It's just that they tend to take a bunch of cases to the magistrates at the same time.

 

[dumbgirl]

A few months ago, I had to go to court because i was caught using my siblings discounted oyster card. However despite being convicted my enhanced dbs is still clear so I didnt tell my university about my conviction despite studying a health care course at uni. Universities use dbs checks to check for convictions and since my dbs is clear there was no need in disclosing it

 

[r4miii]

There's no way to say for sure. Could be more, could be less. It's just that they tend to take a bunch of cases to the magistrates at the same time.

Oh ok thanks though.
This is really starting to ruin my home life now, between me and my family. Im not sure if mentioning this to the SJP and asking them to possible be able to give an accurate time frame or something would help?

 

[najaB]

This is really starting to ruin my home life now, between me and my family.

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like you guys need to sit down and talk everything through.

Im not sure if mentioning this to the SJP and asking them to possible be able to give an accurate time frame or something would help?

Respectfully, the state of your intra-familial relationship is of zero significance or importance to TfL. That's something that you need to sort out for yourself.

 

[JBuchananGB]

This saga started over 4 months ago when you committed a crime. The judicial process is grinding onwards to its conclusion which is as summarised in post #2 of 351. You are discovering some of the other consequences which arise from committing crime. You have received patient and helpful advice here in the forum. But when you committed the crime you started a process in which you are not the person in control. You just have to follow the system, and you will emerge at the other end with the criminal record, which may have ongoing ramifications.

 

[r4miii]

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like you guys need to sit down and talk everything through.

Respectfully, the state of your intra-familial relationship is of zero significance or importance to TfL. That's something that you need to sort out for yourself.

i see, your right. just need to make my family come to terms with it ; they dont really want to accept what the sjp means for me and that its for minor offences etc. but thank you

 

[simonw]

i see, your right. just need to make my family come to terms with it ; they dont really want to accept what the sjp means for me and that its for minor offences etc. but thank you

I think you need to recalibrate your views if you think that what you did is a series of minor offences, especially given how your preferred university seems to view these offences.

 

[r4miii]

I think you need to recalibrate your views if you think that what you did is a series of minor offences, especially given how your preferred university seems to view these offences.

The court themselves told me sjpn is for minor offences so just going off that

 

[najaB]

I think you need to recalibrate your views if you think that what you did is a series of minor offences, especially given how your preferred university seems to view these offences.

To be fair, compared to arson, murder or jaywalking it really is a minor offence, even if it's having a major impact on the OP's life.

 

[simonw]

The court themselves told me sjpn is for minor offences so just going off that

You seem to be overlooking the impact on your desired education. But carry on.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The court themselves told me sjpn is for minor offences so just going off that

Well - the offence is minor in terms of the possible penalties. But since it can be seen as an offence showing a propensity to dishonesty, then obviously it's seen as more serious than other "minor" offences by employers in professions where ethical standards are paramount.

 

[Cowley]

The thread seems to be drifting around now. I think we’ll lock it for the time being until there’s further developments.

Thanks everyone