Goodbye YP, Hello 16-25!

[Max]

Seems a fairly minor change, but an interesting change in marketing all the same:

http://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/

From this Sunday 18 May, we're changing the name of Young Persons Railcard to '16-25 Railcard'. But don't worry, if you've already got a Young Persons Railcard it will still be completely valid - and will in fact be even better!

More than just a new name

16-25 Railcard holders can now save 1/3 on ALL Standard Class Advance fares (for travel on or after 18 May 2008 ).

What’s more, you can also get your discount on many First Class Advance fares (CrossCountry, East Midlands Trains, First Great Western, National Express East Coast and Virgin Trains services).

Advance fares are great value for many longer distance journeys but you must book in advance (subject to availability).

I didn't realise they were bringing in YP discounts for first class advance fares, seems like a good idea!

 

[Mojo]

This seems very odd given, according to the homepage you can still apply if you're 26+ in full-time education!

It also says it's only valid for First Class advance on "CrossCountry, East Midlands Trains, First Great Western, National Express East Coast and Virgin Trains services." I thought the restrictions of the new Advance tickets were meant to be standardised across all TOCs

 

[me123]

I noticed that when I was checking thetrainline today. I preferred the old name, but presumably the 25yos and mature students didn't like the "Young-Person's" branding?


Anyway, the FC deals will be great! I now have one less excuse to travel FC to London on Virgin when I finally decide to go to the Capital.

 

[Max]

It also says it's only valid for First Class advance on "CrossCountry, East Midlands Trains, First Great Western, National Express East Coast and Virgin Trains services." I thought the restrictions of the new Advance tickets were meant to be standardised across all TOCs

To be honest, I'm a bit dubious about this too, because when trying to book NXEC first advance tickets it still says 'no discounts available' in the restrictions :?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Anyway, the FC deals will be great! I now have one less excuse to travel FC to London on Virgin when I finally decide to go to the Capital.

But we have always accepted YP railcard discounts, here at Virgin Trains, so there will be no change here. :???:

 

[will1337]

I noticed that when I was checking thetrainline today. I preferred the old name, but presumably the 25yos and mature students didn't like the "Young-Person's" branding?

Surely 16-25 railcard is less fitting name for them and I thought those TOCs listed already did YP advance fares?

 

[Mintona]

Should be "Student Railcards" if it's the name they're worried about.

 

[yorkie]

Surely 16-25 railcard is less fitting name for them and I thought those TOCs listed already did YP advance fares?

Agreed, but only Virgin / XC did before.

 

[Nym]

Should be "Student Railcards" if it's the name they're worried about.

Yeah, but 25yo non students can get it, maybe just have 2 railcards!

Anyway, whens the healthy middle aged not living in the southwest railcard coming out?

 

[John @ home]

To be honest, I'm a bit dubious about this too, because when trying to book NXEC first advance tickets it still says 'no discounts available' in the restrictions :?

This only applies for travel dates from 18 May 2008.

I have successfully booked Y-P discounted first class NXEC Advance tickets via the NXEC web site for each of the first two weeks after 18 May. I thought that less than £22 for first class single London - Leeds was very good value indeed.

John

 

[me123]

But we have always accepted YP railcard discounts, here at Virgin Trains, so there will be no change here. :???:

I didn't think you got a Y-P discount on the First Class fares at all?

 

[Mintona]

You can, but only on some Virgin Advance fares.

 

[me123]

I didn't know that; well, I've got even less of an excuse now

Anyway, just two questions. When buying a ticket, can i astill ask for a "Young-Person's ticket" or is it a "16-25's ticket"? And will it still be Y-P on the tickets themselves, or some other little code now?

 

[djw1981]

Just show your railcard...
"A Return to Edinburgh with Railcard" is all I have ever said..... - the staff tend to be able to tell which type you have.

And as a 26yo, I am very sad that I no longer have a card proving that I am young person (well actually I do...since my current card does not expire until 2009 but you get the idea)

 

[me123]

See, I've always asked for a "Young-Person's Return" as that's what I've been advised to say: I used to say the "with a railcard" bit but about the fourth time I used it, the conductor told me that most people say a "Young Person's Return". :?

Anyway, "with a railcard" it shall be!

 

[Mojo]

I just show the railcard and ask for a ticket not mentioning anything.

 

[djw1981]

Or just use the nice shiny ATM's......far more polite than some ticket office staff members.

 

[yorkie]

djw1981 - yes, quite right! Someone tried to get 2 YP tickets for a long distance journey in a couple of weeks time. They were sold only 1 ticket on the basis that the ticket clerk "had so see both railcards". Sadly ticket machines do not sell rovers, AP tickets, ferry tickets, etc.... I think it's about time that was changed if some staff are not going to be co-operative and treat the customer as a customer.

Sadly, there's too many Basil Fawlty's out there

 

[djw1981]

Many TOCs say that the T&C do require the railcard to be present if buying from staff though.....I think this a mis-interpretation of condition B14 and D22 of http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

14.If you buy a ticket using a Railcard, you must have with you when you travel, the
ticket, that Railcard and any photocard that may be required

22.You must show and, if asked to do so by the staff of a Train Company or its agent,
hand over for inspection a valid ticket and any relevant Railcard, photocard or
other form of personal identification in accordance with Condition 15.

IMO 22 is clearly talking about on a train, but some staff take 22 to apply at a ticket office as well. Also many forget the underlined bit - there is nothing to stop a parent buying a railcard ticket and posting it to their offspring who has possession of the railcard to use.

 

[Edvid]

I didn't think you got a Y-P discount on the First Class fares at all?

You can, but only on some Virgin Advance fares.

FCC and Southern sell Y-P discounted 1st Cheap Day Returns for some journeys.

 

[me123]

It's a tough thing to interpret djw. 14 does say that you nought the ticket using the railcard, implying to me that the railcard had to be "used" at time of purchase.

Of course, implication is not statement. It's something that needs to be cleared up by National Rail. To be fair, most railcard holders purchase their own tickets; if they can't get to a station there is thetrainline, where one can obviously buy a railcard ticket without being in possession of the railcard at the time.

My friend (non-enthusiast) holds a valid railcard and only uses it when purchasing the ticket and has never shown nor been asked to show the railcard whilst on the train. He claims you only need it when purchasing the ticket. This is the opposite to what is said above, but if it is what staff are going, well...

 

[djw1981]

I have never got away with just the ticket on teh train. Otherwise why not just get him to show the rail card and buy 3 tickets and then give them to 2 non-railcard friends and just say they showed it at purchase.

If you had genuinely forgotten it and explained to NXEC at Waverley / Newcastle before travel, they would sell you a new ticket, and advise you to send the old one for refund (cost £5) to minimise the cost. Often cheaper just to buy a new RC - my sister had 3 at one point.....

 

[Tom B]

I have on occasion got the tickets out the wallet to give to the gripper, who has punched them and moved on without even looking at my YPR! Or, when the old one expired, I bought a new one a few weeks early, but put it behind the old one. I forgot about the fact that the old one was still showing, and made several journeys before someone pointed it out!

 

[87015]

I have never got away with just the ticket on teh train.

Come down here! I reckon its probably only a dozen times I've been asked to show the railcard in three years of pretty intensive use, certainly a rare event and always raises a 'desperate fool' thought as its so rare...

 

[djw1981]

So what apart from a sense of law-abiding, stops someone just buying YP tickets without a railcard?

I guess it could be argued that the YP cards should be obligatory (like the pensioners concessionary passes) - similar to the young-scot card scheme and all young people given one?

 

[87015]

So what apart from a sense of law-abiding, stops someone just buying YP tickets without a railcard?

Nothing. But at least they are buying a ticket of some description - can't blame them myself - get caught with a £20 fine once every two weeks and you are still quids in compared to buying a ticket every day...

 

[me123]

I never got a Young Scot And I didn't bother appyling; the discounts weren't actually of any use to me.

The obligatory idea works in France (well, at least on the Eurostar), where, IIRC, 12-25yos get a "Jeune" ticket. There's no need to buy a card or anything. That should be the case over here for 16-25 year olds IMO, and of course there should be a card for "older" students and people who can't convince staff of their true age.

 

[djw1981]

I was meaning an actual card though - proof of age, railcard discount all in one?

 

[me123]

Would work as long as everyone got one through school or through the government, in a similar way to the NI card (ie, you get one automatically and don't have to apply).