Goodbye VASC

[Royal351]

As Victoria Signalling gets brought down to TBROC time to say goodbye as the signallers seem to be saying their farewells from the Signalling Center at Victoria

 

[Bald Rick]

Only for part of it!

 

[ComUtoR]

That Great Beast TBROC devours another panel(s).

 

[zwk500]

Only for part of it!

How many panels are left to go?

 

[Southern Dvr]

Far as I know with VASC it’s Panel 1 along with panels 2a & 2b that are going. Panels controlling Streatham, Streatham Common & Sutton are already gone.

 

[ComUtoR]

Panel 5 is going too I believe.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I know knowing which singal box controls their local line is of great importance to the general public, so I'll say it's surprsingly sad to see my "local" box being closed. "VC" and "VS" will be no more. Having these massive ROCs, I must say, is surprisingly soulless. I met a former BR manager the other day who thought the same.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I know knowing which singal box controls their local line is of great importance to the general public, so I'll say it's surprsingly sad to see my "local" box being closed. "VC" and "VS" will be no more. Having these massive ROCs, I must say, is surprisingly soulless. I met a former BR manager the other day who thought the same.

And when there are signalling failures, a much wider area is affected

 

[High Dyke]

I know knowing which singal box controls their local line is of great importance to the general public, so I'll say it's surprsingly sad to see my "local" box being closed. "VC" and "VS" will be no more. Having these massive ROCs, I must say, is surprisingly soulless. I met a former BR manager the other day who thought the same.

Even Andrew Haines (Network Rail) was against large signalling control centres, when he first joined the company. One comment being, "how could I justify, to a passenger at King's Cross, their train to Stevenage has been cancelled due to a lightning strike in York. "

 

[Steve Harris]

And when there are signalling failures, a much wider area is affected

And they call it "progress" !

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Yes, farewell to "VS" and "VC". Another great signalling centre confined to history. As an aside, I remember the old "CA" automatic signals in the Anerley area before Three Bridges ASC took over the area. "CA", "L", "VS" and "VC" was a familiar sight when I moved to London in the early 1980s

 

[DNCharingX]

On the broader topic, as an example, I think it's very silly to have TBROC responsible for areas that are way outside Three Bridges and the surrounding area.

Though, before today I had no idea of VASC, so what do I know! In hindsight "VS" should've been a clue

 

[bramling]

Yes, farewell to "VS" and "VC". Another great signalling centre confined to history. As an aside, I remember the old "CA" automatic signals in the Anerley area before Three Bridges ASC took over the area. "CA", "L", "VS" and "VC" was a familiar sight when I moved to London in the early 1980s

It isn’t all going at this visit, only certain panels.

Can anyone confirm if this week marks the end of all the “VC” signals? Certainly “VS” will live on for a little while yet.

 

[Tempest Malice]

It isn’t all going at this visit, only certain panels.

Can anyone confirm if this week marks the end of all the “VC” signals? Certainly “VS” will live on for a little while yet.

All that was left of "VC" now goes over to "TVC" (with possibly very slightly different panel boundaries within the area, and posdibly clapham west lonfon line area might not be getting re-plated with new letters, but is deffinitely part of the re-control). The Eastern part of the station area (Panel 5) from "VS" joins panel 6 (Blackfriars) in having moved to Three Bridges, but the rest of it remains (pamels 7-10 controlling Stewarts Lane through to beyond Swanley) in Victoria ASC at Clapham for now.

 

[ComUtoR]

The Eastern part of the station area (Panel 5) from "VS" joins panel 6 (Blackfriars) in having moved to Three Bridges,

Panel 5 will have a new panel at TBROC

 

[zwk500]

The NR page has some good graphics showing the outline changes https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...ondon-victoria-track-and-signalling-upgrades/

 

[Tim M]

These two photos scanned from the GEC-General Signal VARS brochure showing the two large panels located at the Control Centre at Clapham Junction. These are a tribute to my many colleagues on the VARS teams from BR Southern House in Croydon and the joint Site Depot in Battersea (including Clough’s for civils), the GEC-GS project teams at Borehamwood (signalling, TDM and Train Describers), Ingatestone (location prewire) and Trafford Park (relays, signals, Reed FDM and track circuits etc.), not forgetting Henry Williams in Darlington (Domino Panels and desks, combined size being the largest such installation in the U.K.).

I didn’t walk all of VARS on cable and location surveys, but with over 170 route miles the job was an excellent example of teamwork and coordination, and made many friendships as a result.

The photos were taken before all areas were commissioned, some of those you see are from ‘the team!’.

Forty years on, another team carries on the good work.

 

[Sunset route]

The VC code we still survive as the Crystal Palace area ie Panel 3 which is remaining and everything from panel 6 to panel 10 also survives apart from the old Blackfriars Area which I believe was either panel 7 or panel 8? With the rest being transferred to panel 6 at the time? So quiet a lot of VS remains as well.

 

[Tim M]

Commissioning VARS was invariably carried out in traffic, with the Stageworks office at Southern House in Croydon marking up both existing and new drawings with the changes required to make that happen. Not all commissioning went smoothly, Balham (being replaced as I write) coming to mind.

I was in the Victoria Area Signalling Centre on the Saturday day shift, what my duties were I can’t remember, might have been something to do with the Non Vital Reed. The train service seemed to come to a stop over a thirty minute period, taking a while to recover. Today, it takes several days with a full possession of all lines to complete the job, a very different world.

 

[Deepgreen]

As Victoria Signalling gets brought down to TBROC time to say goodbye as the signallers seem to be saying their farewells from the Signalling Center at Victoria

Hope they get their trains in a better order than their words!

 

[Sonik]

Today, it takes several days with a full possession of all lines to complete the job, a very different world.

Perhaps you don't know the answer, but is that down to less competence (and to be clear I mean that institutionally not individually), or is it simply more resources efficient to do changeover jobs in bigger chunks?

 

[zwk500]

Perhaps you don't know the answer, but is that down to less competence (and to be clear I mean that institutionally not individually), or is it simply more resources efficient to do changeover jobs in bigger chunks?

A very big part of it is changing attitudes to risk management.

 

[Signal Head]

Perhaps you don't know the answer, but is that down to less competence (and to be clear I mean that institutionally not individually), or is it simply more resources efficient to do changeover jobs in bigger chunks?

Greatly increased signalling testing (paperwork) requirements introduced following Clapham accident will play a part. There's also a reluctance to do anything with trains running. I've been on commissionings (BR days) where trains were kept running using 'Ticket Working' while the signalling was being changed over. There's BTF video available on YouTube showing this being done for the Rugby PSB commissioning in the 60s. Virtually unthinkable now.

 

[Class 466]

On the broader topic, as an example, I think it's very silly to have TBROC responsible for areas that are way outside Three Bridges and the surrounding area.

Though, before today I had no idea of VASC, so what do I know! In hindsight "VS" should've been a clue

Weird to think the TBROC controls the Bromley North Branch and all of LBG etc.

 

[Tim M]

Another brief anecdote about VASC. When the ‘box was first opened the signalmen (as they were known at the time) declined the offer to use Travellers Fare for catering, instead they negotiated their own deals including one direct with Tate & Lyle for sugar. Anyone care to confirm if that was the case.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Dec 2022 ==

London Bridge was the first big (maybe even the first ever) application of Train Operated Route Release, being incorporated in Westpac. VARS followed with the GEC Geographical System being modified to incorporate TORR.

VASC was however the last big GEC application of Sub-miniature relay sets as the interface between the TDM system and the panel controls and indications, thereafter TDM systems incorporated panel processors and were mounted in the backs of panels. The first of these was at Cambridge with the ‘box relay room being rather empty as a result.

As for the application of the GEC Reed products: the Vital and Non-Vital FDM were a success, the less said about Jointless Track Circuits the better.

Maybe one more innovation on VARS. this was the first big application of three wire polar lineside circuits, mainly point control and detection functions. This was introduced as a result of an accident at Leeds shortly before VARS design started.

 

[DaveHarries]

On the broader topic, as an example, I think it's very silly to have TBROC responsible for areas that are way outside Three Bridges and the surrounding area.

Agreed. I think that giving York ROC responsibility for Kings Cross is rather silly and likewise, as of late 2023, giving Exeter responsibility for parts of Cornwall.

Dave

 

[Tester]

Agreed. I think that giving York ROC responsibility for Kings Cross is rather silly and likewise, as of late 2023, giving Exeter responsibility for parts of Cornwall.

Dave

Then you probably wouldn't be impressed that the entire New Zealand railway network is controlled from a single signalling centre in Wellington

 

[Watershed]

Then you probably wouldn't be impressed that the entire New Zealand railway network is controlled from a single signalling centre in Wellington

How many miles is that though?

 

[Tester]

How many miles is that though?

Mr Wikipedia says 2718.8 miles. It's the geographical spread rather than the density which is unusual.

When I was working on the Auckland suburban network I found it a little strange at first that if I used a signal post phone the signaller was in Wellington, but I got used to it!