Goodbye First GBRf?

[GB]

Rumour has it that First Group are in a serious financial situation and are looking to sell off GBRf to make a quick buck!

 

[anthony263]

Well i am not to surprised about first group being in trouble. If they are running their rail operations like they are with their bus operations then its too surprising. I know First's south wales bus operations have retracted and withdrawn routes as well as closing or downgrading some depots because they cant make enough money and yet other companies such as veolia etc have come along and are making a tidy profit.

 

[gordonthemoron]

could veolia be doing OK due to cherry picking routes, like they have done in Nottingham?

 

[MCR247]

Veolia are ok in Nottingham at the moment, its YourBus copying routes and stuff
:-x

 

[starrymarkb]

Yourbus are not exactly independent either - they have backing from Rotola

 

[anthony263]

in west wales they seem to be doing very well. It the Pontypridd area where they are going badly wrong. Veolia's bus operations in that area have gone so badly that Edwards coaches have decided to go back into running bus services after a 25 year gap, even Mr Clayton jones who some people may know had a bad reputation has decided to start running buses again after selling his shamrock business to Veolia.
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Yourbus are not exactly independent either - they have backing from Rotola

Isn't Yourbus are run by the former owners of Dunnline who decided to go back into after they sold out to Veolia

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Rumour has it that First Group are in a serious financial situation . . .

Can you elaborate a bit please?
I've just had a look at their filed accounts and see impressive increases in gross income, net income, shareholder's equity, assets and receiveable income. The downside is a lot of debt to fund those assets, and nobody wants debts at the moment, but I can't see where there's a "serious financial situation".

 

[deltic]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/fgp/7542261/FirstGroup-skids-on-US-warning.html

Apart from US school bus operations it would appear First are doing fine

 

[GB]

As I say, "rumour has it..."

 

[MCR247]

Isn't Yourbus are run by the former owners of Dunnline who decided to go back into after they sold out to Veolia

Yes, thats right

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Apart from US school bus operations it would appear First are doing fine

I agree.
The current high fuel costs AND the poor forecast for the US school bus operation do make trading difficult at the moment. The likely need to re-finance that debt may be requiring the introduction of some new capital, but investors are likely to be supportive as the Company is thought likely to continue producing steady growth.
Nowt wrong with selling off a division, though, just to re-balance that debt against assets, but nothing "serious".

 

[Greenback]

I agree that there's nothing to suggest that First Group is in trouble. Of course, all across the rail division there have been cuts in the cost base, as Lockhead himself boasted about last year. As such I wouldn't rule out First GBRf being sold if a good bid was received, but I don;t think it should be seen as evidence of a company going to the wall.

In respect of First Cymru, they have pulled out of certain routes recently, but this is something they do from time to time. According to a contact in the company, they don't tender for subsidised routes that they don;t consider worthwhile, allow Veolia to run them, make a mess of it, then pick the route up again at a more realistic level afterwards. IIRC, a similar thing happened a few years ago, just before the recession began, six months later they were aggressively competing again!

 

[MCR247]

I read somewhere that they have approached NX with another takeover bid :?

 

[starrymarkb]

in west wales they seem to be doing very well. It the Pontypridd area where they are going badly wrong. Veolia's bus operations in that area have gone so badly that Edwards coaches have decided to go back into running bus services after a 25 year gap, even Mr Clayton jones who some people may know had a bad reputation has decided to start running buses again after selling his shamrock business to Veolia.
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Isn't Yourbus are run by the former owners of Dunnline who decided to go back into after they sold out to Veolia

That is the official line - however Briefly the timetable image/PDF for their 36IIRC (the QMC one) was headed Rotola PLC on the Yourbus website... it was taken down after a day or two...

 

[SouthernCDiv]

As you say there is a rumour, then no smoke without fire? plus also heard SNCF are interested, now that would be interesting GBRf(SNCF) v DBS !

 

[tbtc]

Wouldn't be a massive surprise if they got rid of a non core part of their operations, regardless of the financial climate, but certain;y not heard anything

 

[GB]

As you say there is a rumour, then no smoke without fire? plus also heard SNCF are interested, now that would be interesting GBRf(SNCF) v DBS !

Now that would be nice! Though as long as we dont get taken over by either DBS or FL I'd be slightly more happy.

 

[route:oxford]

The trouble with making comments about a listed company on-line is that the FSA sometimes take a significant interest in the source of "rumour has it" - especially if it turns out to be true.

Rarely is on-line posting truly anonymous, so unless you are absolutely confident that the information is correct and prepared to plead your case following a 6am FSA raid best to take care about what you post.

 

[GB]

OK, fair enough. Perhaps this thread should be locked and removed untill I (or someone) can find somthing concrete?

 

[Tom B]

I've closed this thread until some other source turns up.