Good enough for northern but not TPE!!

[DunfordBridge]

Personally, I think the class 185 is the mean machine of UK DMUs. I should have mentioned that in the interview then I might have got somewhere.

Geared for the hills, they have more pulling power. That is torque by the way. Would not want anyone to think that I would want to pull upto a platform wearing an inverted baseball cap.

I do not think a Pacer is likely to set anyones pulses racing. My heart always used to sink when I saw one approaching. I may not be viewing TP Express too fondly at the moment but at least they have banished Pacers from Scarborough station.

I travelled on a Pacer from Sheffield on the Hope Valley line last year. The engine sound to my ears was most discordant. A far inferior experience to the similar journey years earlier on a class 101 heritage unit.

 

[TheVicLine]

Surely driving a modern efficient 185 on a day to day basis is far more desirable than driving a 142 to all apart from to the 'enthusiasts' out there. Isn't it progress that the 185 has a computerised train management system that aides safety and helps the driver identify train failure quickly?

If I'm on an 8 hour shift I want my cab to be be warm, spacious and comfortable not nostalgic and hard work.

 

[SPADTrap]

Surely driving a modern efficient 185 on a day to day basis is far more desirable than driving a 142 to all apart from to the 'enthusiasts' out there. Isn't it progress that the 185 has a computerised train management system that aides safety and helps the driver identify train failure quickly?

If I'm on an 8 hour shift I want my cab to be be warm, spacious and comfortable not nostalgic and hard work.

No. The railway clearly isn't in your blood

I agree, but that said I am looking forward to the 317s for feeling a bit more nostalgic and then having the 379 when you're wanting an easier day!

 

[455driver]

Surely driving a modern efficient 185 on a day to day basis is far more desirable than driving a 142 to all apart from to the 'enthusiasts' out there. Isn't it progress that the 185 has a computerised train management system that aides safety and helps the driver identify train failure quickly?

If I'm on an 8 hour shift I want my cab to be be warm, spacious and comfortable not nostalgic and hard work.

But that modern computer could say that it doesnt want to play and stop the job, a basic train like a 142 can normally be battered into life and get you home no matter what.

If I am on an 8 hour shift I want to finish in 8 hours, not stuck in the middle of nowhere because a computer has blown a fuse.

Okay the 142 is more likely to have an issue in the first place but that issue can normally be fixed or worked around.

 

[Lockwood]

I saw the title and felt compelled to read. I then felt compelled to query this:

156s are worlds better than 142s. There is no southern equivalent to a Pacer.

 

[SPADTrap]

I saw the title and felt compelled to read. I then felt compelled to query this:

Ouch!

 

[455driver]

But thats Western region example, not Southern region.

Okay its in the South but they meant the former Southern region where I play at driving trains!

 

[TheVicLine]

If the 185s TMS ever breaks down (never had it happen to me) then it's easy enough to isolate it and fault find the same as you would in a 142. I've never heard of anyone breaking down and being stranded in the middle of nowhere due to computer problems on a 185, still I guess it could happen the same as 101 other things that could go wrong on both trains.

The car I drive is also drive a modern computerised machine and have no concerns about the computer breaking down in it every time I drive it. I had a Ford Capri in 1985 and it was pretty cool at the time but I wouldn't want to drive it all day every day now because it doesn't even compare to the comfort and reliability offered by todays cars, and in todays climate as drivers we are all constantly being made aware of passenger comfort and driver fatigue so why compromise?

 

[Lockwood]

But thats Western region example, not Southern region.

Okay its in the South but they meant the former Southern region where I play at driving trains!

Ah.
I take "Southern" as being "This side of Oxford"

 

[Beveridges]

142's are so bad that there is absolutely no temptation whatsoever to go Mainline driving with my TOC for me. It's one of the reasons I stay on the maintenance depot. I couldn't even imagine driving 142s on all those diagrams where you've got 6+ hours in the seat of a Pacer.

Maybe they will all be gone in 2020 ? But that's a long time away yet.

 

[Bluebri]

142's are so bad that there is absolutely no temptation whatsoever to go Mainline driving with my TOC for me. It's one of the reasons I stay on the maintenance depot. I couldn't even imagine driving 142s on all those diagrams where you've got 6+ hours in the seat of a Pacer.

Maybe they will all be gone in 2020 ? But that's a long time away yet.

What about 156's? Just curious as to what they are like in comparison as they would be the tool of the trade if I end up in Allerton.

 

[Beveridges]

What about 156's? Just curious as to what they are like in comparison as they would be the tool of the trade if I end up in Allerton.

Like I said in an earlier post, 156's are fairly decent units.

Surely driving a modern efficient 185 on a day to day basis is far more desirable than driving a 142 to all apart from to the 'enthusiasts' out there

The only enthusiasts who would rather drive a 142 all day instead of a 185 are the die-hard 142 fans. 185's are more comfortable, don't stink, have got air-con, quieter, cleaner, more private, faster and as a bonus the engines sound better.

 

[Bert and Ernie]

Wow this thread really has developed into an argument about 150's and 142's somehow!

 

[notaspotter]

I drove for Northern Rail for 8 years before moving to TPE last year, my traction card was 142, 144, 150/1/2, 153, 155, 156, 158. None of these compare in comparison to a 185, in 12 months I have never had a 185 fail on me, 142's have a awful failure rate, along with 150. 185 is like a Mercedes, a 142 a Lada

 

[Beveridges]

Wow this thread really has developed into an argument about 150's and 142's somehow!

Actually its 142s vs 185s.

You asked why TPE set higher standards than Northern. As I said earlier they have got better trains so they can pick and choose. There are a few pros and cons to working for either company but the main one is the superior traction with trans pennine.

 

[JAMBO]

It ain't because they have better traction or may seem a better TOC to work for. For some reason they set the bar higher than any other TOC for most jobs. Probably a first group thing. TPE make qualified drivers sit a bunch of tests again? Even though you have sat and passed them years earlier to get in the seat in the first place. Even after years of experience. If your a mainline driver with a clean record then your competent to drive for them. No other TOC does this for drivers including the major flagship operators like east coast and virgin. So I wouldn't say they can be pick and choose who they want at all.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

Its ridiculous to suggest that because they have better traction or routes then they can take their pick. As someone who has driven both pacers and more modern trains, I can absolutely say that pacers and sprinters are far better to drive than the modern stuff which thinks you need to be told that the ****ter is full or that a light is out in the saloon. When DAS is rolled out across the TPE fleet then the units will be even less desirable to drive.

I have no idea why TPE make qualified drivers do assessments again, frankly its ludicrous and far from meaning they pick the best drivers, it actually limits their potential pool as it puts many good drivers off applying, and many good drivers fail the tests.

 

[JAMBO]

what does it prove to ask someone who has already passed these tests once before to resit them! So if you fail does that mean your not competent to drive for your current TOC/FOC, that's the impression given, wonder where you then stand with your current operator been informed you have failed the tests!

 

[driver9000]

what does it prove to ask someone who has already passed these tests once before to resit them! So if you fail does that mean your not competent to drive for your current TOC/FOC, that's the impression given, wonder where you then stand with your current operator been informed you have failed the tests!

The tests (SCAAT and a written test) that forms part of the TPE recruitment for qualified drivers is purely an internal test for the company. They have no bearing on your job or ability to drive trains nor does it affect competence at your current company. Should you fail them then nothing happens apart from you don't get the job, your employer isn't told as there is no need for them to be told.

 

[Beveridges]

I don't know how you can perfer pacers they are absolute bobbins.

Whats DSA ?

 

[BravoGolfMike]

DAS is Driver Advisory System. Been rolled out across some of the FGW and Scotrail fleet (I think freightliner has it as well.) Tells the driver when to shut off, coast and brake in order to minimise fuel consumption. A lot of drivers ignore it as it isn't compulsory - yet - but TPE are on about fitting it (so I hear.) I gather people don't like it although I haven't used it yet.

As for pacers, they may be old and rattly but they are simple little things, usually reliable and no fancy stuff to distract you (only the whistly windows lol)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And there is tons of legroom!

 

[Beveridges]

DAS is Driver Advisory System. Been rolled out across some of the FGW and Scotrail fleet (I think freightliner has it as well.) Tells the driver when to shut off, coast and brake in order to minimise fuel consumption. A lot of drivers ignore it as it isn't compulsory - yet - but TPE are on about fitting it (so I hear.) I gather people don't like it although I haven't used it yet.

That DAS sounds horrendous to be honest, what is there to do in the job to use your brain if theres a robot telling you what to do, not a lot, sounds very boring

 

[JAMBO]

DAS is just a way of saving money in fuel costs. Drive the train in a professional manner and we wouldnt need it. This is the amazing piece of kit that informs the driver of a coaly struggling up a gradient to notch back power as your running early! Complete waste of money,millions to be correct, been ongoing for years and it still has faults.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

That DAS sounds horrendous to be honest, what is there to do in the job to use your brain if theres a robot telling you what to do, not a lot, sounds very boring

Agreed. It also has it's limitations. From what others have said on other forums, it has been telling freight drivers to coast uphill for a start. It also seems that signallers let out a train because they expect it to clear a section in a certain time, however DAS is telling the driver to coast because there is a red X miles away, so the trains aren't clearing the sections as quick as they should be, causing delays to other services. I can see why TOCs like it but I can see why those of us who run the service don't!

 

[Bluebri]

Just to put another spin on this thread perhaps the reason it appears more people are successful with northern is more likely that they run the largest franchise in the UK and have a lot more trains, routes and drivers to operate them. If TPE seem choosy, it's more likely that they simply have less vacancies to fill and most likely the same people are applying for both companies as well as qualified drivers trying to move for whatever reason. Just a thought.

 

[Beveridges]

Drivers leave Northern for TPE and it's rarely if ever the other way round. There is more to it than 'number of vacancies that need filling', it could be the better traction, class 1 work, the diagrams, or could even be something else.

Maybe 'notaspotter' can give us the answer as he is one of many who has made that move.

 

[Suraggu]

Ive never been good enough for TPE in Customer facing roles and likewise for Northern but I am good enough for East Coast... Its never made any sense to me.

 

[notaspotter]

Drivers leave Northern for TPE and it's rarely if ever the other way round. There is more to it than 'number of vacancies that need filling', it could be the better traction, class 1 work, the diagrams, or could even be something else.

Maybe 'notaspotter' can give us the answer as he is one of many who has made that move.

I made the move as I knew I would be stopping less in a week, than a day at Northern, some Northern Dockets had 80+ stops a day, compared to maybe 20 at TPE. Then there is the traction, it really is hitting its sell by date, and Northern don't seem to like spending any money, maybe a lick of paint here and there. I much prefer driving 185's to anything I drove over at Northern. I don't miss the fixed rest day pattern so many Northern drivers seem to like as I get just as much time off and long weekends as I did over there. I don't know a single driver move from TPE to Northern as to me it's a backwards step, if anyone leaves TPE its for XC or Virgin

 

[TheVicLine]

When I applied for TPE as a trainee driver there were over 5000 applicants so why wouldn't they be choosey and go for the best. They have also got to get the numbers down somehow, it's all just part of getting the numbers to a realistic amount for the selection process.

 

[Clip]

Ive never been good enough for TPE in Customer facing roles and likewise for Northern but I am good enough for East Coast... Its never made any sense to me.

It makes perfect sense. If you were interviewed by the same person for all 3 TOCs then yes it wouldnt make sense but maybe in both Northern and TPE they had better candidates who maybe had more of what they were looking for or did better than you in the interview.

Maybe at East Coast they liked what they saw in you throughout and you were the better applicant there.

To say it doesnt make sense in all of this thread shows a real lack of undertsanding of what you are being assessed and interviewed on and that WILL differ between any TOC and also any employer within any given industry.


Although the lack of understanding that is maybe, just maybe, why you failed a few times with one TOC or another and improved yoru skills the next time.