Gold Cards on HS1

[Failed Unit]

Are Gold Card discounts valid on HS1?

If I look up the price for Brookmans Park - Canterbury I can find a fare of £28 for "off peak return" which claims to be valid by operator shown. I guess as the trains shown on the journey planner are HS1 trains, then it is OK.

When you scroll along I can find an £18.50 "off peak return with railcard", but when you try and book it, it states it is not valid on any trains shown.

Travelling out on 21st Dec at about midday and back on 27th Dec at about 10am. The £28 fare is the best I am been shown, none with the gold card discount applied.

 

[barrykas]

Are Gold Card discounts valid on HS1?

For some bizarre reason best known to Southeastern, ordinary Network Railcard discounts are valid on HS1, but NOT Gold Cards!

Whether that will change with the January fares round remains to be seen, however.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[Failed Unit]

For some bizarre reason best known to Southeastern, ordinary Network Railcard discounts are valid on HS1, but NOT Gold Cards!

Whether that will change with the January fares round remains to be seen, however.

Cheers,

Barry

That is a pity, I guess I can buy a network railcard for £1 with my gold card. My next question is can I still buy a classic line return with a gold card and pay a suppliment or will that work out the same price as buying the ticket outright? (In plain english will the £4.40 supplement still be on offer after December?)

 

[jon0844]

I got a discount marked GOLDC; see here...

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=380070&postcount=33

HS1 and ticketing seems a right mess. I hope common sense prevails and will eventually be treated like the rest of SET.

 

[Failed Unit]

I got a discount marked GOLDC; see here...

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=380070&postcount=33

HS1 and ticketing seems a right mess. I hope common sense prevails and will eventually be treated like the rest of SET.

Thanks, I did the same thing myself back in October, I just didn't think that it would still be a valid thing to do now the preview is over. Thinking about it and looking at the other threads. Brookmans Park - Canterbury using high-speed is the shortest route. Will buy the gold card version then excess up if needed before I board at St Pancras.

I know they may sort this out come Jan, but not a good start. I guess you could argue however that gold cards are not valid on IC services between London and Peterborough for example (not sure about London - Reading), but then none of the IC operators allow gold cards on any of their services. Are you allowed to use Gold Cards on London - Ipswich services which are heading to Norwich as a comparison point?

 

[John @ home]

I guess you could argue however that gold cards are not valid on IC services between London and Peterborough for example (not sure about London - Reading)

Network Railcards and Gold Cards can both be used for a London - Reading journey.

none of the IC operators allow gold cards on any of their services.

That's not right. EC allow London - Stevenage. Virgin allow London - Milton Keynes. NXEA allow London - Colchester.

Are you allowed to use Gold Cards on London - Ipswich services which are heading to Norwich as a comparison point?

No. Ipswich is outside the Network area. See the map here.

 

[Failed Unit]

Network Railcards and Gold Cards can both be used for a London - Reading journey.That's not right. EC allow London - Stevenage. Virgin allow London - Milton Keynes. NXEA allow London - Colchester.No. Ipswich is outside the Network area. See the map here.

John thanks, of course Peterborough and Ipswich were kept outside NSE when I think about it. Just seems even more confusing to me at least why I can't use it on a Brookmans Park - Canterbury via HS1. But I guess the non-HS + supplement is still cheaper than just paying for HS without the gold card discount.

 

[jon0844]

I was told that you could use a Gold Card onboard (and did) and have no reason to believe this changed today. The preview service shouldn't be any different to the normal service - or it's a preview of what? What you're gong to lose?!

If I'd bought a ticket from Hatfield to Ashford, I'd get the discount but presumed I'd also need to pay the supplement even if it's the shortest route. If it turns out that you don't need the supplement, I'd be surprised - but happy. That could just about balance out the cost of getting a ticket that requires me to go via London to Victoria, London Bridge or wherever.

 

[Failed Unit]

Journey 1: Brookmans Park to Canterbury West
Outward journey22 Dec 2009 Return journey27 Dec 2009
No service selected No service selected

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Passengers
2 Adults
Railcards
1 Network Gold Card

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Off Peak Return£37.00

valid via: Via Any Permitted Route

Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train operator shown. Return travel any day within 1 month.


OR you can have.

Journey 1: Brookmans Park to Canterbury West
Outward journey22 Dec 2009 Return journey27 Dec 2009
No service selected No service selected

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Passengers
2 Adults
Railcards
1 Network Gold Card

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Off Peak Return£37.00

valid via: NOT VALID ON HS1

Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train operator shown. Return travel any day within 1 month.

terms and conditions


Total: £37.00

Go figure, I would assume that ticket was is valid by HS1 - however this is the railway industry. As you say I will buy option 1 fully prepared to be excessed!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here is full fare version

Outward journey22 Dec 2009 Return journey27 Dec 2009
Depart:
Brookmans Park dep. 10:13Change at:
Highbury And Islington arr. 10:40London Underground
London St Pancras dep. 11:12Ashford International arr. 11:50dep. 12:03
Arrive:
Canterbury West, 12:21

Changes: 3 Duration: 2h 8m
Depart:
Canterbury West dep. 10:25Change at:
London St Pancras arr. 11:21Walk
London Kings Cross dep. 12:11
Arrive:
Brookmans Park, 12:41

Changes: 1 Duration: 2h 16m


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Passengers
2 Adults
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Off Peak Return£56.00

valid via: Via Any Permitted Route

Valid on off-peak services by the route and Train operator shown. Return travel any day within 1 month.

Which seems to concur with what is posted about about Gold Cards are not permitted on HS1, but as myself and Jon have both found, if you pay the suppliment you get a gold card discount on it so they can't say gold cards are banned. It seems to me that you can't use a gold card to get a discount on the AP route, hock:

 

[jon0844]

Is the track gold plated or something? It's just another bit of track - albeit a modern one that's nice and straight and has a nice fence to protect it. It also runs nice trains, except they venture onto older tracks later on (how DARE they!).

SET really does think they've got something only fit for royalty or city bankers earning slightly less than expected bonuses!

 

[starrymarkb]

With the Supplements? Those were set by the DfT. You'll find a lot of the European HSR routes have supplements (I know Germany used to have a basic fare valid on stoppers, with progressive supplements for Schnellzug, Intercity, Eurocity and ICE. Not sure if they still persist but I'm pretty sure the ICE is a premium fare service)

 

[Failed Unit]

With the Supplements? Those were set by the DfT. You'll find a lot of the European HSR routes have supplements (I know Germany used to have a basic fare valid on stoppers, with progressive supplements for Schnellzug, Intercity, Eurocity and ICE. Not sure if they still persist but I'm pretty sure the ICE is a premium fare service)

I guess you could also argue you pay a premium on the ECML & WCML for travel on the IC services over the former NSE services. However to me the difference between an IC service between London and Peterborough and a class 317 is a lot greater than the difference between a 375 and 395!. You get catering for example on the IC services whereas the HS1 services are just glorified commutor trains. You can also get cheaper fares to Edinburgh from London than you can from London - Folkstone.

I don't object to paying a supplement, but I feel are going to score a few own goals as they have reduced the classic service and by banning gold cards on the HS1 you are in effect paying 2x supplements.

 

[jon0844]

I doubt they can charge the premiums forever. No doubt they'll announce it at some point as some fantastic price cut!

 

[yorkie]

I guess you could also argue you pay a premium on the ECML & WCML for travel on the IC services over the former NSE services.

Not really. Virgin introduced tickets that are cheaper than the London Midland ones between Milton Keynes and Euston! There is no premium for using EC over FCC between Stevenage and King's Cross.

Yes, there are FCC only fares between Peterborough and King's Cross but off peak the premium is very small, only £3 for the CDR (£1.50 each way), and that's LESS than the premium charged by Southern for the Any Permitted Brighton-London ticket compared to the FCC only! So, yes, there is a saving for FCC only, but there is a bigger saving south of the Thames than north of it, despite the mileage being greater and the vastly superior IC services north of the Thames.

 

[Dai.]

I'm confused on the HS1 upgrades,

How does it work?

How much does it cost?

Can you buy it over NR website?



I've read through all your posts and now I'm even more confused D:

 

[yorkie]

I'm confused on the HS1 upgrades,

How does it work?

An upgrade appears to be for season ticket holders to use the service, or where an excess is not available for some reason.

How much does it cost?

A lot. See http://southeasternrailway.co.uk/index.php/cms/pages/view/325

Can you buy it over NR website?

No, you cannot buy upgrades online. The NR website doesn't sell any tickets anyway; it will redirect you elsewhere if you attempt to buy.

I've read through all your posts and now I'm even more confused D:

Do you have a Gold Card? If not, you may be better off ignoring this topic and look at HS1 commuters topic instead.

The whole thing is extremely confusing though. But so typical of the UK rail industry. Does this complex fare structure encourage rail travel? I think not.

 

[Edvid]

Virgin introduced tickets that are cheaper than the London Midland ones between Milton Keynes and Euston!

Tickets for that flow are quite the smörgåsbord - most are VT-only and Any Permitted, the Off Peak Day Travelcard is LM-only and Any Permitted, and the Off Peak Day Return is all three!

Incidentally, the LM/VT-only CDRs are now identically priced.

 

[jon0844]

By making it confusing, I guess most people will just end up buying a full price ticket and not want to run the risk of being hassled or penalised.

I don't know if they can issue a penalty fare on the train though? If it's just an excess then I suppose you could just wait and let them sort it out while you're travelling - you'll be no worse off than doing it beforehand. But, I'd want to know that this was the case and not that they'll force you to buy an entirely new ticket - they didn't for me, but it was the preview service and she admitted it was confusing.

To then penalise me when I'd done everything in good faith (bearing in mind the ticket office at Hatfield didn't know about HS1 and at St Pancras they didn't know about the use of a ticket extension) would have been unfair - but not unknown for the railway!

If enough people start doing this on the train, then SET may seek to simplify things.

 

[philjo]

I just tried using SE's own online booking facility (uses the matrix interface like east coast).
I entered Potters Bar-Ramsgate for saturday 19 Dec with Gold card specified as the railcard. No gold card fares shown, only full fare.
If I change the railcard to "Network card", the discounted fares are now available for selection for that journey.

However, if you try a different journey - e.g. Ramsgate to London, you do get the gold card discounts shown, but these are all route "plus high speed"

 

[gwr2006]

I guess you could also argue you pay a premium on the ECML & WCML for travel on the IC services over the former NSE services. However to me the difference between an IC service between London and Peterborough and a class 317 is a lot greater than the difference between a 375 and 395!. You get catering for example on the IC services whereas the HS1 services are just glorified commutor trains. You can also get cheaper fares to Edinburgh from London than you can from London - Folkstone.

I don't object to paying a supplement, but I feel are going to score a few own goals as they have reduced the classic service and by banning gold cards on the HS1 you are in effect paying 2x supplements.

These are fine examples where there are two TOCs providing different types of service, EC and FCC (ECML) and VT and LM (WCML) and an element of competition between them with single or multi TOC fares.

A better example with South Eastern HS1 might be First Great Western where you pay the same price to travel on either a high speed service or a former NSE stopping service. The difference from Didcot is 40 minutes on high speed with buffet or 1 hour 25 minutes on Cl165/166 with nothing! No doubt you can guess what most people choose.

 

[Failed Unit]

Well it doesn't give us the answer to if it is valid or not, but I made the journey buying the ticket from the Brookmans Park ticket office using the Gold Card. The person selling me it didn't see a problem. Niether did either of the gaurds on the train.