Gold Card £5 first class upgrades

[BestWestern]

Hello all,

Been meaning to post this for a while, after reading one of Mr Barry Doe's lastest staff bashing efforts a few weeks back - the guy has some valid points at times but surely he has the intelligence to understand that poor staff training is the fault of the TOC, not the staff themselves? He genuinely appears to think at times that a lot of railway staff who make mistakes just can't be bothered to do it properly - as if doing it wrongly somehow requires less effort? Or does he just fail to appreciate the way some of his writing comes across I wonder?

Anyhow, these £5 upgrades for Gold Card holders - I'm curious about how many staff here know about them, or how to issue them, or ever do so? I expect Barry would be interested to know this too if he ever joins us on here? Where does one find this secretive supplement in ones electronical ticketybox, and what are the conditions of its issue? All the colleagues I have spoken to appear to do the usual, slightly unofficial thing of excessing STD season holders in first using the relevant standard single price as the starting point. None so far has known anything about it supposedly being a fiver if you're a Gold Card holder, and presumably most of the holders don't know either.

I'm perplexed; is there a bit of a scandal going on here? Hopefully those of you who are considerably more informed than most can shed some light!

 

[Be3G]

I haven't read the article to which you refer, but a few experiences to get you started:

• A ticket office clerk at a station in (if I recall correctly) Kent some years ago had heard of the supplement, but couldn't remember all of the details such as the price. He without hesitation looked it up in the manual, however, and proceeded to issue the ticket.
• A guard on a South West Trains train was going to sell us the SWT weekend first upgrade for £5 and when we asked for the gold card supplement replied that it was the same price anyway, though when I explained that the latter was valid all day (rather than just for one journey) he said “quite right” and proceeded to issue our requested upgrade.
• Another guard elsewhere on SWT scrutinised a supplement we'd been sold at Liverpool Street before asking where we'd bought it, so we told him. He then explained that it'd been issued differently to the way SWT do it but was happy enough with our explanation.

Overall, in my experience, awareness of the existence of the supplement isn't an issue, but there does seem to be some confusion/lack of knowledge about its details and how it's supposed to be issued. No doubt that's compounded by the various complexities about when it's valid, e.g. there's the rule that it can't be used on a journey covered by the season ticket Mon–Fri, but can be used at weekends, or during the week if a separate standard class ticket is bought too.

 

[revenueadvice]

Are these available on all TOCs? Do they have to be purchased in advance?

I've never been told about them and I'm an RPI! I've never heard my colleagues talk about them either.

 

[clagmonster]

Are these available on all TOCs?

Only those operating within the Network area, and excluding XC, EC, EMT, and VT.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46557.aspx#Gold_Card_First_Supplement

 

[bb21]

Are these available on all TOCs? Do they have to be purchased in advance?

I've never been told about them and I'm an RPI! I've never heard my colleagues talk about them either.

If you have access to The Manual, the relevant section is under "Railcards & Concessionary Travel" then "Annual Gold Card".

 

[Haywain]

A lot of Gold Card holders don't understand it either, and expect to be able to buy it for the journey covered by their season ticket.

In general, staff can't find the supplement because it isn't being bought at the same time as the ticket, and (at least in the TIS I use) it's only available as a supplement to a discounted ticket - that is, the ticket sale has to be set up to find the supplement.

 

[revenueadvice]

I googled it and found the explanation on national rail. I've tried to work out how I would issue it on my avantex machine... No success.

 

[philjo]

Is it possible to obtain the 1st Gold Card supplement online anywhere when purchased alongside the relevant travel ticket?
I'm going to Malvern next week - intending to use a std class gold card discounted ticket plus 1st supplement from Paddington to Worcester & a 1st single Worcester to Great Malvern. If I can't obtain the 1st supplement online, is it best to buy it with the travel ticket at the station, or just pay for the supplement on the train?

 

[34D]

Is it possible to obtain the 1st Gold Card supplement online anywhere when purchased alongside the relevant travel ticket?
I'm going to Malvern next week - intending to use a std class gold card discounted ticket plus 1st supplement from Paddington to Worcester & a 1st single Worcester to Great Malvern. If I can't obtain the 1st supplement online, is it best to buy it with the travel ticket at the station, or just pay for the supplement on the train?

Would FGW's weekend first be any cheaper (for the whole journey, I mean)?

 

[philjo]

I am travelling out on a Friday & returning on the following Monday so weekend 1st would not be available.

 

[CyrusWuff]

How to issue the Gold Card 1st Supplements depends on what TIS is being used. For Avantix Mobile, it's through the Supplements screen; for most of the PC-based ones you can use the Supplement screen on Journey Planner (formerly RJIS) and transfer it to the TIS; and for FasTIS it's through the "Extras" panel on the journey details screen, though that doesn't always let you issue it for the full journey.

 

[revenueadvice]

Ah yes, found it. Cheers guys.

 

[island]

A lot of Gold Card holders don't understand it either, and expect to be able to buy it for the journey covered by their season ticket.

Which they can, if it's a weekend...

 

[Haywain]

Which they can, if it's a weekend...

True, but I was talking about weekdays, which I accept I didn't make clear.

 

[postye]

Can somebody clarify exactly what the benefit of the supplement is, as I've heard a couple of different views and the guy in the ticket office on Friday wasn't exactly sure. To his credit he did volunteer to find out, but with only 10 minutes to departure I couldn't wait as it was the last train valid before the peak restriction.

1- valid for the single journey when the ticket is bought
2 - valid for the duration of the return ticket purchashed
3 - Valid for a whole day,

If 3 is correct how does it work, as the couple of times I have had these supplements, they show a specific route (i.e. BoundaryZ4 - Cambridge - valid only with ticket XXXXX)
Thanks

 

[CyrusWuff]

From "The Manual":

Gold Card First Supplements

Gold Card First Supplements are available to Annual Gold Card holders and up to 3 accompanying adults and 4 children for whom a discounted fare has been paid. Gold Card First Supplements are priced at £5.00 adult & £2.50 child.

On weekdays Gold Card First Supplements cannot be used for any journey over the route covered by a Standard Class Season Ticket unless a separate standard discounted ticket for the journey has been purchased. This does not apply at Weekends or on Public Holidays. First Class Annual Gold Card holders are not required to purchase separate Gold Card First Supplement tickets for themselves where the journey being made is covered by the route validity of their Gold Card season. Accompanying adults and children must be issued with both a Standard Class adult or Child Flat Fare ticket as appropriate, and a Gold Card First Supplement.

Gold Card First Supplements are available with all Train Companies participating in the Gold Card scheme except CrossCountry, East Coast, East Midlands Trains, Heathrow Express and Virgin Trains.

Gold Card First Supplements should normally be purchased before the start of the journey, but where the ticket office is closed, they may be purchased on train as an excess fare endorsed "Gold Card First Supplement".

Gold Card First Supplements can be used in conjunction with a valid discounted ticket for a single or return journey on the date shown on the ticket. If the return journey is made on another day a further Gold Card First Supplement ticket must be purchased for each member of the party.

Gold Card First Supplements are NOT available:

• On trains departing before 10:00 (Mondays to Fridays except public holidays).
• Between 16:00 and 19:00 inclusive Mondays to Fridays (except public holidays) for journeys departing from any London terminal station, or intermediate station between London and Clapham Junction inclusive.

• First Class Annual Gold Card/Travelcard holders need only purchase separate Gold Card First Supplements for accompanying adults and children where the journey being made is covered by the route validity of their Annual Gold Card/Travelcard season. Accompanying adults and children must be issued with Gold Card First Supplements in addition to an adult Standard Class or child flat fare ticket as appropriate.
• On Saturdays, Sundays and Public Holidays, Annual Gold Card/Travelcard holders may purchase Gold Card First Supplements for themselves for travel wholly on a journey covered by the route or zones on their Annual Gold Card/Travelcard without having to buy a further discounted ticket.

In the entry in The Manual, the above four points are in a single list, whereas they should be separate.

 

[island]

Is it possible to obtain the 1st Gold Card supplement online anywhere when purchased alongside the relevant travel ticket?
I'm going to Malvern next week - intending to use a std class gold card discounted ticket plus 1st supplement from Paddington to Worcester & a 1st single Worcester to Great Malvern. If I can't obtain the 1st supplement online, is it best to buy it with the travel ticket at the station, or just pay for the supplement on the train?

You cannot purchase the 1st Gold Card supplement online, nor can you purchase it on the train unless you join at a station without an open booking office.

 

[Tibbs]

You cannot purchase the 1st Gold Card supplement online, nor can you purchase it on the train unless you join at a station without an open booking office.

I bought one today and the lady at the booking office told me that she couldn't issue me one there, but that I could buy one on the train.

The guard was happy to sell me one, even though I joined at a manned station.

Incidentally, I've only ever been able to buy them on the train. The off peak during the week ones I've bought at a station.

 

[TonyR]

Can't buy them on the train in FCC-land because they removed them from the portable ticket machines a few years ago and you'll be lucky to buy one at a station because they mostly don't have a clue how to issue one. Again it used to be easy but they hid it from view in the menus about the same time they removed it from the portable machines.

 

[philjo]

I tried to obtain one from my local station ticket office (FCC) when using the Cotswold line last year but the booking clerk was unable to get the machine to issue the gold card supplement for the ticket type I wanted (SDS) - she could issue them in conjunction with CDR or SVR tickets but I was only going one way so the SDS was cheaper - she coud not get the machine to isseu them for single tickets. I was told to buy the supplement on the train - I was using it on the HST from Worcester to Paddington & had no problem though it was a bank holiday so they were also selling weekend 1st upgrades to other passengers.


Incidentally I used one with a CDR on a Saturday to Winchester last year. Aa it was at the weekend I could use it with my season ticket/gold card from my home station. The FCC RPI who checked the tickets on the train knew of their existence but hadn't seen one of those tickets before so was interested in it for future reference .

 

[Be3G]

Hmm, the quote from the manual seems to say that the supplement is only valid for, at most, one return journey; my understanding as a passenger however has always been that they're like a first class upgrade ‘day pass’, and this from NRE seems to bear that out:

This allows travel in First Class accommodation on trains within the Network Railcard area on for the date shown on the supplement ticket.

So under that interpretation and my original belief, it would (for example) be possible to buy a discounted 1–6 travelcard plus a supplement and use first class all day on trains in London for no further cost.

Which is correct?

 

[TonyR]

If it were valid over the whole network why would they need a start and destination station printed on it?

 

[Be3G]

Presumably just as a bit of a hack – in the same way that the origin printed on an inboundary London travelcard has no real use either.

 

[BW]

Anyhow, these £5 upgrades for Gold Card holders - I'm curious about how many staff here know about them, or how to issue them, or ever do so?

I used one recently for a journey from Paddington to Newbury one Wednesday. I picked it up, along with the tickets, at the FCC office in St Pancras, where it took the ticket office a good 10 minutes to figure out how to sell me one, but they eventually managed it.

There was no ticket check on the way out, but on the return journey, the RPI first claimed it was a weekend supplement (despite it having the day's date printed on it), then that it was only valid in one direction and I needed to buy some other upgrade at £15. When I refused to do that, he disappeared for 5 minutes to consult someone else, or his manual. He returned looked a little crestfallen, told me it was fine, and left.

In short, be prepared for hassle obtaining and using them.

 

[MichaelHopkins]

I have great trouble buying these upgrades.

At my local station, Farnham, only one of the staff has a clue, and I've been given every excuse under the sun, including being accused of attempted fraud for asking for one. This despite the fact that SWT have leaflets explaining their existence!

I've regularly written to SWT, whose customer service department's replies vary from "we'll remind them how to issue them" through to "eh?".

I've tried buying them at North Camp, but the chap, whose been in their ticket office since Adam was a boy claimed never to have heard of them. I've even had mixed success at Reading! On valid FGW trains I've been told they're only valid on turbos and not HSTs.

What would be *really* useful is to be able to tell tciket office staff how to find it on their systems.

 

[philjo]

I tried 3 different FCC stations without success when trying to obtain one a couple of months ago.
The ticket clerk at one FCC zone 1 London station on the Tahameslink route hadn't got a clue what I was asking for never mind knowing how to issue it.
The helpful lady at my local station tried for about 15 minutes but she couldn't get the machine to issue one.
Anyway I just got on the train (Paddington to Malvern HST - my ticket was split at Worcester to get Gold card discount/1st uppgrade).
The train manager issued the £5 upgrade ticket but it took him about 10 minutes to work out how to do it on his machine. The ticket check was on departure from Slough and he finally issued the ticket just as the train pulled into Reading where he was handing the train over to another TM.
One the way back, the train manager didn't know how to issue it & initially thought it was only available at weekends - when I showed him the upgrade ticket I had got for the outward journey he accepted it was valid on weekdays and said he would find out & get back to me. no one came back before the train had arrived into Paddington!

 

[RJ]

Hello all,

Been meaning to post this for a while, after reading one of Mr Barry Doe's lastest staff bashing efforts a few weeks back - the guy has some valid points at times but surely he has the intelligence to understand that poor staff training is the fault of the TOC, not the staff themselves? He genuinely appears to think at times that a lot of railway staff who make mistakes just can't be bothered to do it properly - as if doing it wrongly somehow requires less effort? Or does he just fail to appreciate the way some of his writing comes across I wonder?

Anyhow, these £5 upgrades for Gold Card holders - I'm curious about how many staff here know about them, or how to issue them, or ever do so? I expect Barry would be interested to know this too if he ever joins us on here? Where does one find this secretive supplement in ones electronical ticketybox, and what are the conditions of its issue? All the colleagues I have spoken to appear to do the usual, slightly unofficial thing of excessing STD season holders in first using the relevant standard single price as the starting point. None so far has known anything about it supposedly being a fiver if you're a Gold Card holder, and presumably most of the holders don't know either.

I'm perplexed; is there a bit of a scandal going on here? Hopefully those of you who are considerably more informed than most can shed some light!

I know how to do them on all of the ticket issuing systems I've come across at work. I wasn't shown - I just play around with the software when it's quiet to see what I can find. Even if I was shown during training, I'd probably forget as it's one of those once-in-a-blue-moon requests. When I worked at a London terminal, I only sold one in a year.

So if you ever manage to find me at work, rest assured you, any mystery shoppers, investigative journalists or any customer will be able to obtain your Gold Card supplements without any problems

 

[PermitToTravel]

Which they can, if it's a weekend...

If I hold a gold card from Rectory Road to London Terminals, can I, on a weekday, use an upgrade between Cambridge and King's Cross?

 

[class303]

Hello. I've got a gold card, my season ticket is zone 1-3 on oyster.

Say i wanted to spend a day bashing a load of lines in south London on a paper 1-6 zone travelcard (with railcard discount) can I buy the supplement with it and is it valid the whole day?

I'd be fun to bash lines in 1st class all day for a deep sea diver. I'm well aware "1st class" in commuter land amounts to not much at all.

what do you think?

 

[Be3G]

That'd be absolutely fine. The travelcard would be valid from 10am on a weekday (all day at the weekend), with the supplement having the same validity except it can't be used to depart a London Terminal, or travel between Clapham Junction and London, between 4pm and 7pm on weekdays.