Going on to the sidings without hi vis top

[Railwayowl80]

So maybe a long shot but would anyone know what the implications would be for an employee walking onto a track with no hi vis in the sidings.

My supervisor did it a few days ago he’s had a lot on his father in law has cancer and doesn’t have long left so he’s been really stressed lately the depot manager seen him and shouted over where’s your hi vis and he went back to his car apologised and put it on.

He’s now been told he has to right a statement as it’s being investigated and they are checking cctv all this has got him all worked up thinking he’s going to be sack.
Thanks

 

[Efini92]

If it’s as clear cut as you say I can’t see much coming from it.
He had a Hi Viz and went to get it. Perfectly understandable to have a slip under the circumstances.

 

[Railwayowl80]

It is literally as I’ve stated I said the same thing to him but his boss has said they have consulted HR like don’t want to play done the importance of wearing correct PPE because it’s there for a reason just sounds like over kill

 

[windnoise69]

This depends on many things, and with industrial relations at an all time low things could escalate quickly that maybe wouldn’t so 18 months ago, which would probs be a suitable conversation of “don’t let me see it again”.

Technically worst case you could look at gross misconduct & failure to comply with the employers PPE requirements under the health and safety at work act 1974.

 

[43066]

So maybe a long shot but would anyone know what the implications would be for an employee walking onto a track with no hi vis in the sidings.

Very few implications, I should have thought!

I’ve done so myself a couple of times having forgotten my viz. I made the depot signaller aware in case I was reported as a possible trespasser and nothing else was said.

the depot manager seen him and shouted over where’s your hi vis and he went back to his car apologised and put it on.

Sounds like the depot manager is a typical railway jobsworth throwing his weight around! I would advise your supervisor to write the statement, speak to his union rep, and put in a grievance if things continue to escalate.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2023 ==

Technically worst case you could look at gross misconduct & failure to comply with the employers PPE requirements under the health and safety at work act 1974.

Gross misconduct for forgetting a viz?!

 

[Railwayowl80]

Sounds like the depot manager is a typical railway jobsworth throwing his weight around! I would advise your supervisor to write the statement, speak to his union rep, and put in a grievance if things continue to escalate.

Pretty much what I said he’s taken full responsibility he’s going to write it out tonight and ring union rep tomorrow just to be on the safe side think with what’s going on in his home life he’s just a little stressed at the moment and it’s made this seem a lot worse then what it is.
Appreciate the replies

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2023 ==

Think the fact we have had a shift manager suspended for walking in front of a train while on the phone few days earlier probably got them wanting to make sure they hammer the importance of PPE while being on the sidings

 

[Smelliott]

Anything other than a friendly chat would seem extremely heavy handed.

 

[43066]

Pretty much what I said he’s taken full responsibility he’s going to write it out tonight and ring union rep tomorrow just to be on the safe side think with what’s going on in his home life he’s just a little stressed at the moment and it’s made this seem a lot worse then what it is.
Appreciate the replies

Think the fact we have had a shift manager suspended for walking in front of a train while on the phone few days earlier probably got them wanting to make sure they hammer the importance of PPE while being on the sidings

No worries - I hope it works out for him.

The point about the importance of PPE is a valid one, but there are ways and means of getting that across which don’t have to involve coming down like a ton of bricks and treating people like children - especially in a case like this where there’s such a serious family situation in the background. Typical old fashioned railway attitude unfortunately - thankfully many are more enlightened these days.

 

[GalaxyDog]

Jesus. Is this an Abellio TOC? /snark
But seriously, if he realised and retreated, and no harm done anything more than a conversation is seriously heavy handed.

 

[Railwayowl80]

Emr yeah honestly it’s crazy at the min to say we aren’t meant to have money we seemed to of employed mangers to look after managers I’m not anti management either haha

 

[GalaxyDog]

JTFC...and the penny drops from a terminal height.

 

[Horizon22]

Probably just a chat and maybe a verbal or written warning. It's a breach of something no doubt, even if heavy-handed.

Certainly won't be "getting the sack".

As for "managers to look after managers" well ultimately yes, most organisations have several layers of management and that's normal business practice.

 

[Railwayowl80]

Probably just a chat and maybe a verbal or written warning. It's a breach of something no doubt, even if heavy-handed.

Certainly won't be "getting the sack".

As for "managers to look after managers" well ultimately yes, most organisations have several layers of management and that's normal business practice.

hopefully it’s something like that he’s gone up to write his statement our night manager is coming in tomorrow to view the cctv so guess we will see

 

[Horizon22]

hopefully it’s something like that he’s gone up to write his statement our night manager is coming in tomorrow to view the cctv so guess we will see

Of course it does depend on whether he’s already been called up for the same things before.

 

[Seejwalker]

home life

This is why it’s important to let someone know if you have personal things going on at home.
You don’t have to delve into the details, but just enough to cover yourself if something like the above situation happens.
You can’t turn around after and make excuses if you haven’t made anyone aware.

This isn’t a pop at your colleague, just food for thought for other’s.

 

[Railwayowl80]

No nothing no previous warnings or incidents of a similar nature or any other nature really

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 May 2023 ==

This isn’t a pop at your colleague, just food for thought for other’s.

Couldn’t agree more he has notified his manager and tried to book some days off to help his wife with the home care his father in law is receiving as he’s had a specialist bed and chair delivered to make his home care more comfortable but his holiday request was denied

 

[Seejwalker]

holiday request was denied

This is where companies and management really let themselves down.

 

[henke7]

Would be ridiculously harsh if anything was to come of this. A close call and a slap on the wrist is enough.

I’ve seen myself go onto a line blockage on a summer’s night and forget my hard hat etc As long as you aren’t actually carrying out work and exit immediately to get the correct ppe then there’s no harm done.

 

[DavyCrocket]

This is terrible. Some things are easily forgotten when you’re in a stressful situation, especially when it’s home related. Even worse that manager seems to be failing to support.
Look up the lawful reasons for CCTV, that could be one to have handy should they present it as evidence when no lawful reason exists to use it, especially if known at the time who the person was.

If the situation with home life is affecting work, then it may be worth speaking with GP and or an Employee assistance (if company has) or occupational health, as well as a Trade union rep, and give consideration to taking sick leave.

Hope for the best

 

[Railwayowl80]

Appreciate the advice ill be sure to let him know

 

[ComUtoR]

Look up the lawful reasons for CCTV, that could be one to have handy should they present it as evidence when no lawful reason exists to use it, especially if known at the time who the person was.

Terrible advice. The CCTV in this case is perfectly valid.

 

[king_walnut]

I forgot to put mine on once and was reported for it. Manager called me a silly bollocks and told me not to do it again.

If I kept doing it then obviously I'd expect to have to deal with more formal action.

 

[Muse29]

Having worked in the depressing corporate world, I have seen managers take the opportunity to shaft people they don't rate and seek to manage them out. Obviously this isn't quite so easy in the railway where unions offer protection but who knows what the relationship is like between these people. Perhaps officious manager type wants to get rid of matey and therefore will take this as far as it can go.

Or maybe he's just a jobsworth bollix. There's plenty of them around!

 

[43066]

Having worked in the depressing corporate world, I have seen managers take the opportunity to shaft people they don't rate and seek to manage them out. Obviously this isn't quite so easy in the railway where unions offer protection but who knows what the relationship is like between these people. Perhaps officious manager type wants to get rid of matey and therefore will take this as far as it can go.

Exactly the same on the railway. This is why a good union rep is worth their weight in gold. They will have experience of similar cases and be able to identify situations where a manager is treating someone differently due to a grudge, for example.

Not to say it happens often, but it’s a possibility, and sone railway roles are perhaps more vulnerable to this than most due to loan working, remote supervision etc.

Or maybe he's just a jobsworth bollix. There's plenty of them around!

The railway has more than its fair share!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Is this "manager" a graduate by any chance looking to make an impression on his masters? Plenty of them where I come from who like to "manage people out" if their faces don't fit.

Clearly this employee has a lot on his mind and deserves at the very least, some compassionate leave

 

[deltic]

Given a health and safety alert went out very recently about the death of a contractor on HS2 where rumour has it, it may have been down to them not wearing the right PPE there may be a twitchiness about ensuring staff are properly equipped.

 

[pdeaves]

Gross misconduct for forgetting a viz?!

Anything other than a friendly chat would seem extremely heavy handed.

Of course it does depend on whether he’s already been called up for the same things before.

I think that’s a very important point. In the general case (we don’t know the specific), someone who’s been reminded several times already is asking for stronger action.

 

[Robsey]

He shouldn't be anywhere near a train with this on his mind. You sign on to say you've got no issues on your mind that could affect the safety of driving a train. You'd hope the company's chain of care would look after him... failing that he should go sick, I'm sure any doctor would be happy to provide him with a sick not given the circumstances.

 

[LCC106]

He made a silly yet potentially serious mistake. He should speak to his union rep. He should be taken off safety critical duties in the short term and the company seek to assist his current situation.