Go South Coast

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'd have said the simplest thing would be just to extend one 11 an hour beyond West Totton, no need to mess with the 12 or the other 11s.
I get the point about an extra vehicle being expensive but it doesn't actually need an extra vehicle in terms of overall allocation: you replace the T3/4 with extensions to the 11. Essentially you're combining the two services into one to allow through journeys to Southampton. You just run it initially on those two days that the T3/4 runs, and then if it attracts more customers you look at moving it to 6 days/week.

The T3/T4 is just an off peak service operated on a Tues/Thurs using a vehicle that does a 5 in the morning and a 539 schools run in the afternoon.

You're talking about changing the 11 so it has one timetable on Tues/Thurs, and a different timetable on Mon/Wed/Fri. Is the hassle really worth the benefit? I suspect not.

 

[baza585]

The 49 is operated from the small Botley outstation, usually with a swap of vehicles around lunchtime.

Indeed it is, though the vehicles run dead to/from Winchester. The morning 49 bus normally finds it's way back to Botley in the evening on the 1745 to Wickham, whilst the afternoon 49 normally runs from Botley dead to Alton(!) to take up the 0725 64 to Winchester.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2025 ==

While we're on the subject of HCC tendered services, I wonder how cost to HCC would compare of extending one 14 every 2 hours to Durley, Bishop's Waltham and Eastleigh versus operating the slightly odd 49 (?) Stagecoach service as at present, which seems an ineffective replacement for the traditional 7/8 services. The Stagecoach vehicle has to presumably come empty from Winchester while a lengthened 14 every two hours would be an extension of existing services and would have an outstation (Eastleigh) at the far end. From a layperson's perspective a 14 extension "looks" cheaper to operate but I am no expert on the matter.

Great minds think alike! The 49 timetable is an absolute dogs breakfast, apparently designed by someone at HCC without consulting any potential operators.

I have suggested this change to my local councillor who has forwarded it on to HCC. It would provide access to Southampton without the need to change and by running each way alternately around the loop would enable many inter village journeys which were lost when the 49 replaced the X9/10.

I'm not holding my breath though, and my councillor thinks it's a very good idea which probably means it won't happen........

 

[Towers]

Regarding the Envirosetis, the NFT Red Route does not pass under Ampress bridge, so is there any reason why they could be used on this route?
I note both 1821 and 1825 have been regular performers on all three NFT routes
A shame given the New Forest becoming increasingly congested because of increasing visitor numbers, and the NFT has been hailed as a success in providing an alternative to the car.

Is it not the case that the EvoSetis are needed for the Swanage runs and aren’t really in a position to be spared for the NFT?

*I love the idea of an Enviroseti, by the way! Might become a reality if AD end up selling out what’s left of their ailing business…

 

[341o2]

I am referring to the following news item published at the end of 2023. If successful, the new fleet would enter service next year
Unconfirmed report that the buses displaced would be cascaded to Lymington garage and replace the 05 vehicles.

Quote

Bus operators are hoping to add 10 new electric double-decker buses to their fleet.

Morebus and Dorset Council have submitted a bid for funding that would see a raft of zero emission buses arrive in the county.
The funding, part of the next phase of the Department for Transport’s ZEBRA (Zero Emission Bus Regional Area) scheme, would be used to revolutionise the operator’s Purbeck Breezer routes 40 and 50
If the bid is successful, the funding awarded will be added to investment already ring-fenced by Morebus and Dorset Council, resulting in a total of £6.4m.

This will secure 10 new, all electric open top double decker buses - complete with tap on, tap off technology for contactless payments, USB charging points for all seats, and next stop audio and visual announcements.

https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/24011641.morebus-dorset-council-apply-electric-bus-funding/

 

[James H]

The funding application was unsuccessful

 

[Towers]

Was it not also speculated that there is no suitable vehicle available to meet the requirements for the routes?

 

[OptareOlympus]

The zebra2 bid was unsuccessful and the Wright StreetDeck Electroliner demonstrator that was trialled was unsuitable, both for the ferry and for the range required for the 40.

The Evosetis are too high to be cascaded to Lymington. Trials took place but clearance was too tight and relied on the bus not bouncing as it passed under Ampress Bridge.

 

[PTR 444]

I'd have said the simplest thing would be just to extend one 11 an hour beyond West Totton, no need to mess with the 12 or the other 11s.
I get the point about an extra vehicle being expensive but it doesn't actually need an extra vehicle in terms of overall allocation: you replace the T3/4 with extensions to the 11. Essentially you're combining the two services into one to allow through journeys to Southampton. You just run it initially on those two days that the T3/4 runs, and then if it attracts more customers you look at moving it to 6 days/week.

While we're on the subject of HCC tendered services, I wonder how cost to HCC would compare of extending one 14 every 2 hours to Durley, Bishop's Waltham and Eastleigh versus operating the slightly odd 49 (?) Stagecoach service as at present, which seems an ineffective replacement for the traditional 7/8 services. The Stagecoach vehicle has to presumably come empty from Winchester while a lengthened 14 every two hours would be an extension of existing services and would have an outstation (Eastleigh) at the far end. From a layperson's perspective a 14 extension "looks" cheaper to operate but I am no expert on the matter.

I’d say the best way to operate a 14 extension would be to extend 1bph past Hedge End Station to Botley and Bishop’s Waltham, with alternate journeys running via Durley and Curdridge. I think there should also be a morning peak journey from Bishop’s Waltham to Southampton direct from Durley to Hedge End Station via Bubb Lane, skipping out Boorley Green, Botley and Hedge End Village.

An 11 extension could work in a similar manner. Extend 1bph past the West Totton Morrisons to Cadnam with alternate journeys running via Woodlands and Winsor. This route could also have a morning peak variant which skips out the villages and runs direct via the A336 between Cadnam and Totton, then on to Southampton.

 

[WibbleWobble]

I think we need to put this Cadnam discussion to bed. It just won't happen - you only have to look at the current service provision to prove that it isn't good bus territory. A three-day-a-week service with buses running alternately every two hours each shows that it is a token service provided by Hampshire County Council, and one that has faced the axe more than once due to their repeated cutbacks.

HCC have repeatedly reduced it back over the years - even the 2003 timetable, which shows a provision that most of these suggestions are repeating, states that most journeys back then were financially supported. It is rather wealthy territory being on the edge of the New Forest; looking on Right Move shows a lot of properties in the locale with seven-figure prices!

The only way a commercial provision could be provided would be part of a service heading further west towards Ringwood, Bournemouth etc. That would just be a minor diversion using the A336 instead of using the motorway, but as discussed elsewhere such routes don't tend to last.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think we need to put this Cadnam discussion to bed. It just won't happen - you only have to look at the current service provision to prove that it isn't good bus territory. A three-day-a-week service with buses running alternately every two hours each shows that it is a token service provided by Hampshire County Council, and one that has faced the axe more than once due to their repeated cutbacks.

HCC have repeatedly reduced it back over the years - even the 2003 timetable, which shows a provision that most of these suggestions are repeating, states that most journeys back then were financially supported. It is rather wealthy territory being on the edge of the New Forest; looking on Right Move shows a lot of properties in the locale with seven-figure prices!

The only way a commercial provision could be provided would be part of a service heading further west towards Ringwood, Bournemouth etc. That would just be a minor diversion using the A336 instead of using the motorway, but as discussed elsewhere such routes don't tend to last.

Quite.

Think people need to realise how much it actually costs to run a bus. Every extra bus you run is c.£200k (as a rule of thumb) so blithely saying "just an extra bus" is really missing the point. IIRC, the old 31/31A was subsidised past Totton to Fritham and Cadnam and that was 30 years ago.

 

[Gc1986]

Stagecoach West have lost the contract for Cirencester College from Swindon. Swindon Buses will be taking on some of these services. More Double Deckers possibly required for these services from September?

 

[DaveLondon]

Stagecoach West have lost the contract for Cirencester College from Swindon. Swindon Buses will be taking on some of these services. More Double Deckers possibly required for these services from September?

I understand that much of the work has gone to Pulhams - another Go Ahead subsidiary of course.

 

[James H]

Seems to be a mismatch between BODS data and reality - bustimes.org is showing that the Bournemouth Unibus routes are in non-term-time mode, whereas there are still a couple of weeks of full service left.

This means that the U2 has disappeared entirely on bustimes

 

[nw1]

Seems to be a mismatch between BODS data and reality - bustimes.org is showing that the Bournemouth Unibus routes are in non-term-time mode, whereas there are still a couple of weeks of full service left.

This means that the U2 has disappeared entirely on bustimes

Bournemouth appears to have an extended term-time schedule... in Southampton the vacation timetables are already in place. I guess the university in Bournemouth keeps going for a bit longer than in Southampton?

 

[WibbleWobble]

It is finishing unusually late this year - the term finishes at the end of next week. I can see the data has been updated on the BODS portal so expect Bustimes to be sorted overnight (I think).

 

[Gloster]

A Salisbury Reds double-decker was burnt out on the Isle of Wight very early this morning as a result of a fire in the engine bay. It was over here for the festival traffic, but not in service at the time; the driver was unhurt.

 

[adc82140]

I believe it was one of the ex Salisbury Reds buses that was retained over on the island for Festival work, rather than one of the regular fleet.

 

[Beemax]

I believe it was one of the ex Salisbury Reds buses that was retained over on the island for Festival work, rather than one of the regular fleet.

1994, a fairly ancient Plaxton President which was originally a Vectis bus

 

[Flange Squeal]

I’m pretty sure there isn’t as I can find no obvious mention of the other by either party, but does anyone know if there is any link between Go-Ahead Group (of whom the Bluestar brand is obviously part of) and a Canadian coach operator called Bluestar Coachlines. The logos are remarkably similar…


Bluestar logo of the Southampton bus operator


Bluestar Coachlines logo of the Canadian coach operator

 

[Lynford1976]

I’m pretty sure there isn’t as I can find no obvious mention of the other by either party, but does anyone know if there is any link between Go-Ahead Group (of whom the Bluestar brand is obviously part of) and a Canadian coach operator called Bluestar Coachlines. The logos are remarkably similar…

View attachment 182337
Bluestar logo of the Southampton bus operator

View attachment 182338
Bluestar Coachlines logo of the Canadian coach operator

No link at all. It's believed the latter has copied the former...

 

[Andyh82]

The Swindon fleet looks smarter now with the newer double deckers replacing the old ones that were basically still in Thamesdown livery.

I presume the small number of Scania Omnicity single decks that are in Southern Vectis or Morebus liveries will be getting withdrawn soon? They seem to be mostly used on schools or Nationwide shuttles

When the rebuilt town centre roads reopen is the plan for the bus station to be closed? It’s pretty awful but would look a bit better if someone just went through with a wet cloth. It does have a lot of layover space for both Swindon Bus and Stagecoach

 

[Towers]

Noted one of the HF66 ADLs in Poole today, still in full Bluestar regalia but with a very large ‘school’ sign above the rear window. That obviously tallies with another poster’s info a while back that these had been allocated “schools only” or similar. I still can’t see the sense in utilising the highest spec, lowest capacity deckers in the fleet for this, rather than the ratty Omnideckers etc, is it permanent do we know?

 

[OptareOlympus]

Noted one of the HF66 ADLs in Poole today, still in full Bluestar regalia but with a very large ‘school’ sign above the rear window. That obviously tallies with another poster’s info a while back that these had been allocated “schools only” or similar. I still can’t see the sense in utilising the highest spec, lowest capacity deckers in the fleet for this, rather than the ratty Omnideckers etc, is it permanent do we know?

Again, there are five Bluestar table MMCs currently at morebus. 1643/4 at Poole and 1645-7 at Swanage. All are primarily allocated to school runs. Exams are taking place so pupil numbers are lower at this time of year. Those at Swanage also work routes 30/35/40 if needed.

All 5 are returning to Bluestar route 1 at the end of September.

 

[Towers]

Again, there are five Bluestar table MMCs currently at morebus. 1643/4 at Poole and 1645-7 at Swanage. All are primarily allocated to school runs. Exams are taking place so pupil numbers are lower at this time of year. Those at Swanage also work routes 30/35/40 if needed.

All 5 are returning to Bluestar route 1 at the end of September.

Oh, I missed that last bit! What’s that all about then?

 

[Marcus Fryer]

All 5 are returning to Bluestar route 1 at the end of September.

Does that mean that some of the HF25 xxx registration ‘route one’ branded E400MMC will be debranded and moved to other routes?

 

[nw1]

Does that mean that some of the HF25 xxx registration ‘route one’ branded E400MMC will be debranded and moved to other routes?

Would surprise me as the 1 is one of Bluestar's premier routes, so it would be a bit odd if new vehicles, and branded ones at that, were removed from it. The new "theone" branding is not only on vehicles but also at bus stops.

More likely 1643-7 return to other Bluestar routes, I'd have thought. Perhaps the 17 and/or the 19/19a as of all the mostly-double-deck routes, these routes have the oldest vehicles.

 

[Andyh82]

I know there has been a lot of talk of ‘old’ buses at Go South Coast, but I notice that even the older Scanias and Enviro 400s look like they’ve had interior refurbishments

I travelled on one that had the oldest version of the Morebus livery where the red has faded somewhat, and inside the seats looked clean and fairly new, presumably this is what you get by having Hants and Dorset Trim as part of the group. The ones that carry the latest more livery look even better.

Compare to a similar age First Bus is travel on back at home, where the seats could be the faded well worn originals from 15 years ago

It’s always worth looking at the condition inside and out, rather than just the age on a fleetlist

 

[WibbleWobble]

I presume the small number of Scania Omnicity single decks that are in Southern Vectis or Morebus liveries will be getting withdrawn soon? They seem to be mostly used on schools or Nationwide shuttles

They got a stay of execution to work on Nationwide as bigger buses were needed to replace the minibuses. The requirement has already gone down because one of the Nationwide sites has recently closed.

I would imagine it depends on the building society's future requirements. However, one has recently turned up at Lymington to replace a B7RLE which was sent to Bournemouth because of the new 11/21.

When the rebuilt town centre roads reopen is the plan for the bus station to be closed? It’s pretty awful but would look a bit better if someone just went through with a wet cloth. It does have a lot of layover space for both Swindon Bus and Stagecoach

Yes - the bus station site is earmarked for redevelopment as part of a larger scheme north of Fleming Way.

 

[OptareOlympus]

Does that mean that some of the HF25 xxx registration ‘route one’ branded E400MMC will be debranded and moved to other routes?

Increased PVR on the 1.

 

[nw1]

Increased PVR on the 1.

Ah, so is the 1 getting extra peak journeys? Or even an enhanced off-peak frequency (every 10 mins)?

One thing that would be nice is to be able to maintain the 15-min off-peak frequency in the peak. For example morning peak arrivals at Southampton are 0815-0840-0905 at the terminus, or around 0810-0835-0900 in the northern part of the city centre.

Five extra buses sounds like a likely significant frequency enhancement: I'd expect only around two vehicles to be needed to maintain off-peak frequency in the busiest peak hour.
Looks like there are currently 9 all-day vehicle duties, with a tenth in the morning peak heading into Winchester (https://bustimes.org/vehicles/blus-1797?date=2025-06-19) which then does other things in the afternoon. So five extra vehicles is an approximately 50% enhancement.