Go-Op developments...

[Schnellzug]

Just to note, great to note how interesting my thread is going, someone from GOOP said that CSRE were the preferred builder for the DMU stock...

Infact,this can be seen on their homepage...

Looks like a CSRE Pacesetter to me...

Pacesetter? Perhaps not a choice of name calculated to generate many sales ...

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Pacesetter? Perhaps not a choice of name calculated to generate many sales ...

What do you want it to be called? The Legend 2000? The Atom Train? SUPERMAN!?

 

[anthony263]

It used to be called the Pacemaker til CSRE decided on a new name.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What do you want it to be called? The Legend 2000? The Atom Train? SUPERMAN!?

There must be better names out there than Pacesetter, not aided by your sarcasm. Pacesetter just sounds so, well, awful. Maybe Swift or Explorer would be better, but not Pacesetter!

 

[IanXC]

Just to note, great to note how interesting my thread is going, someone from GOOP said that CSRE were the preferred builder for the DMU stock...

Infact,this can be seen on their homepage...

Looks like a CSRE Pacesetter to me...

Maybe this is the key to the rolling stock issue. CSRE are trying to break into the European market, GO-OP want to set up a high risk OAO service. Given CSRE need to demonstrate their stock in use here, whats to say that there is not a very attractive offer being made for the supply of these Pacesetters?

Given the risk associated with breaking into new markets for CSRE I would have thought that they could quite easily justify coming to such an agreement. The potential use of the stock if the OAO folds will hardly be on their radar.

 

[Schnellzug]

What do you want it to be called? The Legend 2000? The Atom Train? SUPERMAN!?

It sounds suspciously reminscent of Pacer, that's all I was thinking.

 

[BestWestern]

Maybe this is the key to the rolling stock issue. CSRE are trying to break into the European market, GO-OP want to set up a high risk OAO service. Given CSRE need to demonstrate their stock in use here, whats to say that there is not a very attractive offer being made for the supply of these Pacesetters?

Given the risk associated with breaking into new markets for CSRE I would have thought that they could quite easily justify coming to such an agreement. The potential use of the stock if the OAO folds will hardly be on their radar.

I think it might well be blocked for 'political' reasons, to be honest. The sardine-like commuters of Northern land would rightly do their nut if they found out that a fleet of brand spanking new units was being delivered to Mickey Mouse Railways Ltd whilst the Government continually refuses to provide any more stock for proper train operators who are desperately in need. Whether it's a private arrangement between an OAO and the manufacturer would be irrelevant, if there's a sniff at new trains the DfT are going to want them sent somewhere useful. I guess they could send the new stuff up north and give the co-op some Pacers to play with.

 

[WestCoast]

There must be better names out there than Pacesetter, not aided by your sarcasm. Pacesetter just sounds so, well, awful. Maybe Swift or Explorer would be better, but not Pacesetter!

Swift or Explorer, to me, sound a little 'typical' and non-distinctive, especially if they're aiming at the European market.

Acronyms can work well - like the Stadler FLIRT - the Fast Innovative Light Regional Train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It sounds suspciously reminscent of Pacer, that's all I was thinking.

The SuperPacer!

Having said that, I would hope that TOCs/ROSCOs/Governments were not swayed too much by fancy names and glossy brochures, but then again they probably are....

 

[BestWestern]

Acronyms can work well - like the Stadler FLIRT - the Fast Innovative Light Regional Train.

Umm, spot the deliberate mistake?!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Swift or Explorer, to me, sound a little 'typical' and non-distinctive, especially if they're aiming at the European market.

Still better than Pacesetter though!

Further, your acronyms din't match.

 

[WestCoast]

Umm, spot the deliberate mistake?!

Further, your acronyms din't match.

Just keeping everyone alert....

Fast Light Innovative Regional Train.

 

[Wath Yard]

It is hardly suprising CSRE have been chosen as preferred bidder as their trains are cheap, which is why the plan put forward to replace the Pacers was with CSRE trains. As CSRE have no experience of building trains for the UK market it won't just be a case of delivery followed by immediate entry into service.

Just for reference Hitachi's first trains for the UK were ordered in June 2005 and didn't enter service until 2009, and Hitachi had the foresight of testing a lot of their equipment on UK trains prior to gaining an order. GO-OP! are planning to start running services in 2014.

 

[Schnellzug]

How about Fast Adaptable Regional Train?


What could Pacer be an acronym of, I wonder?

 

[Wath Yard]

I think it might well be blocked for 'political' reasons, to be honest. The sardine-like commuters of Northern land would rightly do their nut if they found out that a fleet of brand spanking new units was being delivered to Mickey Mouse Railways Ltd whilst the Government continually refuses to provide any more stock for proper train operators who are desperately in need. Whether it's a private arrangement between an OAO and the manufacturer would be irrelevant, if there's a sniff at new trains the DfT are going to want them sent somewhere useful. I guess they could send the new stuff up north and give the co-op some Pacers to play with.

The DfT have absolutely no say in open access operations and certainly can't tell OAO's what stock they can use or requisition their stock.

 

[BestWestern]

Poor Acceleration, Crappy Excruciating Ride?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The DfT have absolutely no say in open access operations and certainly can't tell OAO's what stock they can use or requisition their stock.

Hmm, yes but they can pull many strings! Otherwise we'd have all sorts of obscurities littering our network!

 

[WestCoast]

How about Fast Adaptable Regional Train

FART - Ferrovie Autolinee Regionali Ticinesi - already exists.

 

[Wath Yard]

No we wouldn't. There have only ever been 3 OAO's and only 2 of them ordered new stock.

Correction: Only 1 has ever ordered new stock, though they have ordered 2 types of train.

 

[Ivo]

No we wouldn't. There have only ever been 3 OAO's and only 2 of them ordered new stock.

Perhaps you can explain why I make it four (or even five) overall? HX (and HC?), GC, HT, WS...

 

[Wath Yard]

Heathrow services are not a real open access operator, and certainly not in the same sense as GC, HT, WSMR. BAA built the line to Heathrow, somehow I don't think GO-OP! are going to be building any new lines.

 

[Schnellzug]

Going back to the subject of names, the Global Giants do seem to be trying very hard to come up with names that are as contrived as possible, and mean nothing in any language while sounding vaguely Latinate; Velaro, Movia, Flexity, Atrocity and so on. While manufacturers of prestigious Vehicles often seem to be content with numbers or algebraic codes, don't they; S Class, 3 Series, A4, XF, R164, B7RLE and so on. Similarly, with Aircraft; I don't think there's any Airliners currently on the market that are known just by a name, but names like 747, A380 and so on still have 'recognition' among the public and prestige attached to them, don't they. Admittedly, a name can be easier to remember than ES64F4 or F140AC, I suppose.
Anyway, just musing.

 

[IanXC]

Going back to the subject of names, the Global Giants do seem to be trying very hard to come up with names that are as contrived as possible, and mean nothing in any language while sounding vaguely Latinate; Velaro, Movia, Flexity, Atrocity and so on.

Is that a suggestion for a particular manufacturer?

 

[WestCoast]

Going back to the subject of names, the Global Giants do seem to be trying very hard to come up with names that are as contrived as possible, and mean nothing in any language while sounding vaguely Latinate; Velaro, Movia, Flexity, Atrocity and so on. .

That's international marketing for you. There has been a tendency for foreign manufacturers of all products to use English for everything and I guess some manufacturers have made an attempt to try and make names cross borders more easily, rather than just attaching some generic English product name. Particularly relevant for Alstom, as Anglicisms are often opposed in their country of origin.

 

[OxtedL]

Nice idea. But it's interesting that in this document I found on Network Rail, East Sussex County Council (for what it's worth) are actually requesting that any cascaded stock from electrification work taking place elsewhere are sent to the Uckfield and Marshlink lines.

East Sussex CC really aren't that interested in rail, which is a nuisance to anyone hoping they'll join in the lobbying for improvements.

What I think they're actually asking for there (even if they don't realise it ) is extra capacity to relieve overcrowding on the lines, which is going to be an absolute nightmare to sort out without electrification.

 

[Schnellzug]

That's international marketing for you. There has been a tendency for foreign manufacturers of all products to use English for everything and I guess some manufacturers have made an attempt to try and make names cross borders more easily, rather than just attaching some generic English product name. Particularly relevant for Alstom, as Anglicisms are often opposed in their country of origin.

Who of course removed the 'h' so English speakers would know how to pronounce it ..

 

[DDB]

A rather simple mathematical question.

If they want to offer two-hourly departures from 0600 to 2000, that is eight trains per day - the number they are committed to. So where do the extra "hourly departures during the peak" come in? That would be more than eight...

I wondered this. My theory and it is only my theory is that if you take 0600 and 2200 as the limits of blocks of two hours then that is 7 blocks with one train in the same position in each.
i.e first train could be 0730 and last train 2130 or alternatively first train 06:30 last train 20:30

Then add one extra train in the middle of a two hour block for the peak (morning towards Birmingham, afternoon away) that gives 8.

Or it could be that they just can't count!

DBB

 

[Schnellzug]

Do they not just mean eight through workings to Birmingham or wherever they might end up, plus extra shortworkings in the peaks to say, Swindon or wherever? That might be a more sensible use for a 150, at any rate.

 

[anthony263]

I think they did plan a couple of workings to Birmingham with some trains terminating @ Oxford or Swindon

 

[Wath Yard]

They are not going to be using 150s. There are none spare, as I stated earlier the DfT probably wouldn't allow it anyway, and I doubt you could path a 150 on either the GWML or between Didcot and Birmingham.

 

[The Planner]

Didcot and Brum you probably could, except the freight boys would firmly stick two fingers up at them trying to nick a class 4 path.

 

[Tiny Tim]

The general thrust of this thread seems to be that Open Access Operators, 'Mickey Mouse' or otherwise don't really have much of a chance. The whole reason for the existence of Open Access seems to be to create the illusion of competition. The reality is that the TOCs will always have the upper hand. There wouldn't be much point in having franchises if they didn't confer some advantage to the holder. Go-Op aren't playing on a level field.