Go on the tracks

[VauxhallandI]

My girlfriend has just got home a tad late...

It turns out a bloke on the train at Silver Street pushed passed her and knocked her phone down on to the tracks.

He naturally buggered off.

Of course there are no staff present, and the helpline took the role of chocolate teapot.

1) said call a number!
2) said they would put her through to somewhere....naturally didn't work
3) second person then said there was no one to be put through to, upon pressure suddenly tried to put her through but they were shut

She approached the driver of a train going in the opposite direction who suggested she jumped down on to the tracks to get it!!!!!!

Eventually a bloke did this which I have stated is insane

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Absolute stupidity to do it, a phone is replaceable, a life isn't.

 

[O L Leigh]

I've had someone climb underneath my train in order to retrieve a mobile phone. This was after I'd almost taken his ruddy head off as I was stopping because he was leaning right out to try and see where it had fallen. Some people really haven't got the sense they were born with.

O L Leigh

 

[PHILIPE]

Absolute stupidity to do it, a phone is replaceable, a life isn't.

Could have been a man who looked left, right and then left again first, thereby demonstrating some common sense which are a pair of words that when put together, some people want to remove from the dictionary.

 

[O L Leigh]

Could have been a man who looked left, right and then left again first, thereby demonstrating some common sense which are a pair of words that when put together, some people want to remove from the dictionary.

Madness!! Do you know the sightlines at Silver Street? Or any other station for that matter? A train could be onto you in a matter of seconds from either direction.

I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as common sense.

O L Leigh

 

[DDB]

She approached the driver of a train going in the opposite direction who suggested she jumped down on to the tracks to get it!!!!!!

If it was me I would report this. If the driver said this I would imagine his/her employer would wish to discuss their safety responsibilities with them.

DDB

 

[VauxhallandI]

If it was me I would report this. If the driver said this I would imagine his/her employer would wish to discuss their safety responsibilities with them.

DDB

It did cross my mind too

 

[dangie]

Absolute stupidity to do it, a phone is replaceable, a life isn't.

Absolutely agree.

However for a £400-£500 mobile phone had it happened to them I bet MOST on here would have done the same thing no matter what they say...!!

 

[Antman]

It did cross my mind too

Presumably the driver was only offering his own opinion and not quoting the rulebook?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Absolutely agree.

However for a £400-£500 mobile phone had it happened to them I bet MOST on here would have done the same thing no matter what they say...!!

The alternative would be to just leave it there for some scally!

 

[VauxhallandI]

Presumably the driver was only offering his own opinion and not quoting the rulebook?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The alternative would be to just leave it there for some scally!

In a position of arguable authority in this situation I would expect him not to pass on his opinion

 

[Antman]

In a position of arguable authority in this situation I would expect him not to pass on his opinion

What else could he say other than "leave the phone where it is and go and buy another one"?

 

[VauxhallandI]

What else could he say other than "leave the phone where it is and go and buy another one"?

How about "whatever you do, DO NOT go on the tracks"?

 

[Be3G]

Firstly: I am not condoning life-risking behaviour!

But I will add that Silver Street is probably freer of risk than some other stations when it comes to jumping down on the tracks. Almost every passenger train that passes through stops there, and most of the ones that don't stop at the next station northbound (Edmonton Green), which is close enough down the line to be able to see a train sitting at the platform there. In peak times the speed of the trains is pretty low, owing to the stops every couple of minutes and the frequency of trains – even the few ‘fast’ ones can't build up that much speed.

So, whilst – again – I am not condoning jumping on to the tracks, I can see how someone who knows the local train service well and is familiar with the area might decide it's fairly safe for themselves to jump down. (I do acknowledge there're various other difficulties involved too, not least of which is getting back up again…)

 

[O L Leigh]

Familiarity with the service pattern does not reduce the risk at a certain location. What if a service is diverted, in which case it would be rattling through at a far higher speed and covering the distance in a much lower time? Some years ago a delayed train collided with a car on a user-worked crossing in Norfolk.

Also, the sightlines at Silver Street are not good. Yes you can see down to Edmonton Green but you cannot see around the corner up towards White Hart Lane. Also, even a stopping service will cover that distance is around 90 seconds while a non-stopping service would be significantly faster, so it's not as though you have loads of warning of an approaching train.

I'm glad you're not condoning getting down onto the track because it's seriously bloody dangerous, but you do seem to be excusing such behaviour.

O L Leigh

 

[muz379]

Familiarity with the service pattern does not reduce the risk at a certain location. What if a service is diverted, in which case it would be rattling through at a far higher speed and covering the distance in a much lower time? Some years ago a delayed train collided with a car on a user-worked crossing in Norfolk.

If Anything Familiarity with the service pattern is probably more dangerous because you dont think you need to keep a good lookout .

As you said just because you know the timetable doesn't mean you know ever train that could potentially approach from either direction , we could have diverted service's , late running services, services that have been made express , engineering , freight or ECS trains which are not in the timetable

This is why even dispatchers who sometimes have cause to go onto the line to retrieve items are required to let the signaler know what they are doing so trains can be stopped . Despite the fact that working at the same place everyday they will know the timetable and other trains that pass better than most .

As a guard I have had people approach me saying they have dropped various items onto the track , be it shoes , phones , wallets , keys , footballs , children's toys etc etc . My response every time is no I cant go onto the track and retrieve it . No there is not a number I can call to get your item retrieved . And no you cant go onto the track to retrieve it after the train has left .But I know 9 times out of 10 after the train has gone they will climb down and retrieve it . I cant really do anything to prevent them doing this ,its just a case of letting the signaler know so the next train can be cautioned to prevent a potential accident

 

[the sniper]

As a guard I have had people approach me saying they have dropped various items onto the track , be it shoes , phones , wallets , keys , footballs , children's toys etc etc . My response every time is no I cant go onto the track and retrieve it . No there is not a number I can call to get your item retrieved . And no you cant go onto the track to retrieve it after the train has left .

So you consider anything dropped onto the tracks as being lost into some kind of black hole? Once something is a metre away from the platform on the ballast, it's gone, walk away and move on with your life?

Tell me brother, if you dropped your wallet or keys on the ballast, would you serious not retrieve them? Being PTS and traction trained, with your own train protecting the line, why wouldn't you?

Surely the best official way to deal with the situation is to contact the signaller or your TOC control to get the MOM to come out and retrieve the item? Just telling a passenger that it's tough s*** and nothing can be done just leaves them with no option but to risk retrieving the item themselves...

 

[muz379]

So you consider anything dropped onto the tracks as being lost into some kind of black hole? Once something is a metre away from the platform on the ballast, it's gone, walk away and move on with your life?

Tell me brother, if you dropped your wallet or keys on the ballast, would you serious not retrieve them? Being PTS and traction trained, with your own train protecting the line, why wouldn't you?

Surely the best official way to deal with the situation is to contact the signaller or your TOC control to get the MOM to come out and retrieve the item? Just telling a passenger that it's tough s*** and nothing can be done just leaves them with no option but to risk retrieving the item themselves...

No Im realistic , as I said I know people go down onto the tracks to retrieve items themselves hence why if approached like this I will inform the signaler because it is almost certain they are going to trespass . But the official policy I have to follow if I like my employment and my bills being Paid is that people are not to go down and collect it and that I am not permitted to go on the line to retrieve it either . I dont make these rules I just follow them .

Im not being funny but im not going to loose my job and struggle to keep a roof over my head just because someone cant keep their phone/keys/wallet in their hands

Most of the time items are dropped people expect you to retrieve them from under the train , im sorry but I might have traction training but a guards traction training in no way equips them to do this safely .

In all honesty if I dropped my wallet and keys , No I wouldn't go down onto the track to retrieve them , I know the risks far more than the public and wouldn't put myself in danger like that . If It was my phone I have insurance that would replace this , if it was keys or wallet I would just cut my losses . I only have 2 cards and a driving license in my wallet and never really more than £20 in cash all of which can be replaced easily enough . And I only have a few keys so I can afford to get a new set cut .

Its not that I dont think I could get down there and back up in time . If I jump down straight after the train has left I know another train wont be through until that one is out of section which could take several minutes . But whats to say I dont jump down to retrieve them , slip on the ballast or sleepers fall and hurt myself and then cant get back up before the next train arrives ?

We get drivers slip and hurt themselves on ballast when getting off to ring a signaler (before GSMR) or changing ends or in sidings etc , and these are people that regularly walk on ballast and are wearing approved safety shoes . What makes a member of the public think they are immune from this risk ?

Do you not think the MOM has far more important things to be doing ?
Would you appreciate being stuck on a delayed train behind a points failure for longer than necessary because the MOM is miles away retrieving someones keys that they couldn't keep hold of ?

 

[Be3G]

I'm glad you're not condoning getting down onto the track because it's seriously bloody dangerous, but you do seem to be excusing such behaviour.

Not so much excusing, just, looking at it from the point of view of the person who jumped down.

 

[Antman]

No Im realistic , as I said I know people go down onto the tracks to retrieve items themselves hence why if approached like this I will inform the signaler because it is almost certain they are going to trespass . But the official policy I have to follow if I like my employment and my bills being Paid is that people are not to go down and collect it and that I am not permitted to go on the line to retrieve it either . I dont make these rules I just follow them .

Im not being funny but im not going to loose my job and struggle to keep a roof over my head just because someone cant keep their phone/keys/wallet in their hands

Most of the time items are dropped people expect you to retrieve them from under the train , im sorry but I might have traction training but a guards traction training in no way equips them to do this safely .

In all honesty if I dropped my wallet and keys , No I wouldn't go down onto the track to retrieve them , I know the risks far more than the public and wouldn't put myself in danger like that . If It was my phone I have insurance that would replace this , if it was keys or wallet I would just cut my losses . I only have 2 cards and a driving license in my wallet and never really more than £20 in cash all of which can be replaced easily enough . And I only have a few keys so I can afford to get a new set cut .

Its not that I dont think I could get down there and back up in time . If I jump down straight after the train has left I know another train wont be through until that one is out of section which could take several minutes . But whats to say I dont jump down to retrieve them , slip on the ballast or sleepers fall and hurt myself and then cant get back up before the next train arrives ?

We get drivers slip and hurt themselves on ballast when getting off to ring a signaler (before GSMR) or changing ends or in sidings etc , and these are people that regularly walk on ballast and are wearing approved safety shoes . What makes a member of the public think they are immune from this risk ?

Do you not think the MOM has far more important things to be doing ?
Would you appreciate being stuck on a delayed train behind a points failure for longer than necessary because the MOM is miles away retrieving someones keys that they couldn't keep hold of ?

If you didn't retrieve your wallet the chances are that somebody else would.

I have seen staff retrieve such items with a litter picking stick.

 

[Trainfan344]

Why don't we have litter pickers at every station so passengers can use these to reach down and grab their items?

 

[muz379]

If you didn't retrieve your wallet the chances are that somebody else would.

I have seen staff retrieve such items with a litter picking stick.

I know its likely they would . But by that time my cards would be cancelled anyway .

Ive had a shoe retrieved from the gap between my train and the platform before using one of these by a member of station staff .No problems with that if the station staff decided they wanted to do that . But I dont carry one of those on the train - I do agree in many situations if I did carry one it would resolve a lot of these situations . Because most of the dropped items go down the gap .

Why don't we have litter pickers at every station so passengers can use these to reach down and grab their items?

some scrote would steal them no doubt

 

[Strat-tastic]

It seems odd that if people are going to do it anyway then there's not a safe system in place. It's all very well making it a rule that you can't, but you have to accept a good proportion of people will break this rule to retrieve their property so why not allow for safe retrieval?

I think most items could be retrieved with a litter picker whilst lying on the platform and reaching over.

 

[47802]

There's been a couple of times when I dropped things onto the tracks, the 1st time when nobody was looking I jumped down and got it myself, on another occasion at a busier station one of the platform staff retrieved for me, of course these incidents were a good few years ago before the Health and Safety police state we have today.

 

[muz379]

It seems odd that if people are going to do it anyway then there's not a safe system in place. It's all very well making it a rule that you can't, but you have to accept a good proportion of people will break this rule to retrieve their property so why not allow for safe retrieval?

I think most items could be retrieved with a litter picker whilst lying on the platform and reaching over.

The only problem I can see with implementing a "safe" policy for retrieving items is that it would entail the person who has dropped said item ringing a number so a member of railway staff with PTS can come out to retrieve it

Now this is all good and well at staffed stations in the city . But in suburban and even more remote stations that are not staffed this is going to take time . Would people be prepared to wait an hour lets say for someone to come out and retrieve their item ?

In all honestly most people at these types of stations would just do what they do now which is jump down and grab their item . Completely oblivious to the risks that they are putting themselves in .

Given that I have seen a person walk off the end of the platform at Hazel grove and cross the tracks with their bicycle instead of using the lift that is provided there , I dont think a safe system would make much difference to some people especially if it is viewed as an inconvenience

We know that people are going to commit dangerous and illegal acts on the railway . Take cable theft , should we suddenly make it safer for cable thieves by sending them all on PTS courses and giving them the correct equipment and isolating the cables for them before they steal them ?

 

[Sanatogen]

If a MOM is available they'll often go and retrieve items for the public.

Often give MOMs a 2 minute line blockage for retrieving items.

 

[neilmc]

It seems to me that the danger of railway lines is a peculiarly British obsession.
Yes it is dangerous to venture on to the lines, when there's a busy service or third rail electrification, or you can't get back on to the platform if a train arrives suddenly. But I submit that in many cases its LESS dangerous than crossing a busy road, you just need the commonsense you would use every day, look, listen, watch the signals, etc - except that you can be prosecuted if you try!

Oh, unless you're using the numerous foot crossings around the country in which case you're quite entitled to take your life in your hands!

I wonder what people would make of the last days of steam when it seemed that everyone and his dog were strolling round sheds, clambering on engines, blocking the lines, etc. Don't recall anyone getting killed or even arrested!

 

[Antman]

It seems to me that the danger of railway lines is a peculiarly British obsession.
Yes it is dangerous to venture on to the lines, when there's a busy service or third rail electrification, or you can't get back on to the platform if a train arrives suddenly. But I submit that in many cases its LESS dangerous than crossing a busy road, you just need the commonsense you would use every day, look, listen, watch the signals, etc - except that you can be prosecuted if you try!

Oh, unless you're using the numerous foot crossings around the country in which case you're quite entitled to take your life in your hands!

I wonder what people would make of the last days of steam when it seemed that everyone and his dog were strolling round sheds, clambering on engines, blocking the lines, etc. Don't recall anyone getting killed or even arrested!

And not a hi viz top in sight, ahh the days before common sense was outlawed

 

[W-on-Sea]

I was once with a friend who dropped a book on the track (and a 3rd rail bit of track at that), getting off a train at Borough Green and Wrotham station. No station staff present, but two BTP officers on the platform, who told him (in more or less these words) that he shouldn't go down on to the track to get it, but on the other hand they were just leaving the station, and wouldn't see him if he did so, and in his position would probably do likewise.

 

[GB]

Yes it is dangerous to venture on to the lines, when there's a busy service or third rail electrification, or you can't get back on to the platform if a train arrives suddenly.

Have you ever tried getting back onto a platform from ballast height...its not the easiest maneuverer to make.

But I submit that in many cases its LESS dangerous than crossing a busy road, you just need the commonsense you would use every day, look, listen, watch the signals, etc - except that you can be prosecuted if you try!

In which cases and how do you define more or less dangerous? Watching a signal doesn't really help. Even if its a controlled signal at red at the end of the platform the part of the line you are on will still be open to traffic. The signal can change and the train can be at speed in a few seconds. Alternatively while your busy watching a signal, a train can quite easily come the other way on the same line with your back to it.

There is a reason track workers don't rely on signals (or a timetable for that matter) as a warning for approaching trains on an open line as there are too many variables to consider.

Oh, unless you're using the numerous foot crossings around the country in which case you're quite entitled to take your life in your hands!

Thats because its a right of way and you generally have a legal right to use it. There are also usually risk mitigation measures in place as well.

I wonder what people would make of the last days of steam when it seemed that everyone and his dog were strolling round sheds, clambering on engines, blocking the lines, etc. Don't recall anyone getting killed or even arrested!

Maybe, but times change. What may or may not have been legal xx years ago doesn't, and nor should it, reflect todays society.

 

[the sniper]

Do you not think the MOM has far more important things to be doing ?

Often they don't. Plus they're regularly sent out to lesser matters... Alternative they can turn up with BTP later when the person who's lost the item is now laid out in pieces along the track, when it's a more important matter!

Would you appreciate being stuck on a delayed train behind a points failure for longer than necessary because the MOM is miles away retrieving someones keys that they couldn't keep hold of ?

Don't you think they'd priorities jobs? If they're not miles away from the new points failure retrieving someone's lost house keys/wallet/phone, they could be even further away scrapping up someone's long deceased dead dog.

The only problem I can see with implementing a "safe" policy for retrieving items is that it would entail the person who has dropped said item ringing a number so a member of railway staff with PTS can come out to retrieve it

Now this is all good and well at staffed stations in the city . But in suburban and even more remote stations that are not staffed this is going to take time . Would people be prepared to wait an hour lets say for someone to come out and retrieve their item ?

In all honestly most people at these types of stations would just do what they do now which is jump down and grab their item . Completely oblivious to the risks that they are putting themselves in.

So it's better to do sod all and give them no choice but to break the law and risk their lives, completely oblivious to the danger they face? Fair enough if you've just followed your TOCs official policy on the matter, I don't think my TOC even has one, but I know what I'd do.