Go Cornwall Bus

[I'm here now]

Several of these will be two door and it’s suggested are to be converted to single door requiring them to be out of service for long periods at Thorntons or ADL.

Why can’t they just keep them that way?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Why can’t they just keep them that way?

Why would they want dual door buses with low lower deck capacity?

 

[Flange Squeal]

Why can’t they just keep them that way?

Why would they want dual door buses with low lower deck capacity?

Not to mention the centre door wheelchair ramps on London buses not being ideal in locations where street furniture placement hasn't factored their use in, nor them being compatible with most drive-in reverse-out bus stations like (from memory) Penzance and Cambourne.

 

[baza585]

Why would they want dual door buses with low lower deck capacity?

They could potentially use them in Plymouth routes within the city where the street furniture allows, and move the newer existing stock to Cornwall.

But I somehow doubt they will. Whether they will spend money to convert them to single door? I'd say marginal. Most London buses of this age will be pretty knackered.

 

[Bill Badger]

New route timetables showing on Bus times now

The detailed timetable suggests the new 17 will be bypassing Ludgvan and staying on the A30, which we leave the lower part of the village without any service.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They could potentially use them in Plymouth routes within the city where the street furniture allows, and move the newer existing stock to Cornwall.

But I somehow doubt they will. Whether they will spend money to convert them to single door? I'd say marginal. Most London buses of this age will be pretty knackered.

The 09/10 plates may simply be stop gaps for a year so less of an argument for doing those but could certainly look at doing the newer ones. Deckers with 64 seats is fine in London for standees and short hops.

In any case, I’d be surprised if they used the centre doors even in Plymouth. It’s been a single door operation for the last 40 years so throwing a random set of dual doors in there would cause more hassle than it’s worth.

 

[I'm here now]

The 09/10 plates may simply be stop gaps for a year so less of an argument for doing those but could certainly look at doing the newer ones. Deckers with 64 seats is fine in London for standees and short hops.

In any case, I’d be surprised if they used the centre doors even in Plymouth. It’s been a single door operation for the last 40 years so throwing a random set of dual doors in there would cause more hassle than it’s worth.

It might be good for their higher quality Sparx routes maybe?

 

[baza585]

The 09/10 plates may simply be stop gaps for a year so less of an argument for doing those but could certainly look at doing the newer ones. Deckers with 64 seats is fine in London for standees and short hops.

In any case, I’d be surprised if they used the centre doors even in Plymouth. It’s been a single door operation for the last 40 years so throwing a random set of dual doors in there would cause more hassle than it’s worth.

I'm sadly old enough to remember dual door Nationals and Atlanteans in Plymouth's fleet but I take the point...

Time will tell. I'm more interested in where First will redeploy the better Kernow stock!

 

[Goldfish62]

In any case, I’d be surprised if they used the centre doors even in Plymouth. It’s been a single door operation for the last 40 years so throwing a random set of dual doors in there would cause more hassle than it’s worth.

Although I've seen the centre doors routinely in use on Bluestar's Optare bodied E400s.

 

[Whiteway215]

U

I'm sadly old enough to remember dual door Nationals and Atlanteans in Plymouth's fleet but I take the point...

Time will tell. I'm more interested in where First will redeploy the better Kernow stock!

I have read officially there is a plan for the Kernow fleet. That is obvious but also quite a bit of speculation abounds. Not too long to wait now.

 

[Goldfish62]

U

I have read officially there is a plan for the Kernow fleet. That is obvious but also quite a bit of speculation abounds. Not too long to wait now.

Lucky OpCos that do get them. Although they're looking a bit tired internally now they're still very nice vehicles to travel in. I shall miss them.

 

[richard13]

The detailed timetable suggests the new 17 will be bypassing Ludgvan and staying on the A30, which we leave the lower part of the village without any service.

The new timetable on Traveline also shows it staying on the A30.

Might the 16 be adjusted to run that way?
The non First route alterations don't seem to be out yet.

 

[DaveHarries]

The new timetable on Traveline also shows it staying on the A30.

Might the 16 be adjusted to run that way?
The non First route alterations don't seem to be out yet.

The 16 already covers Ludgvan after serving Gulval.

Dave

 

[Goldfish62]

The 16 already covers Ludgvan after serving Gulval.

Dave

Yes, but there's no stops near where it intersects the 17.

Also Chy-an-Gweal Estate will be left without any bus service.

I can only assume there's some tightly-scheduled intetworking going on with another route for the couple of minutes extra it takes to run via Ludgvan needing removal.

 

[JKP]

Yes, but there's no stops near where it intersects the 17.

Also Chy-an-Gweal Estate will be left without any bus service.

I can only assume there's some tightly-scheduled intetworking going on with another route for the couple of minutes extra it takes to run via Ludgvan needing removal.

The journey time on the 17 between St Ives and Penzance is still 41 minutes.Possible error in the route description? Notify Go or Cornwall Council if affected.

 

[Goldfish62]

The journey time on the 17 between St Ives and Penzance is still 41 minutes.Possible error in the route description? Notify Go or Cornwall Council if affected.

You may very well be right. Looking at the timetables the 18 is timed at 6 minutes between Crowlas Star Inn and Long Rock Mexico Inn (both fine pubs), but the 17 takes 8 minutes.

Wouldn't be the first time there's been a registration-related error by GSW. The 5/5A is shown as serving Chywoone Crescent in Gwavas Estate including having a timing point there, but in reality buses do not serve it. It would be nigh on impossible with the long E200s that are used on the route.

 

[kernowbususer]

You may very well be right. Looking at the timetables the 18 is timed at 6 minutes between Crowlas Star Inn and Long Rock Mexico Inn (both fine pubs), but the 17 takes 8 minutes.

Wouldn't be the first time there's been a registration-related error by GSW. The 5/5A is shown as serving Chywoone Crescent in Gwavas Estate including having a timing point there, but in reality buses do not serve it. It would be nigh on impossible with the long E200s that are used on the route.

1/1A are registered to the roundabout only (Chywoone Avenue) which is what the 5/5A and the existing school bus on the 1/1A does now.

 

[DaveHarries]

Wouldn't be the first time there's been a registration-related error by GSW. The 5/5A is shown as serving Chywoone Crescent in Gwavas Estate including having a timing point there, but in reality buses do not serve it. It would be nigh on impossible with the long E200s that are used on the route.

What would be the maximum length to get round Chywoone Crescent then? While in Penzance on 29-Nov-2024 I did get a side-on photo of GCB 2440 (WA70 DYG) which is seated B41F standing by to leave on a Service 5.

Dave

 

[markymark2000]

In the interest of helpfulness, the data on Bustimes for the existing routes is what GSW have uploaded to Bus Open Data. The data for the new routes is from Traveline. It therefore may be that Traveline has the new data for existing routes but thanks to GSW thinking laws regarding legal timeframes don't apply to them (data for the 15th Feb should have been online on 4th Jan), this data hasn't got to Bustimes.

When GSW gets off their backsides and upload the data to bus open data, things may become more clear then because the data normally includes 'block' details so you can see any interworking.

Wouldn't be the first time there's been a registration-related error by GSW. The 5/5A is shown as serving Chywoone Crescent in Gwavas Estate including having a timing point there, but in reality buses do not serve it. It would be nigh on impossible with the long E200s that are used on the route.

Their data quality is shocking. There have been ample feedbacks provided via BODS and I know someone who has directly contacted GSW about it, got nowhere, and it's even been raised with GoAheads data manager and director for bus Martin Dean. Sadly there is not a single care in the whole group to fix the issues. It's sloppy, bone idleness within GoAhead group and more specifically the commercial staff members who refuse to fix the issues. How bad at your job do you have to be, to work in the commercial team route planning, but not have a clue about where most of the route stops? The best one I remember from this highly skilled team was was it took them a year to fix a remove a stop on the 42C where it shows serving a stop which was 20 odd miles away from Plymouth).

 

[GBM]

In the interest of helpfulness, the data on Bustimes for the existing routes is what GSW have uploaded to Bus Open Data. The data for the new routes is from Traveline. It therefore may be that Traveline has the new data for existing routes but thanks to GSW thinking laws regarding legal timeframes don't apply to them (data for the 15th Feb should have been online on 4th Jan), this data hasn't got to Bustimes.

When GSW gets off their backsides and upload the data to bus open data, things may become more clear then because the data normally includes 'block' details so you can see any interworking.


Their data quality is shocking. There have been ample feedbacks provided via BODS and I know someone who has directly contacted GSW about it, got nowhere, and it's even been raised with GoAheads data manager and director for bus Martin Dean. Sadly there is not a single care in the whole group to fix the issues. It's sloppy, bone idleness within GoAhead group and more specifically the commercial staff members who refuse to fix the issues. How bad at your job do you have to be, to work in the commercial team route planning, but not have a clue about where most of the route stops? The best one I remember from this highly skilled team was was it took them a year to fix a remove a stop on the 42C where it shows serving a stop which was 20 odd miles away from Plymouth).

I seem to remember the First scheduler was based in Scotland (?), but relied on old passing times and computerised estimated times for Cornish running boards. Despite driver protests at impossible running times, nothing was ever done.

 

[nw1]

When GSW gets off their backsides and upload the data to bus open data, things may become more clear then because the data normally includes 'block' details so you can see any interworking.

Not always, sadly.

Go South Coast (Bluestar) seem to come and go with this - sometimes they include it, sometimes they don't. The last time it was included (Oct 2024 IIRC) it didn't align with on-the-ground observations so presumably some last-minute alterations were made.

No idea whether Go Cornwall include it, though.

 

[Andyh82]

Looking on BusTimes GCB’s block data used to be all over the place with the same bus constantly changing diagram, although glancing now it looks to be a bit better

I often wondered if sometimes they only updated journeys that had changed so you had old block data for journeys with no change

 

[markymark2000]

I seem to remember the First scheduler was based in Scotland (?), but relied on old passing times and computerised estimated times for Cornish running boards. Despite driver protests at impossible running times, nothing was ever done.

Company decisions can be baffling sometimes. Commercial staff shouldn't be in their job if they cant timetable properly and work with local teams (doesn't just apply to GoAhead or First, but literally all companies with such a team)

Go South Coast (Bluestar) seem to come and go with this - sometimes they include it, sometimes they don't. The last time it was included (Oct 2024 IIRC) it didn't align with on-the-ground observations so presumably some last-minute alterations were made.

No idea whether Go Cornwall include it, though.

Go South Coast are more patchy with including it. Not sure why they ever stopped because the block data is still available via their website data. Go Cornwall and Plymouth Citybus tend to include it but it can be a little bit patchy sometimes such as the 12.

I often wondered if sometimes they only updated journeys that had changed so you had old block data for journeys with no change

GSW upload all of their data in blocks of a few weeks/months at a time and upload a full new dataset for each period. Each dataset tends to be hardcoded to end at a certain date which normally corresponds with timetable change dates or school holidays, or more recently Christmas. The datasets they uploaded today have a number of routes hardcoded to end on 21st Feb and so they are already late by a day uploading data for various routes for dates past 21st Feb.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

From an informed source the proposed intake for Go Cornwall.
39 x E400 plated between 09 and 13 plate.(17 ex Go ahead London, 14 ex Stagecoach London and 8 ex RATP)
20 x B9TL plated between 59 and 61 plate ex Go Ahead London.

Also due 7 x E200 from GAL and 4 x Mercedes Benz 516 ex Diamond NW/Preston.

A list I was passed today:

175 YX60FCF E200
177 YX60FCL E200
178 YX60FCM E200
180 YX60FCU E200 London Red
181 YX60FCV E200
182 YX60FCY E200
1321 LS68FOH Sprinter Strata
1322 LS68FOK Sprinter Strata
1323 LO19VXB Sprinter Strata
1324 LL69PXK Sprinter Strata
2200 YX11CPZ E200 London Red
4015 LX09FBZ ADL E400
4016 LX09FCC ADL E400
4017 SN60BZK ADL E400
4018 SN60BZL ADL E400
4019 SN60BZM ADL E400
4020 SN60BZO ADL E400
4021 SN60BZP ADL E400
4022 SN60BZR ADL E400
4023 SN60BZS ADL E400
4024 SN60BZV ADL E400
4025 SN60BZW ADL E400
4026 SN60BZX ADL E400
4027 SN60BZY ADL E400
4028 SN11BUV ADL E400
4029 SN11BUW ADL E400
4030 SN61BHD ADL E400
4031 SN61BGE ADL E400
4032 SN61DDL ADL E400
4033 SN13CJU ADL E400
4034 LX11BBO ADL E400
4035 LX11BBV ADL E400
4036 LX11BCE ADL E400
4037 LX11BCU ADL E400
4038 LX11BCV ADL E400
4039 LX11BCZ ADL E400 Red (repainted)
4040 LX11BDF ADL E400
4041 LX11BHZ ADL E400
4042 LX11BJU ADL E400
4043 LX11BKD ADL E400
4044 LX11BKN ADL E400
4045 LX12CZL ADL E400
4046 SN12AVZ ADL E400
4047 YX12FOH ADL E400 Red (repainted)
4048 YX12FOJ ADL E400 Red (repainted)
4049 YX12GHO ADL E400
4050 YX12GHU ADL E400
4051 YX62AEW ADL E400 Red (repainted)
4052 YX62BXF ADL E400
4053 YX62BYK ADL E400
4100 SN61BLV ADL E400H London Red
8001 LK59FDE B9 Gemini 2
8002 LK59FDF B9 Gemini 2
8003 LK59FDG B9 Gemini 2
8004 LK59FDJ B9 Gemini 2
8005 LK59FDV B9 Gemini 2
8006 LK59FDX B9 Gemini 2
8007 LK59FDZ B9 Gemini 2
8008 LK59FEF B9 Gemini 2
8009 LK59FEJ B9 Gemini 2
8010 LK59FEM B9 Gemini 2
8011 LK59FEU B9 Gemini 2
8012 LX59CZL B9 Gemini 2
8013 LX59CZM B9 Gemini 2
8014 BV10WWO B9 Gemini 2
8015 BV10WWP B9 Gemini 2
8016 BV10WWR B9 Gemini 2
8017 LX11FHZ B9 Gemini 2
8018 LX11FJE B9 Gemini 2
8019 LX11FJF B9 Gemini 2
8020 LJ61GWU B9 Gemini 2

 

[DaveHarries]

Another change I have spotted, not mentioned on the GCB website, is that there will be revisions to the 92, 92A & 92B. The new timetable effective 15-Feb-2026 which indicates that the 92A is to be dropped but all journeys will now run hourly as Service 92 which is rerouted via. St. Columb Minor (Church, currently covered by Service 92A only). Service 92B will continue to run on Sundays with no change in route or frequency but the Bank Holiday service is dropped.

Details on TravelineSW.

Dave

 

[LAIRA]

A list I was passed today:

175 YX60FCF E200
177 YX60FCL E200
178 YX60FCM E200
180 YX60FCU E200 London Red
181 YX60FCV E200
182 YX60FCY E200
1321 LS68FOH Sprinter Strata
1322 LS68FOK Sprinter Strata
1323 LO19VXB Sprinter Strata
1324 LL69PXK Sprinter Strata
2200 YX11CPZ E200 London Red
4015 LX09FBZ ADL E400
4016 LX09FCC ADL E400
4017 SN60BZK ADL E400
4018 SN60BZL ADL E400
4019 SN60BZM ADL E400
4020 SN60BZO ADL E400
4021 SN60BZP ADL E400
4022 SN60BZR ADL E400
4023 SN60BZS ADL E400
4024 SN60BZV ADL E400
4025 SN60BZW ADL E400
4026 SN60BZX ADL E400
4027 SN60BZY ADL E400
4028 SN11BUV ADL E400
4029 SN11BUW ADL E400
4030 SN61BHD ADL E400
4031 SN61BGE ADL E400
4032 SN61DDL ADL E400
4033 SN13CJU ADL E400
4034 LX11BBO ADL E400
4035 LX11BBV ADL E400
4036 LX11BCE ADL E400
4037 LX11BCU ADL E400
4038 LX11BCV ADL E400
4039 LX11BCZ ADL E400 Red (repainted)
4040 LX11BDF ADL E400
4041 LX11BHZ ADL E400
4042 LX11BJU ADL E400
4043 LX11BKD ADL E400
4044 LX11BKN ADL E400
4045 LX12CZL ADL E400
4046 SN12AVZ ADL E400
4047 YX12FOH ADL E400 Red (repainted)
4048 YX12FOJ ADL E400 Red (repainted)
4049 YX12GHO ADL E400
4050 YX12GHU ADL E400
4051 YX62AEW ADL E400 Red (repainted)
4052 YX62BXF ADL E400
4053 YX62BYK ADL E400
4100 SN61BLV ADL E400H London Red
8001 LK59FDE B9 Gemini 2
8002 LK59FDF B9 Gemini 2
8003 LK59FDG B9 Gemini 2
8004 LK59FDJ B9 Gemini 2
8005 LK59FDV B9 Gemini 2
8006 LK59FDX B9 Gemini 2
8007 LK59FDZ B9 Gemini 2
8008 LK59FEF B9 Gemini 2
8009 LK59FEJ B9 Gemini 2
8010 LK59FEM B9 Gemini 2
8011 LK59FEU B9 Gemini 2
8012 LX59CZL B9 Gemini 2
8013 LX59CZM B9 Gemini 2
8014 BV10WWO B9 Gemini 2
8015 BV10WWP B9 Gemini 2
8016 BV10WWR B9 Gemini 2
8017 LX11FHZ B9 Gemini 2
8018 LX11FJE B9 Gemini 2
8019 LX11FJF B9 Gemini 2
8020 LJ61GWU B9 Gemini 2

4048 out in service today on the 25 in Plymouth. Downstairs seating laid out very well with plenty of leg room and 12 forward facing seats on the level

 

[nw1]

Go South Coast are more patchy with including it. Not sure why they ever stopped because the block data is still available via their website data.

How can you get this incidentally? Doesn't seem to be an obvious link.

Sorry, ignore me. Found it on Bluestar: https://www.bluestarbus.co.uk/open-data, was initially looking at GSC.

The block info doesn't seem to be present though, and there seem to be some errors with vehicle allocation. In the routes that I looked at, all journeys appear to be operated by the same vehicle type (single or double), even routes which have a mix of types. For example the 13 and 14 are shown as solid single-deck and the 3 and 4 solid double-deck, even though all four routes have, to a greater or lesser extent, a mix of both.

 

[WibbleWobble]

Company decisions can be baffling sometimes. Commercial staff shouldn't be in their job if they cant timetable properly and work with local teams (doesn't just apply to GoAhead or First, but literally all companies with such a team)


Go South Coast are more patchy with including it. Not sure why they ever stopped because the block data is still available via their website data. Go Cornwall and Plymouth Citybus tend to include it but it can be a little bit patchy sometimes such as the 12.


GSW upload all of their data in blocks of a few weeks/months at a time and upload a full new dataset for each period. Each dataset tends to be hardcoded to end at a certain date which normally corresponds with timetable change dates or school holidays, or more recently Christmas. The datasets they uploaded today have a number of routes hardcoded to end on 21st Feb and so they are already late by a day uploading data for various routes for dates past 21st Feb.

This is going way off topic really but you need to look at the bigger picture.

A large operator is going to have a constant turnover of schedules. They are potentially going to have some, if not all, of: schooldays, school holidays; university terms, university holidays; summer timetable, winter timetable (and maybe something in between). And that's before you have any temporary timetables for diversions. Or late changes because a link doesn't quite work.

As Bus Open Data requires a 42-day look-up, that would mean timetables loaded with either no or incorrect bus working information. So once the schedules are confirmed, which won't be for another few weeks as the schedule has to be compiled, rota'd, checked with the unions, tweaked with feedback, then done, the BODS data has to be re-uploaded with the bus workings. Oh but a late tweak is needed! So the whole lot has to be done again!

For a large operator, that's potentially a full time job just to keep on top of it all, and for something that is not compulsory. I mean, who does having bus workings really benefit? Yes, it shows if a bus is late on a previous journey - but that is probably a false economy really! That late running bus you've just missed as you've ambled to the bus stop or left five minutes later, but suddenly left on time as it was stepped up with another bus (and maybe driver)? That late running bus that has been pulled from service to make up time? That bus which has been pulled off to cover another (lower frequency) service?

It only really works if you're boarding early on in a journey but that's where some intervention is more likely. For anyone boarding anywhere else, they'll only look closer to the time where that step-up is now tracking instead. Otherwise, the main audience for such a tool is the enthusiast fraternity, looking to see what journeys a bus is (hopefully) going to operate.

I'd rather just have the ability to look ahead really. That's what I'm bothered about if I'm heading somewhere new!

 

[markymark2000]

How can you get this incidentally? Doesn't seem to be an obvious link.

I presume you mean the website open data. IF so, add /open-data to the end the URL of most websites by Passenger and you can get it. Or data.discoverpassenger.com shows you all (replying in a general context so as not to go off topic)

I'd rather just have the ability to look ahead really. That's what I'm bothered about if I'm heading somewhere new!

I largely agree with your post. If GoSouthWest didn't include block details, that's fine as it's not mandated data (it's a small shame to not have it included but I agree the benefits are largely enthusiasts and some cases of showing delays on subsequent trips). The fact they regularly fail to comply with look ahead though is where my issue is. Then even if the data is there and on time, it's often got bugs with it and/or missing data (current dataset is missing the Plymouth 20, the new dataset for the 14th Feb is missing the new Cornwall 17). And as I say, they are already a day late on some of the data now because they have hard coded the end dates of 21st Feb on some routes. A day may not be the end of the world but it is persistent non compliance.

 

[Lynford1976]

This is going way off topic really but you need to look at the bigger picture.

A large operator is going to have a constant turnover of schedules. They are potentially going to have some, if not all, of: schooldays, school holidays; university terms, university holidays; summer timetable, winter timetable (and maybe something in between). And that's before you have any temporary timetables for diversions. Or late changes because a link doesn't quite work.

As Bus Open Data requires a 42-day look-up, that would mean timetables loaded with either no or incorrect bus working information. So once the schedules are confirmed, which won't be for another few weeks as the schedule has to be compiled, rota'd, checked with the unions, tweaked with feedback, then done, the BODS data has to be re-uploaded with the bus workings. Oh but a late tweak is needed! So the whole lot has to be done again!

For a large operator, that's potentially a full time job just to keep on top of it all, and for something that is not compulsory. I mean, who does having bus workings really benefit? Yes, it shows if a bus is late on a previous journey - but that is probably a false economy really! That late running bus you've just missed as you've ambled to the bus stop or left five minutes later, but suddenly left on time as it was stepped up with another bus (and maybe driver)? That late running bus that has been pulled from service to make up time? That bus which has been pulled off to cover another (lower frequency) service?

It only really works if you're boarding early on in a journey but that's where some intervention is more likely. For anyone boarding anywhere else, they'll only look closer to the time where that step-up is now tracking instead. Otherwise, the main audience for such a tool is the enthusiast fraternity, looking to see what journeys a bus is (hopefully) going to operate.

I'd rather just have the ability to look ahead really. That's what I'm bothered about if I'm heading somewhere new!

Not only is this a very helpful explanation, but I do agree with the sentiment here!