Go Cornwall Bus

[RELL6L]

New routes mentioned above postponed

Postponement and amendments to new timetables

We are having to postpone or amend the start of some of our new services that were due to come into effect from Sunday 5th Sept

www.gocornwallbus.co.uk

So from Fowey to St Austell there will be a First 24 at 35 minutes past each hour and a TfC 25 at 45 minutes past each hour.......

 

[ChrisC]

I’m visiting Cornwall for a week at the beginning of October and will be relying on public transport to get about. I'm very disappointed that apart from the Ride Cornwall ticket there are still no multi-operator tickets. As there is no 7 day version of the Ride Cornwall Ticket it works out extremely expensive if using it for more than a couple of days.

The question I wanted to ask is would a Ride Cornwall or a Go Cornwall Day Ticket be valid on Travel Cornwall routes such as the 23 from St. Austell to Gorran Haven?

I’m staying in Penzance and to be quite honest I’m now seriously thinking of not bothering going anywhere using Transport for Cornwall buses and just getting a £28 First Kernow 7 Day Ticket.
As I’m over 60 and have a Senior Railcard I will probably also get a 8 Days in 15 Devon and Cornwall Rail Rover which, as it can be also be used to/from Tiverton Parkway as part of my journey down from Nottingham, is very good value.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I’m visiting Cornwall for a week at the beginning of October and will be relying on public transport to about. Very disappointed that apart the Ride Cornwall ticket there are still no multi-operator tickets. As there is no 7 day version of the Ride Cornwall Ticket it works out extremely expensive if using for more than a couple of days.

The question I wanted to ask is would a Ride Cornwall or a Go Cornwall Day Ticket be valid on Travel Cornwall routes such as the 23 from St. Austell to Gorran Haven.

I’m staying in Penzance and to be quite honest I’m now seriously thinking of not bothering going anywhere using Transport for Cornwall buses and just getting a £28 First Kernow 7 Day Ticket.
As I’m over 60 and have a Senior Railcard I will probably also get a 8 Days in 15 Devon and Cornwall Rail Rover which as it can be also be used to/from Tiverton Parkway as part of my journey down from Nottingham is very good value.

Yes - TravelCornwall is part of Transport For Cornwall so a Go or Ride ticket is accepted.

 

[Goldfish62]

I’m visiting Cornwall for a week at the beginning of October and will be relying on public transport to get about. I'm very disappointed that apart from the Ride Cornwall ticket there are still no multi-operator tickets. As there is no 7 day version of the Ride Cornwall Ticket it works out extremely expensive if using it for more than a couple of days.

The question I wanted to ask is would a Ride Cornwall or a Go Cornwall Day Ticket be valid on Travel Cornwall routes such as the 23 from St. Austell to Gorran Haven?

I’m staying in Penzance and to be quite honest I’m now seriously thinking of not bothering going anywhere using Transport for Cornwall buses and just getting a £28 First Kernow 7 Day Ticket.
As I’m over 60 and have a Senior Railcard I will probably also get a 8 Days in 15 Devon and Cornwall Rail Rover which, as it can be also be used to/from Tiverton Parkway as part of my journey down from Nottingham, is very good value.

Contrast this with the Discover day ticket that is valid on all local bus services (except TfL and P&R) throughout, Surrey, West Sussex, East Sussex and Kent and which costs just £9.

The South Downs National Park Authority managed to negotiate this with 30 operators. Cornwall Council seems unable or unwilling to do likewise with just two operators.

 

[richw]

Just seen this pop up on Facebook. Wonder how it may impact bus services subsidies. To me there is plenty of room for saving on some routes, either cuts in frequency or duplications. we’ve seen contributor comments on empty services, that are run hourly that could quite happily without issue be run 2 hourly, or not at all!
The 89 springs to mind immediately as only seeming to carry fresh air whenever I see it.

Councillor in charge of funds warns 'there's no effing money'

David Harris, deputy leader of Cornwall Council, said that it would face difficult decisions when it sets its next budget due to financial constraints

www.cornwalllive.com

The Cornwall councillor responsible for finance has given a frank assessment of how planning for the next budget is progressing by saying “there’s no f***ing money”.

David Harris, who is deputy leader of the Conservative-run Cornwall Council, made his comments in a “report card” issued by the council’s Cabinet reflecting on their first 100 days in charge at County Hall.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just seen this pop up on Facebook. Wonder how it may impact bus services subsidies. To me there is plenty of room for saving on some routes, either cuts in frequency or duplications. we’ve seen contributor comments on empty services, that are run hourly that could quite happily without issue be run 2 hourly, or not at all!
The 89 springs to mind immediately as only seeming to carry fresh air whenever I see it.

Councillor in charge of funds warns 'there's no effing money'

David Harris, deputy leader of Cornwall Council, said that it would face difficult decisions when it sets its next budget due to financial constraints

www.cornwalllive.com

Excuse my cynicism but sounds like a bit of classic politicking in "oh what a mess we've inherited"

I don't disagree that there will be services that can be rationalised; you know my views on various initiatives. I do wonder how much of the funding is hypothecated (i.e. it was awarded on the sole basis of supporting bus services and does not allow for it to replace existing bus funding).

It's a shame that when Cornwall has had the benefit of this funding but that they've frittered so much of it away on hobby horses and daft ideas rather than doing things that can really support bus services and modal shift.

 

[Goldfish62]

Just seen this pop up on Facebook. Wonder how it may impact bus services subsidies. To me there is plenty of room for saving on some routes, either cuts in frequency or duplications. we’ve seen contributor comments on empty services, that are run hourly that could quite happily without issue be run 2 hourly, or not at all!
The 89 springs to mind immediately as only seeming to carry fresh air whenever I see it.

The problem with that sort of service reduction is that a two-hourly service is far less attractive than an hourly service so would attract less passengers - just the start of a downward spiral that inevitably concludes with no service at all.

Due to Covid and the mess the council made by de-integrating the network it hasn't really been given a chance yet. Get those two issues sorted out and then if after that there's still no growth in use then that's the time to consider rationalisation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2021 ==

Excuse my cynicism but sounds like a bit of classic politicking in "oh what a mess we've inherited"

And all we've had from the new cabinet member for transport so far is that he wants to remove all traffic calming. Not a word about public transport. Not exactly encouraging.

 

[carlberry]

Just seen this pop up on Facebook. Wonder how it may impact bus services subsidies. To me there is plenty of room for saving on some routes, either cuts in frequency or duplications. we’ve seen contributor comments on empty services, that are run hourly that could quite happily without issue be run 2 hourly, or not at all!
The 89 springs to mind immediately as only seeming to carry fresh air whenever I see it.

Councillor in charge of funds warns 'there's no effing money'

David Harris, deputy leader of Cornwall Council, said that it would face difficult decisions when it sets its next budget due to financial constraints

www.cornwalllive.com

I thought the funding for the bus services was fixed and came from central government which is why it was a long term contract?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I thought the funding for the bus services was fixed and came from central government which is why it was a long term contract?

That's what I was suggesting - that it's hypothecated (which is government wording for ringfenced)?

Still think it's being wasted in many instances

 

[Stan Drews]

Perhaps it’s all been a ploy by the Government to make a complete and utter mess of things in this ‘experiment’ in Cornwall, that the idea of significant funding never sees the light of day elsewhere!

 

[On the Buses]

That's what I was suggesting - that it's hypothecated (which is government wording for ringfenced)?

Still think it's being wasted in many instances

Do you mean the pre Covid money?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Do you mean the pre Covid money?

The funding that was given to underpin the new council contracts for improvements like the hourly service to St Mawes, services to Lostwithiel or the 176 across Bodmin Moor.

 

[On the Buses]

The funding that was given to underpin the new council contracts for improvements like the hourly service to St Mawes, services to Lostwithiel or the 176 across Bodmin Moor.

Purely internal

 

[Ian10]

Purely internal

There seems to be some confusion over the source of funding. The £12m a year to pay for mostly empty buses has come from Cornwall Council. The Government money was for a low fare project which has yet to be introduced. On the Buses is correct.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Purely internal

Apologies - I was under the misapprehension that it was part of the funding package for devolution. Thanks for putting me right.

If it is from internal funding and they have no fricking money, it makes the spending on flights of fancy even more baffling.

 

[On the Buses]

The funding was capital

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The funding was capital

Ah right - capex like bus shelters, revamp of Penzance bus stn, the e200s 44955 etc, rather than revenue?

 

[On the Buses]

Ah right - capex like bus shelters, revamp of Penzance bus stn, the e200s 44955 etc, rather than revenue?

Yes

 

[Goldfish62]

And before people get too carried away with the "waste of money" and "too many buses" rhetoric let's not forget that £12m in annual subsidy represents just 0.62% of Cornwall Council's annual budget.

My objection is not to the council's willingness to increase spending on supported bus services - I applaud that - but the way it's been implemented. Those who want cuts to the network should be careful what they wish for.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

And before people get too carried away with the "waste of money" and "too many buses" rhetoric let's not forget that £12m in annual subsidy represents just 0.62% of Cornwall Council's annual budget.

My objection is not to the council's willingness to increase spending on supported bus services - I applaud that - but the way it's been implemented. Those who want cuts to the network should be careful what they wish for.

I think we're on the same page in that respect. We want to see the support and investment and some of the initiatives do make some sense.

I just struggle to see the justification behind stuff like the 176 when the Tinner has no Sunday evening service, and no evening T2 to St Ives. Even the 88, which I can see the logic behind, only runs two hourly whilst the Roseland routes have had quite the uplift.

 

[Goldfish62]

I think we're on the same page in that respect. We want to see the support and investment and some of the initiatives do make some sense.

I just struggle to see the justification behind stuff like the 176 when the Tinner has no Sunday evening service, and no evening T2 to St Ives. Even the 88, which I can see the logic behind, only runs two hourly whilst the Roseland routes have had quite the uplift.

Yes, agreed that the network could do with some tweaking certainly. Definitely agree about the Tinner. The evening service is actually worse now than before due to the split at Camborne.

There is indeed some good stuff in there. The 5 and 16 going to regular hourly services was a no-brainer and it seems the rerouting of the 5 along Newlyn Coombe has been quite well received. What doesn't make so much sense is why Paul and Sheffield deserve significantly later last buses than St Ives and Mousehole!

Assuming the council is committed to the same level of funding throughout the eight years (and that's a big assumption) the crunch could still come if First South West (FSW) decides to deregister some services. Things could get tough next year after the Bus Recovery Grant (BRG) expires and it's not inconceivable that some winter evening and Sunday services could be deregistered. The council would then have a number of options:
1. Don't replace them
2. Tender them out with additional funding.
3. As 2, but using existing budget by cutting some current supported services.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, agreed that the network could do with some tweaking certainly. Definitely agree about the Tinner. The evening service is actually worse now than before due to the split at Camborne.

There is indeed some good stuff in there. The 5 and 16 going to regular hourly services was a no-brainer and it seems the rerouting of the 5 along Newlyn Coombe has been quite well received. What doesn't make so much sense is why Paul and Sheffield deserve significantly later last buses than St Ives and Mousehole!

Assuming the council is committed to the same level of funding throughout the eight years (and that's a big assumption) the crunch could still come if FSW decides to deregister some services. Things could get tough next year after the Bus Recovery Grant (BRG) expires and it's not inconceivable that some winter evening and Sunday services could be deregistered. The council would then have a number of options:
1. Don't replace them
2. Tender them out with additional funding.
3. As 2, but using existing budget by cutting some current supported services.

The one thing that is quite extraordinary is the provision of Sunday evening services by First Kernow in comparison to a couple of years ago....and the lack of similar from Transport for Cornwall. The cached version of the 2019 timetable shows the only Sunday evening service was the Falmouth to Uni shuttle.

 

[Goldfish62]

The one thing that is quite extraordinary is the provision of Sunday evening services by First Kernow in comparison to a couple of years ago....and the lack of similar from TfC. The cached version of the 2019 timetable shows the only Sunday evening service was the Falmouth to Uni shuttle.

Yes, it was c2013 from memory that the council had one of its regular budgetary crises (what local authority doesn't?) and pulled support for all winter Sunday evening services. This resulted in the most unsatisfactory situation of no evening services over the Easter weekend except the Saturday.

As far as I'm aware most if not all winter Sunday daytime services were supported until First South West (FSW) registered several commercially last year.

It's a pity that Traveline timetables aren't archived publicly because from memory the initial Go Cornwall Bus (GCB) registrations based on the contract awards did include a number of Sunday and evening services that FSW are now operating commercially.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, it was c2013 from memory that the council had one of its regular budgetary crises (what local authority doesn't?) and pulled support for all winter Sunday evening services. This resulted in the most unsatisfactory situation of no evening services over the Easter weekend except the Saturday.

As far as I'm aware most of not all winter Sunday daytime services were supported, until FSW registered several commercially last year.

It's a pity that Traveline timetables aren't archived publicly because from memory the initial GCB registrations based on the contract awards did include a number of Sunday and evening services that FSW are now operating commercially.

I seem to think it was the M6/Mous, the 17 and the Tinner routes in the main that were Go Cornwall Bus (GCB) and were registered commercially? The lack of a Sunday evening Tinner seems odd when you have other routes having headways doubled, being introduced from scratch etc.

 

[Goldfish62]

I seem to think it was the M6/Mous, the 17 and the Tinner routes in the main that were GCB and were registered commercially? The lack of a Sunday evening Tinner seems odd when you have other routes having headways doubled, being introduced from scratch etc.

Also the U4 evening and the A1/LEC winter Sundays. It's basically left GoCornwall's Penzance depot with no Sunday work.

Odd as you say about the lack of Sunday evening service on the T1 (and T2) especially as train services aren't that great then either.

 

[richw]

Odd as you say about the lack of Sunday evening service on the T1 (and T2) especially as train services aren't that great then either.

I’m guessing there is not a lot of demand, if any, in Cornwall for Sunday evening travel. I spent my later teenage years working in McDonald’s and then did a bit of bar work after that. Sunday evenings were always dead quiet after about 1830 at both establishments. Cornwall is still old fashioned in that respect that people don’t go out on Sunday evenings.

 

[GBM]

There was always half a bus load leaving St Ives on the last run, even on a Sunday night. It was mostly empty by St Erth and occasionally there were a few for passengers for Penzance, with one or two joining at Longrock for Penzance.
The last run to Mousehole was always busy, with most alighting before or by Newlyn. There were a few stragglers for Mousehole and a few more for Gwavas (the run was from Mousehole, Paul, Sheffield, Gwavas and back to Penzance). St Just was always far quieter.
The last run to Helston was always crammed, with most alighting at Porthleven. When First raised the fares considerably, numbers went down to a handful.
The last Lands End bus was timed to arrive at Porthcurno just after the evening show finished. It used to spend a long time trying to struggle down to Porthcurno with all the exiting cars. They rarely carried anyone on that route.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I’m guessing not a lot of demand if any in Cornwall for Sunday evenings. I spent my later teenage years working in McDonald’s and then a bit of bar work after that and Sunday evenings were always dead quiet after about 1830 at both establishments. Cornwall is still old fashioned in that respect that people don’t go out on Sunday evenings.

Yet the U1/U2 now run to Truro and Druth and the Mous and 17 now have them.

Those routes may have specific reasons why they are justified but it’s curious that they do and the Tinner doesn’t but that may be entirely appropriate

 

[Goldfish62]

I’m guessing not a lot of demand if any in Cornwall for Sunday evenings. I spent my later teenage years working in McDonald’s and then a bit of bar work after that and Sunday evenings were always dead quiet after about 1830 at both establishments. Cornwall is still old fashioned in that respect that people don’t go out on Sunday evenings.

Penzance town centre gives the impression of shutting down for the day around 16.00 even during weekdays!

 

[Bungle158]

Speaking as a user rather than an enthusiast, Go Cornwall appear to have made a right pig's ear of the timetable changes, at least on the 25. 6 days in, bus stops are showing out of date timetables, parts of their own site are not showing updated times, passengers are confused and a there is a pretty much "don't care" attitude from so-called customer services. It's rather poor, l feel. Meanwhile the drivers, as ever, are first class.