GNER Class 373 Sets

[whhistle]

Can someone explain how GNER came to have some of these sets?

Were they full length Eurostar sets?
Why did they have them?
Why did they hand them back?
Was the internal layout the same?

Thanks

 

[Barrett M95]

Can someone explain how GNER came to have some of these sets?

Were they full length Eurostar sets?
Why did they have them?
Why did they hand them back?
Was the internal layout the same?

Thanks

They were North of London (class 373/2) sets. 2 power cars and 14 trailers. 3 capital 373/1 sets have 18 trailers.
GNER got them when their 91s were being overhauled to cover for the missing set availability. They gave them back because the contract ran out and by then all 91s were back in service. The NoL sets are now running domestic SNCF services in France.

Internal layout was the same as a 3 capitals set apart from the missing trailers of course. Power cars had some subtle differences but has same max power output and with 4 trailers less were a little quicker on acceleration.

 

[sprinterguy]

GNER leased three of the North of London Eurostar sets on a daily basis out of a pool of five complete trains, three of which (six half-sets; 3301-3306) were painted/vinyled in GNERs' blue/red livery. The North of London Eurostar sets are shorter than their Three Capitals counterparts, each complete train having fourteen trailers instead of eighteen. They had lain out of use since the idea of Regional Eurostars operating to the continent from the likes of Manchester and Glasgow had been dropped in the stages of development.

GNER hired the sets to provide additional electric stock to cover for the class 91 refurbishment programme, and they ceased operating for GNER at the end of 2005, when GNER gained additional HST sets.

 

[whhistle]

That's a shame as they look pretty good on UK soil.

Thanks

 

[Schnellzug]

They were North of London (class 373/2) sets. 2 power cars and 14 trailers. 3 capital 373/1 sets have 18 trailers.
GNER got them when their 91s were being overhauled to cover for the missing set availability. They gave them back because the contract ran out and by then all 91s were back in service. The NoL sets are now running domestic SNCF services in France.

Internal layout was the same as a 3 capitals set apart from the missing trailers of course. Power cars had some subtle differences but has same max power output and with 4 trailers less were a little quicker on acceleration.

Although I think that because of the cheapness of the power supply, they were limited to 110 mph on the ECML, I believe.

 

[HSTEd]

I thought the traction supply couldn't handle them above York which was why they always terminated there.

 

[lincolnshire]

It was also something to do with the pressure on the pantograph onto the contact wire why they wasn,t allowed past York.
It was all down to the fact that the OHL on the east coast was put in as chaeap as possible as it was self funded by the British Railways Board within the operating money supplied by the goverment. It was down to the old problem that the distances between the OHL structures was at the maximum allowable to save money.
Besides the waste of money for the trains as described in above posts, what about the night star trains that was made too all a taxpayers expense. So if the ex GNER sets that was hired are now running for SNCF did the goverment get paid for them, as they all belonged to them ( GNER hired them from the goverment I understood).
Also what about all the cost of moving station platfoms edges back at various stations on the route to get the required clearances, who paid for that to be done?
All the things people either didn,t know or carefully forget about, all funded by the tax payer.

 

[Railguy220]

Would be nice if a NoL sets could cover for the 91's again since they are getting overhauled again instead of a class 90.

 

[HSTEd]

Oh and they probably wouldnt be able to run up there now during peak times due to the fact that the traction system south of Stevenage is apparently pushed rather close to its limit these days, which would mean you would have to put the sets on the first trips north (to Leeds?) to get them out of London before rush hour.

 

[Barrett M95]

Class 373/2's were permitted 125mph running eventually on ECML between Grantham and Woolmer Green. They were so overpowered for the job that they could (and did often) keep to timetable with only one power car operating. They could out-accelerate a 91 powered set up Stoke bank ON ONE POWER CAR. Having both working often amused drivers with the performance to hand.

Their major limitation north of York on ECML was the King Edward VII bridge at Newcastle. The articulation configuration and distance between bogies meant that the 373 overthrow went out of gauge at the southern end of the bridge.

Pantographs... I have many stories here, but they are equipped with a Brecknell Willis HSP as fitted to class 91's, Pendolinos, etc... it has some subtle differences (ET height limit stop for one), but is essentially the same design. However on a 373, this is the DC (3kV usually) pantograph. The AC unit is a Faiveley GPU in common with all TGV power cars. The GPU unit has a slightly different characteristic and stiffness than a BW pan. NR were concerned that the 373's were more prone to damaging OLE than BW equipped trains - one of the reasons of the initial 110mph limit. Despite there being a few notable incidents where ADD failed, there was no evidence to suggest the 373's were more likely to damage the catenary than a 91. The "pressure" someone refers to above is no issue - they were set to the same nominal contact force as other pans on the same route: 90N.

They have had their short term lease renewed by SNCF recently so very little chance of a return to ECML in the next few years.

 

[route:oxford]

Outdated post deleted.

 

[HSTEd]

Are they out of guage over the other bridge as well or it simply not possible to force a train to go that way around the loop and cross the High Level bridge instead? Im not really sure how it works at Newcastle.

 

[dubscottie]

I think everything is out of gauge at the south end of the King Edward Bridge in Newcastle if it goes any faster than walking pace!

I remember seeing the 37 hauled gauging run going through Edinburgh many years ago, so being too big isn't the issue.

A post further up 20N was quoted as pantograph pressure.. In the latest (and as usual not proof read, full of errors and some of it does not ever make sense even when read 3 or 4 times) copy of Modern Locomotives Illustrated, 20Lb (pounds) of pressure was the norm. What is the standard now?

 

[Barrett M95]

I quoted (a typo) of 70N not 20N, when it should have been 90N - this is the standard static uplift FORCE (not pressure) for BW high speed pantographs and is the same as a Faiveley GPU is set to on a 373/2. I'm not a reader of the publication you refer to so I can't comment on it's usual accuracy, but 20lbf does equate to around 90N (88 or so), so that's close enough to reality when you include the tolerances allowed.

The gauging very much WAS an issue - trust me - I was involved in that project. Specifically the problem was that if two 373's passed on the curve to the south of the King Edward bridge with one set suffering from air-bag failure which affects the kinematic gauging - there would be a problem. It could have been resolved with fairly "minor" realignment of the track (you wouldn't have to rebuild the bridge or anything like that), but in the end the pressure was off as the services were cancelled.

 

[starrymarkb]

IIRC there were also restrictions heading out of kings cross because of the power drawn...

 

[Welshman]

I remember that was the case during the morning peak when they were first introduced, and the reason why the first northbound service started at Peterborough. Later, the power supplies were upgraded.

They could not be used on services to Newcastle for reasons already outlined, so until the rebuilding work at Leeds was completed they were initially restricted to KX-York off peak services.

They were later switched to the Leeds service and gained the name "The White Rose" services.

The 1205 Leeds-KX was one service they worked, and I remember catching this at Grantham on several occasions. As standard class was at the rear of the usual Cl.91 Mk 4 sets, it was a novelty to walk the opposite way right up to the empty south end of platform 1 at Grantham and be assured of the choice of several empty seats in the leading coach, provided you boarded in coach 2 and walked through, as the front and rear coaches were off the platform.

As has been said, they had greater acceleration, and were very comfortable sets to travel in. A pity they are not available for re-hire during the next round of Cl.91 overhauls.

 

[HSTEd]

I remember that I used to try and get on a White Rose if I could simply because youd always be guaranteed a table seat due to teh shear length of the things and the fact they were often run off peak. Although walking that far at Grantham to reach the footbridge when going north always used to annoy me.

 

[whhistle]

Were GNER drivers cleared/trained to work on these Classes then or did they get some drivers from Eurostar?

 

[shedman]

Yeah, it was GNERs drivers and guards that worked the train, serveral drivers I know still speak highly of the sets