GN peak services from London

[RacsoMoquette]

Just out of curiosity; could Great Northern operate peak services to Letchworth or Baldock from London Moorgate? As it would increase the utilisation Class 717s.

Why currently trains from London Moorgate only terminate at Stevenage or Welwyn Garden City?

In WAGN and FCC days Class 313s operated to Letchworth, and after watching my DVD West Anglia & Great Northern I saw many occasions of said service.

 

[Magdalia]

Just out of curiosity; could Great Northern operate peak services to Letchworth or Baldock from London Moorgate? As it would increase the utilisation Class 717s. Why currently trains from London Moorgate only terminate at Stevenage or Welwyn Garden City? in WAGN and FCC days Class 313s operated to Letchworth and after watching my DVD West Anglia & Great Northern I saw many occasions of said service.

Welwyn Garden City is London side of the 2 track section over Digswell Viaduct, which is already congested.

Through running from the Hertford line beyond Stevenage ended because the paths between Langley Junction and Hitchin were needed for other trains. A new line from Langley Junction and a new platform at Stevenage were built so that Hertford loop trains could terminate at Stevenage without encroaching on the ECML.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Welwyn Garden City is London side of the 2 track section over Digswell Viaduct, which is already congested.

Through running from the Hertford line beyond Stevenage ended because the paths between Langley Junction and Hitchin were needed for other trains. A new line from Langley Junction and a new platform at Stevenage were built so that Hertford loop trains could terminate at Stevenage without encroaching on the ECML.

Surely the platform was built to avoid a Stevenage terminator occupying P4 for a through train there is less of an issue. You also have the flyover at Hitchin now.

 

[Magdalia]

Surely the platform was built to avoid a Stevenage terminator occupying P4 for a through train there is less of an issue. You also have the flyover at Hitchin now.

Reversing in platform 4 at Stevenage was part of the problem but the key factor was more trains, especially the Brighton-Cambridge services introduced in 2018. Until the new line from Langley Junction and platform 5 at Stevenage were completed Hertford loop trains had to terminate at Watton at Stone for a bus to Stevenage, because there was no paths for them to run through to Hitchin, or to terminate in platform 4 at Stevenage.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Reversing in platform 4 at Stevenage was part of the problem but the key factor was more trains, especially the Brighton-Cambridge services introduced in 2018. Until the new line from Langley Junction and platform 5 at Stevenage were completed Hertford loop trains had to terminate at Watton at Stone for a bus to Stevenage, because there was no paths for them to run through to Hitchin, or to terminate in platform 4 at Stevenage.

P4 only sees no more than 6 call/hour between 1600-1900 so plenty of capacity to absorb another stopper but surely it will always be the two track section that is the critical constrain although whether with the ETCS overlay they will be able to squeeze anymore out of it i don't know.

 

[Royston Vasey]

P4 only sees no more than 6 call/hour between 1600-1900 so plenty of capacity to absorb another stopper but surely it will always be the two track section that is the critical constrain although whether with the ETCS overlay they will be able to squeeze anymore out of it i don't know.

And Moorgate-Stevenage-Letchworth via Hertford North would be so painfully slow everyone would just use a cross platform connection at Finsbury Park onto a faster service anyway.

There's no demand for this. The crayons are strong on this thread at the moment.

 

[bramling]

P4 only sees no more than 6 call/hour between 1600-1900 so plenty of capacity to absorb another stopper but surely it will always be the two track section that is the critical constrain although whether with the ETCS overlay they will be able to squeeze anymore out of it i don't know.

There have been timetables since 2018 where there have been a fair few services through platform 4.

At the maximum I can think of
2tph Cambridge-Brighton
2tph Horsham-Peterborough
2tph KX-Cambridge
2tph KX-Peterborough
2tph KX-Baldock (non-stop).

10tph is a fair number of services so I can see that more is probably not a great idea, especially if they’re fairly low value which I think the Hertford service would be.

However if the OP is thinking of reintroducing the Baldock fast services (either from Moorgate or King’s Cross) as a way of utilising the 717s then I can’t see why it isn’t viable. The only snag is that 6-car trains through Digswell isn’t a particularly efficient use of scarce paths. There’s certainly spare 717s at present, and spare paths into Moorgate no doubt as well, though whether this will be the case into the future is another matter.

 

[A0]

Just out of curiosity; could Great Northern operate peak services to Letchworth or Baldock from London Moorgate? As it would increase the utilisation Class 717s. Why currently trains from London Moorgate only terminate at Stevenage or Welwyn Garden City? in WAGN and FCC days Class 313s operated to Letchworth and after watching my DVD West Anglia & Great Northern I saw many occasions of said service.

There's a bit of history as to why there was a Letchworth - Moorgate service.

At electrification in 1976 the services were Hertford or Welwyn Gdn City to Moorgate.

The Hertford - Stevenage link (bearing in mind Watton at Stone station hadn't reopened at that time) was covered by a Hertford - Stevenage - Huntingdon DMU.

In around 1980 it was changed so that 1 tph from Moorgate was extended from Hertford to Stevenage, however reversing a train at Stevenage wasn't practical, hence the extension to Letchworth. At the same time the Huntingdon DMU service was curtailed to Hitchin.

As the ECML got busier, running Moorgate services beyond Stevenage wasn't a good use of capacity, however until changes were made at Stevenage to allow them to terminate there without causing capacity issues, they had to run somewhere and Letchworth was the best place to reverse a train.

 

[HST43257]

There have been timetables since 2018 where there have been a fair few services through platform 4.

At the maximum I can think of
2tph Cambridge-Brighton
2tph Horsham-Peterborough
2tph KX-Cambridge
2tph KX-Peterborough
2tph KX-Baldock (non-stop).

10tph is a fair number of services so I can see that more is probably not a great idea, especially if they’re fairly low value which I think the Hertford service would be.

However if the OP is thinking of reintroducing the Baldock fast services (either from Moorgate or King’s Cross) as a way of utilising the 717s then I can’t see why it isn’t viable. The only snag is that 6-car trains through Digswell isn’t a particularly efficient use of scarce paths. There’s certainly spare 717s at present, and spare paths into Moorgate no doubt as well, though whether this will be the case into the future is another matter.

If baldocks are ever introduced again, please please don’t call them at Welwyn North (or any other station on the fasts).

 

[bramling]

If baldocks are ever introduced again, please please don’t call them at Welwyn North (or any other station on the fasts).

Have to say I thought the 2018 model of 4tph at Welwyn North in the peaks was rather too generous.

Knebworth, Hitchin, Letchworth and Baldock was ideal for those services, although the terminating arrangements at Baldock left something to be desired.

But Welwyn North has always seemed to get a rather good deal for some reason, considering the difficulty involved in serving it.

 

[D365]

… although whether with the ETCS overlay they will be able to squeeze anymore out of it i don't know.

I would say no. The only thing that ETCS could do is enable smaller block sections once lineside signalling is removed.

 

[Bald Rick]

P4 only sees no more than 6 call/hour between 1600-1900 so plenty of capacity to absorb another stopper but surely it will always be the two track section that is the critical constrain although whether with the ETCS overlay they will be able to squeeze anymore out of it i don't know.

The smaller block sections are in and commissioned (on ETCS), but I’m fairly sure it won‘t release more paths.