GN Class 717

[Aictos]

You clearly have not travelled on a 717. The CIS doesn’t work on any of the journeys I have used.

Personally i don’t care about wi-fi and the majority of people can’t use the power points as they are standing. Seat back tables would be more useful in my opinion. Never seen anyone use the plugs.

Agree the air conditioning is an improvement.

No idea how you can comment on 4 when you don’t travel on the route. People are still getting left behind. In fact this never happened on the Gordon Hill - Moorgate trains. Maybe people looking out the new trains. But people still get left behind.

Reliable? We will see. The 700s still can’t match the 313s but they are getting closer.

Course you ignore the fact that the Class 313s never had a working CIS system and all announcements were depending on the driver if they made them or not.

I've not yet had the chance to use the Class 717 but that's not to say they're not a improvement on the Class 313s which rightly so are finally being displaced to the knackers yard - I note that you haven't bothered to comment on continued use of the Class 313s though...

Wifi is a must on all services those days, the power plugs are a plus point granted as you wouldn't expect them on Metro stock but as the Class 707 has them, it made commercial sense to fit them to the Class 717s as well.

I used to commute on the line for a number of years so DO know how busy it can be, least with the wider and more spacious interiors it should easier to board then it used to with the Class 313s.

You state people still being left behind, maybe this is because people still bunch up near the doors when there's space further down inside the train? People's habits will change but it will take time, as it stands there shouldn't be anyone left behind on platforms at stations those new trains call at.

 

[Fred26]

I've been on several 717s since they came in, including on the NCL. Every train I've been on has CIS/PA working. I've yet to be on one that hasn't.

My complaints with the 717s is the legroom, and the lack of toilets.
Overall they are a million miles away from the 313s and a much better unit. I can't even see how anyone can prefer a train that is so old that; internal panels are falling off, water leaks through the doors in rain, water drips through the ceiling in places, a lot of seats are broken, the heating is knackered, there's no standing room, no CIS, poor PA on most units, no air-conditioning, and they're non-walkthrough. There's only so much patching up that can be done. They were good units in their day, and must have been a revelation compared to the previous generation, but they should have been retired 10 years ago.

 

[Failed Unit]

I've been on several 717s since they came in, including on the NCL. Every train I've been on has CIS/PA working. I've yet to be on one that hasn't.

My complaints with the 717s is the legroom, and the lack of toilets.
Overall they are a million miles away from the 313s and a much better unit. I can't even see how anyone can prefer a train that is so old that; internal panels are falling off, water leaks through the doors in rain, water drips through the ceiling in places, a lot of seats are broken, the heating is knackered, there's no standing room, no CIS, poor PA on most units, no air-conditioning, and they're non-walkthrough. There's only so much patching up that can be done. They were good units in their day, and must have been a revelation compared to the previous generation, but they should have been retired 10 years ago.

I must be unlucky about the CIS. But 717005 & 006 are the 2 I have used last week. Neither had working CIS. So I don’t know if the loading level for example exists on these trains. Saying that the 700s display. “Not in service” a lot frequently.

I am tending to avoid 717 operated services at the moment because of the overcrowding. Maybe when we get more in service that will improve as I think people are seeking them out.

Agree the legroom is dreadful. Something known about on the 700s but ignored.

 

[jon0844]

I've used the power socket on one 717 and have travelled on 717006 with working PIS. I can't recall seeing the passenger loading info (didn't keep looking at the screen) and I've forgotten to try the Wi-Fi thus far.

I can't imagine many people avoiding a 717 to stick with a 313. I get those who have a choice favouring a 365 or 387 over a 700, but a 313 with vandalised interior, water leaks and randomly heated coaches, and likely operating with a motor locked out so unable to get over 55 or 60mph..? Surely nobody hates the new trains that much?

 

[Failed Unit]

I've used the power socket on one 717 and have travelled on 717006 with working PIS. I can't recall seeing the passenger loading info (didn't keep looking at the screen) and I've forgotten to try the Wi-Fi thus far.

I can't imagine many people avoiding a 717 to stick with a 313. I get those who have a choice favouring a 365 or 387 over a 700, but a 313 with vandalised interior, water leaks and randomly heated coaches, and likely operating with a motor locked out so unable to get over 55 or 60mph..? Surely nobody hates the new trains that much?

Depends what you are looking for. If you want a seat then you have a better chance on a 313 as you have more of them.

But definitely not seen a working CIS - Maybe drivers not loading them but blank on the ones I have used. (4 trips)

My phone has perfectly good 4G so never bother using it on trains.

As I said maybe the overcrowding will improve but it was never a problem on the 0904 Finsbury Park - Moorgate before the 717s appeared.

Don’t get me wrong if a 717 appears I will get in it. (If I can). Just like i would if a 313 appears. But I plan my journeys to avoid the 717s after my trips on Monday and Tuesday.

Perhaps the overcrowding will also improve once the 2x additional Gordon Hill - Moorgate services are put in the timetable as per consultation timetable. But this is GTR. The won’t say if / when this will happen.

 

[Fred26]

When are the addition 2tph GDH-MOG supposed to be? Are there reverse services?

 

[Failed Unit]

I

When are the addition 2tph GDH-MOG supposed to be? Are there reverse services?

don’t remember exactly. I should have downloaded the timetable.

I think they make 4 workings in the peak direction.

Once they are in place it will enable all stations to get their old frequencies back. For example the x24 WGC - Moorgate service would stop again at Hadley Wood, Oakliegh Park and New Southgate but cease stopping at Hornsey and Harringey. Some of the ex- Hertford services would have stops removed with the new Gordon Hill services picking up the balance.

I understand they need 2 extra units for this, which is why they were not introduced in May.

The 0732 will depart later and omit Hadley Wood.

Same on the half hourly service. It will give the local services a more standard pattern. If I do have the document stored somewhere I will post it.

 

[jon0844]

Depends what you are looking for. If you want a seat then you have a better chance on a 313 as you have more of them.

That is true, but for someone that travels from WGC (is that still the case?) then you can't have any issue getting a seat to London.

Coming back, my way of getting a seat if I really wanted one (when I worked at Old Street) was to get a train from Old Street to Moorgate and stay on it. I knew which service became a WGC train.

At Finsbury Park, I can see the issue in the peak.

Off peak, given there are now 4tph instead of 2tph, there will now be an abundance of seats compared to pre May 2018.

 

[Failed Unit]

That is true, but for someone that travels from WGC (is that still the case?) then you can't have any issue getting a seat to London.

Coming back, my way of getting a seat if I really wanted one (when I worked at Old Street) was to get a train from Old Street to Moorgate and stay on it. I knew which service became a WGC train.

At Finsbury Park, I can see the issue in the peak.

Off peak, given there are now 4tph instead of 2tph, there will now be an abundance of seats compared to pre May 2018.

Most days of the week I use WGC. But a couple of days per week I use Welwyn North and do the change at Finsbury Park or walk from KX depending on my mood on the day. To be honest the walk is preferable.

 

[Bald Rick]

I have yet to go on a ScotRail 385. I understand they have purchased a higher quality padding for the seats thier compared to what GTR have.

I’ve been on the 385s, and I found the seats to be the same. Indeed I thought first class in a 385 was worse than first in a 700.

 

[jon0844]

Most days of the week I use WGC. But a couple of days per week I use Welwyn North and do the change at Finsbury Park or walk from KX depending on my mood on the day. To be honest the walk is preferable.

I enjoy walking too, when the weather is right!

 

[Aictos]

I've been on several 717s since they came in, including on the NCL. Every train I've been on has CIS/PA working. I've yet to be on one that hasn't.

My complaints with the 717s is the legroom, and the lack of toilets.
Overall they are a million miles away from the 313s and a much better unit. I can't even see how anyone can prefer a train that is so old that; internal panels are falling off, water leaks through the doors in rain, water drips through the ceiling in places, a lot of seats are broken, the heating is knackered, there's no standing room, no CIS, poor PA on most units, no air-conditioning, and they're non-walkthrough. There's only so much patching up that can be done. They were good units in their day, and must have been a revelation compared to the previous generation, but they should have been retired 10 years ago.

Pretty much, a lot of those issues were the norm even 10 years ago!

 

[Bikeman78]

No, it was a seat I’d never experienced before. Possibly made in Hades.

I think the Scottish 156s are getting the same seats. Not seen any yet personally.

 

[Bikeman78]

I've been on several 717s since they came in, including on the NCL. Every train I've been on has CIS/PA working. I've yet to be on one that hasn't.

My complaints with the 717s is the legroom, and the lack of toilets.
Overall they are a million miles away from the 313s and a much better unit. I can't even see how anyone can prefer a train that is so old that; internal panels are falling off, water leaks through the doors in rain, water drips through the ceiling in places, a lot of seats are broken, the heating is knackered, there's no standing room, no CIS, poor PA on most units, no air-conditioning, and they're non-walkthrough. There's only so much patching up that can be done. They were good units in their day, and must have been a revelation compared to the previous generation, but they should have been retired 10 years ago.

How useful will the walk through gangway actually be? If the train is packed, you're not going anywhere. I don't see many people walking very far on S stock.

 

[Arkady]

Seems the NCL is closed today, any idea why?

 

[Failed Unit]

Seems the NCL is closed today, any idea why?

Just engineering work. Notices not more specific about what.

 

[Bald Rick]

How useful will the walk through gangway actually be? If the train is packed, you're not going anywhere. I don't see many people walking very far on S stock.

Try Wimbledon on the district line!

 

[ijmad]

Are there going to be four units in regular service from tomorrow?

 

[daniel1234321]

Are there going to be four units in regular service from tomorrow?

No will still be 2 on HE51 and HE53 I think, I think it's going to be 2 more every 2 weeks.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

No issues with the CIS (or overcrowding) on my first 717 journey last Friday. It was only because I saw, in real-time, that the 22:00 Moorgate-WGC was delayed that I caught it at Highbury & Islington instead of my usual train, which calls there at 22:28.
I concur with comments about the ride quality; the Drayton Park to Finsbury Park section was noticeably rougher on a 717. All in, though, a much more pleasant journey.
Good WiFi, clean and bright, and I recharged my phone while browsing this forum. (A person in the aisle seat opposite looked surprised when I reached down to plug in the charger. Despite the copious signs, infrequent travellers may not have realised they are lurking there?)

 

[Fred26]

How useful will the walk through gangway actually be? If the train is packed, you're not going anywhere. I don't see many people walking very far on S stock.

While passengers may not be able to walk through when the trains are busy, having each carriage connected like that does create much more standing room.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

On the S stock, I often see people coming up from the Bakerloo or Jubilee lines and boarding a Metropolitan service at Baker Street, walk through the train. I do it myself so I’m at the optimum set of doors on arrival at Kings Cross St Pancras. Probably not feasible in peak-hours, though

 

[Class315]

No will still be 2 on HE51 and HE53 I think, I think it's going to be 2 more every 2 weeks.

Having a discussion last week with my LOM, the plan might be revised in the short term with the next introduction being a single 717 vice two but that currently remains to be seen. I’ve heard of a possible carriage working they wish to change next but again I won’t speak on that any further in case plans change.

 

[choochoochoo]

View attachment 60927 View attachment 60928
No issues with the CIS (or overcrowding) on my first 717 journey last Friday. It was only because I saw, in real-time, that the 22:00 Moorgate-WGC was delayed that I caught it at Highbury & Islington instead of my usual train, which calls there at 22:28.
I concur with comments about the ride quality; the Drayton Park to Finsbury Park section was noticeably rougher on a 717. All in, though, a much more pleasant journey.
Good WiFi, clean and bright, and I recharged my phone while browsing this forum. (A person in the aisle seat opposite looked surprised when I reached down to plug in the charger. Despite the copious signs, infrequent travellers may not have realised they are lurking there?)

arrrrgggghhhh - Feet on the seat !! Why do people do that ?

 

[choochoochoo]

Having a discussion last week with my LOM, the plan might be revised in the short term with the next introduction being a single 717 vice two but that currently remains to be seen. I’ve heard of a possible carriage working they wish to change next but again I won’t speak on that any further in case plans change.

Maybe a limiting factor to their introduction is the availability of suitable signal sighters ?

 

[Class315]

Maybe a limiting factor to their introduction is the availability of suitable signal sighters ?

It’s been covered in the interim with a seperate roster commencing from this week, where the T&C & CDM’s will re-commence their regular drivers and other competent figures will take their places until the Middle of May, when it’s alleged NR will resite the signals & the interim competent figures are re-allocated to their intended duties.

 

[choochoochoo]

It’s been covered in the interim with a seperate roster commencing from this week, where the T&C & CDM’s will re-commence their regular drivers and other competent figures will take their places until the Middle of May, when it’s alleged NR will resite the signals & the interim competent figures are re-allocated to their intended duties.

Think it's an abuse of the cab discipline rule. If PQA, people should only be allowed in your cab to 'keep' trains running. That's different to 'enabling' a service to be operated in my opinion, which is what is being done with signal sighters.

 

[daniel1234321]

Currently on my first 717 ride.
2100 from HFN, though slightly delayed due to incident at KGC/STP, but nothing to do with the train itself!
Much nicer than the 313s, seats will need a bit of getting used to...
But the announcements are quite useful to be honest, mainly as I don’t commute much and don’t know the stations off by heart!

Also bonus is that my Oyster card worked at Hertford!

Oyster now up and running at HFN? I heard Mid March, then delayed until Early April (still says that on Tfl website)

 

[jon0844]

This week I believe, so possibly started working earlier than advertised.

 

[daniel1234321]

Any idea what units are on which diagrams today?