GN Class 717

[TRAX]

What you walk inside the train is less walking outside anyway.

You end up walking the same distance.

 

[Ethano92]

You end up walking the same distance.

But you save time walking through the train whilst it's approaching the station rather than get off at the wrong end and walk along the platform. The longer the train, the greater time saving effect. I walked through a whole 12 car 700 once, you don't appreciate how long they are until you walk from end to end. Anyway, it's what allowed me to be right by the exit to make my connection.

Also don't forget, these trains will be serving London, one of many capitals where every second counts, people are in a rush.

 

[TRAX]

This way of thinking is the exact reason why trains run with cram-packed cars at one end while being completely empty with lots of seats available at the other end.
It's a simple choice. Comfort or laziness ?
Not mentioning the longer dwell times inflicted by packed cars.

 

[717001]

Flows may change at Moorgate once Crossrail opens, as I believe a connection to that will be at the north end of the platforms.

 

[jellybaby]

Flows may change at Moorgate once Crossrail opens, as I believe a connection to that will be at the north end of the platforms.

There isn't a connection on the station diagrams or any sign of work.

 

[Fred26]

Flows may change at Moorgate once Crossrail opens, as I believe a connection to that will be at the north end of the platforms.

The connection is from the Northern Line platforms, which are middle-southern end of the NCL platforms.
The main entrance to Crossrail will be upstairs close to the SSLs.

 

[BowesRanger]

Just passed a 717 heading north between hornsey and harringay. Couldn't tell if it had passengers on board.

Just a test? Or actually in service?

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

ECS if it's this one:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X24858/2018/10/22/advanced

Edit: Looks like it's running up and down much of the inter-peak today between Moorgate and Gordon Hill. Driver training?

 

[BowesRanger]

ECS if it's this one:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X24858/2018/10/22/advanced

Edit: Looks like it's running up and down much of the inter-peak today between Moorgate and Gordon Hill. Driver training?

Yeah that would have been the one.

Assume you're right about driver training

 

[Aictos]

A update from GN about the numbers of the fleet expected to be in FULL passenger service from December see following tweet:

Hello Alex, I believe up to 25. ^Kim

https://twitter.com/GNRailUK/status/1054315838117949440

So that SHOULD be as much as the entire fleet in full passenger service by then!

No idea when the last Class 313 service is going to be operated nor if they will have a farewell tour like the Class 319s did when they left the Thameslink.

 

[gazr]

A update from GN about the numbers of the fleet expected to be in FULL passenger service from December see following tweet:

Hello Alex, I believe up to 25. ^Kim

https://twitter.com/GNRailUK/status/1054315838117949440

So that SHOULD be as much as the entire fleet in full passenger service by then!

No idea when the last Class 313 service is going to be operated nor if they will have a farewell tour like the Class 319s did when they left the Thameslink.

Would be a shame if no farewell tour took place for these stalwarts. Fingers firmly crossed.

 

[717001]

I think the key words are "up to" (or perhaps "which Dec?").

Hopefully there will be at least one, but believe scheduled rollout currently goes through until at least next May.

Each unit has to arrive here and complete approx 2,000 miles fault free running before GTR take it over and we've only had arrival of 8 units reported on here so far. (NB corrected from hours)

 

[jon0844]

Can't see anywhere near the 25 in service by December given the first one is due to be in proper service at the end of November or start of December. Not just runs for driver and staff training.

I am sure there will be a send off event for the media and maybe others, but I think we're likely not going to see the last 313 leave for some time yet.

 

[Taunton]

Each unit has to arrive here and complete approx 2,000 hours fault free running before GTR take it over

2,000 hours running? If it were driven nonstop by a test driver for a full shift, 5 days a week, that would be a YEAR of running before it could be handed over.

Aircraft manufacturers manage to get to customer handover in a few days of tests from the first flight. Why ever the difference?

 

[hwl]

2,000 hours running? If it were driven nonstop by a test driver for a full shift, 5 days a week, that would be a YEAR of running before it could be handed over.

Aircraft manufacturers manage to get to customer handover in a few days of tests from the first flight. Why ever the difference?

Miles...

 

[717001]

Miles...

Have corrected it!

 

[Fred26]

Just passed a 717 heading north between hornsey and harringay. Couldn't tell if it had passengers on board.

Just a test? Or actually in service?

717s are in passenger service on Fridays only, at the moment. Moorgate-Gordon Hill non-stop. Though that could change as the days pass.

 

[Aictos]

717s are in passenger service on Fridays only, at the moment. Moorgate-Gordon Hill non-stop. Though that could change as the days pass.

That does seem to be a waste of resources why not have it work proper diagrams such as ALL Moorgate to Gordon Hill services as a preview service and actually see what they're like in service stopping and starting and you know actually being used to iron out any issues rather then just run them fast between the two...

Especially you've not really seeing any potential issues when you run fast as you might as well 1. Not use the stock or 2. Run it but as ECS both ain't ideal!

I understand not all drivers are trained up on the fleet but surely it's better to be calling at stations along the route then running fast? Least that way both staff and passengers can give feedback on the trains which could be used to improve them!

 

[jellybaby]

That does seem to be a waste of resources why not have it work proper diagrams such as ALL Moorgate to Gordon Hill services as a preview service and actually see what they're like in service stopping and starting and you know actually being used to iron out any issues rather then just run them fast between the two...

Perhaps because they can't currently stop at Old Street and Highbury & Islington?

Official services are due to start end of November, pending some changes at Moorgate for signal sighting and setting up SDO at Old Street and Highbury & Islington (the latter is still being discussed).

 

[Aictos]

Perhaps because they can't currently stop at Old Street and Highbury & Islington?

That doesn't stop them from calling at the other stations though now does it?

If they're going to run them at all then they ought to be used on actual services as a preview instead of running them empty as a white elephant express service.

 

[jellybaby]

That doesn't stop them from calling at the other stations though now does it?

It stops them replacing a current 313 service though.

Perhaps running the additional service as an express is the only way a spare path can be found?

 

[Aictos]

It stops them replacing a current 313 service though.

Perhaps running the additional service as an express is the only way a spare path can be found?

Well trying my hardest not to be sarcastic at GTR but wouldn't it have been a good idea if they ensured that ALL stations between Moorgate and Gordon Hill could cater for the Class 717 fleet BEFORE they entered any kind of passenger service...

THEN they could have diagrammed the Gordon Hill terminators as Class 717 operated and use these specific services as a preview service then as more and more drivers complete the Class 717 training GTR could diagrammed more services as Class 717 operated instead of Class 313 operated.

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit SDO is concerning. Maybe works on the tube which have more doors per coach. But knowing how overcrowded these services get watch dwell times increase. At least the rear doors will be quiet as customers get to know if they use them they are not getting off at the station they need.

 

[ijmad]

I must admit SDO is concerning. Maybe works on the tube which have more doors per coach. But knowing how overcrowded these services get watch dwell times increase. At least the rear doors will be quiet as customers get to know if they use them they are not getting off at the station they need.

It's a little easier on trains with nice wide open gangways and walkthrough carriages. The Overground gets phenomenally crush loaded on the East London Line during the morning peak, and a single door cut out at the rear doesn't seem to cause problems at Canada Water (the busiest station by far).

 

[superalbs]

I can't find any of these Friday services on RTT?

 

[Fred26]

I can't find any of these Friday services on RTT?

They might not show until later in the week.

 

[superalbs]

They might not show until later in the week.

Thanks.

 

[bramling]

That doesn't stop them from calling at the other stations though now does it?

If they're going to run them at all then they ought to be used on actual services as a preview instead of running them empty as a white elephant express service.

Must admit it does seem a strange way of doing it. I can understand the desire for a "soft" launch, but surely running non-stop from end to end is asking for problems on a route where people are used to trains calling at most stations, especially the tunnel ones?!

Seems like it's asking for trouble to me, but then again this is GTR, the operator who chose the strangest and worst possible place to put first class on the 387s!

 

[332 > 444]

Surely these make a DC/AC stop at Drayton Park?

 

[Failed Unit]

It's a little easier on trains with nice wide open gangways and walkthrough carriages. The Overground gets phenomenally crush loaded on the East London Line during the morning peak, and a single door cut out at the rear doesn't seem to cause problems at Canada Water (the busiest station by far).

I guess if it is done and works then this is fine. I know on the tube you get to know which doors to avoid anyway. So us heading to Moorgate will get more room at the rear.