Glasgow Subway new stock

[birchesgreen]

Are any G2 cars being preserved?

 

[hexagon789]

Are any G2 cars being preserved?

Two are earmarked for Riverside, a motor car and a trailer.

I understand the MoSR at Bo'ness may have also been offered a power car?

 

[Mothball]

Two are earmarked for Riverside, a motor car and a trailer.

I understand the MoSR at Bo'ness may have also been offered a power car?

A screenshot from previously mentioned FOI request posted to social media dated 15 May.

 

[hexagon789]

A screenshot from previously mentioned FOI request posted to social media dated 15 May.

Thank you, though that is less than suggested in other quarters where reputedly four vehicles have been set aside and two already guaranteed a home.

 

[Buzby]

What if it broke down? Perhaps they should start selling SPT maquette socks (I‘d certainly buy a pair!)

 

[hexagon789]

What if it broke down? Perhaps they should start selling SPT maquette socks (I‘d certainly buy a pair!)

They already do:

Subway Moquette Socks​

• £11.00

Our iconic seat upholstery is now available in sock form; get yours while you can!
75% Combed Cotton, 23% Nylon, 2% Elastane – one size 7-11

Subway Moquette Socks - Products | Orb Group Shop

 

[Buzby]

They already do:

Thought as much - Geoff Marshall got a freebie!

 

[McRhu]

Back in the day the Subway did a one-off special night - I think it was called The Underground Experience: must've been 1991 or thereabouts. Nobody else seems to remember it apart from me. Anyway; one boarded the train at St Enoch's I think it was. The train then took off round the circuit, hurtling around like a speeding proton at the LHC and passing straight through most stations. It was impossible to tell where you were on the circuit after a minute or two since the windows were curtained off but it gave the impression that you were covering large distances. Every now and again the train would stop and the doors would open and there would be a performance of some kind on the whatever platform you were at. Maybe they could do a G2 themed finale using the same tactic. A mystery tour in space and time round and round stopping now and again for some nostalgic presentation. Some fancy holograms a generous helping of audio visuals, a waft of the Subway smell and Francie & Josie doing the Subway song of course.

 

[jagardner1984]

Quick question - has anyone been on a G2 lately ?

Passed numerous trains this morning and didn’t see a single one. Wouldn’t be surprised if SPT had scrapped the last one without a word !

In other news, during my astonishing wait for a train this morning in the high peak I thought I would put some estimation on how much time is being collectively used each day by the, incredulously, not yet resolved door open / close sequence - which from my comparison with some old G2 videos I found seems to have approximately doubled.

Using my stopwatch and averaging across the stations I stopped at / observed (different circles / units / drivers / stations)

Door Close process (from sounder to train moving) 8.9 seconds

Door Open Process (from sounder to doors fully open) 7.75 seconds.

Obviously one example, but a single journey of 15 stations is therefore using 4 minutes of time with the doors opening or closing.

Based on even a very conservative 8tph (it’s meant to be 16tph in the peak and 10tph on Saturday / from lunchtime, but that seems to be frequently cut to an 8 min service), and for 17 hours of operation a day (0630-2330) ….


G3 Trains therefore spend, collectively, at least 18 hours of the day with their doors either opening or closing or the interminable wait for either process to commence.

It really is astonishing this is not being spoken about more.

 

[Buzby]

It really is astonishing this is not being spoken about more.

Absolutely agree. I’ve just returned from a day on the Birmingham Metro (Trams) as the last time I was there in April nothing was running. Whilst I agree it is not the same transport mode, it’s operation was simplistic as it was frequent. Travelling from Wolverhampton Station to Edgebaston Village on Line 1 took almost the same time as one circuit of the Subway yet it had twice was many stops And onboard staff to check and sell tickets. Even with G3 stock, the Subway remains a quirky affectation but I’d swap it in a heartbeat for the WM Metro!

 

[JModulo]

When I went for a spin on Saturday evening (1st June) there was only one G2 unit out.

 

[EMU303]

Another dismal day… outer circle suspended for hours. Don’t know the cause.
Was speaking with a member of staff and I asked how the new trains were performing.He rolled his eyes and said all the G2 is supposed to be withdrawn by the end of this month but he added “let’s wait and see….”
I guess teething problems are to be expected with the new stock but it does seem to be a near daily occurrence of breakdowns.
Today I noticed that the screens are still not working on the G3 stock and the occasional announcing of the next station by drivers in a near inaudible manner seems amateurish and half hearted.
Today’s suspension of the outer circle was exacerbated by an outgoing police incident at Partick X which stopped all bus services along a large chunk of Dumbarton Rd and elsewhere. Normally the subway would be an easy alternative but it was crushed loads and station congestion in several areas.

 

[jagardner1984]

Searching "Glasubwaytravel" on Twitter is quite the wild ride today. Both circles now suspended again. Some suggestion of staff recovering something that used to be on a train from the tunnel.

x.com

x.com

This will doubtless add to the challenges too ...

x.com

x.com

One of the main objections is there doesn't seem to be any sensible "Smartcards will be credited for journeys today" or similar redress, just the standard "go the other way round" .... often also broken and almost always crush loaded in such a circumstance.

All in all questions of competence, compared to infinitely more complex systems / upgrades / infrastructure ... continue to rumble ...

 

[computerSaysNo]

Searching "Glasubwaytravel" on Twitter is quite the wild ride today. Both circles now suspended again. Some suggestion of staff recovering something that used to be on a train from the tunnel.

x.com

x.com

This will doubtless add to the challenges too ...

x.com

x.com

One of the main objections is there doesn't seem to be any sensible "Smartcards will be credited for journeys today" or similar redress, just the standard "go the other way round" .... often also broken and almost always crush loaded in such a circumstance.

All in all questions of competence, compared to infinitely more complex systems / upgrades / infrastructure ... continue to rumble ...

Please quote the posts here that you are replying to or commenting on. I can see the image of the graffitied train from the second link after clicking on it, but the post in your first link appears to only be viewable if one has an X/Twitter account and is logged in (I don't have an account).

 

[jagardner1984]

Please quote the posts here that you are replying to or commenting on. I can see the image of the graffitied train from the second link after clicking on it, but the post in your first link appears to only be viewable if one has an X/Twitter account and is logged in (I don't have an account).

The first isn’t quotable since it is a search of the term I mentioned, which is the service update account SPT use. But it gives some insight into the frustration felt by users.

Clearly not a scientific sample, but clearly multiple full service suspensions in a single operating day indicates there are real issues here, and those aren’t entirely contained to the G2 stock.

 

[ld0595]

I took my first trip on the new stock today and came out with a few observations:

• It was much quieter inside when on the move. I could actually understand announcements and hear the passengers next to me talk
• The interior is much nicer as you'd expect. I definitely preferred the old seats though.
• Agree with others that the doors take too long to open. I don't understand why it needs to beep for so long before opening.
• The screens showed a map of the subway but not actually where we were. I understand from a previous post here that this will be resolved through.
• I couldn't see any emergency stop handles unlike the old stock which has them along the length of the carriage IIRC.
• Would be good if they had handles over the doors like the old stock. There seems to be a lot of dead space by the doors with nothing to hold on to.
• Minor point but the acceleration leaving the station was odd on both sets I took - two short bursts of what seemed to be higher acceleration. Not really smooth.
• The ride was absolutely shocking. I couldn't believe how much it would shake side to side at higher speeds. My partner was constantly hitting her head against the side with how bad it was. It didn't seem normal in the slightest.

Didn't see any of the old stock out today either.

 

[jagardner1984]

I took my first trip on the new stock today and came out with a few observations:

• It was much quieter inside when on the move. I could actually understand announcements and hear the passengers next to me talk
• The interior is much nicer as you'd expect. I definitely preferred the old seats though.
• Agree with others that the doors take too long to open. I don't understand why it needs to beep for so long before opening.
• The screens showed a map of the subway but not actually where we were. I understand from a previous post here that this will be resolved through.
• I couldn't see any emergency stop handles unlike the old stock which has them along the length of the carriage IIRC.
• Would be good if they had handles over the doors like the old stock. There seems to be a lot of dead space by the doors with nothing to hold on to.
• Minor point but the acceleration leaving the station was odd on both sets I took - two short bursts of what seemed to be higher acceleration. Not really smooth.
• The ride was absolutely shocking. I couldn't believe how much it would shake side to side at higher speeds. My partner was constantly hitting her head against the side with how bad it was. It didn't seem normal in the slightest.

Didn't see any of the old stock out today either.

On the end points- some suggestion upthread the acceleration relating to the ATO Profile - it seems very uneven, to use car terminology, it moves off quite slowly, then noticeably clicks into "neutral" for a while, and then hits a higher gear to pick up, this seems consistent across the sets.

Handles is an often made comment, it seems, these are also missing from long lengths near the walk through carriage sections, there are obvious standing sections with no safe way for people to stand.

Finally on the ride, there is something about the G3 which seems to set the person's back nearer the window, and therefore anyone slightly taller gets the window on their head repeatedly as you go around corners. Perhaps because the seats were previously softer, lower, further forward into the car, this did not seem to be an issue on G2.

Obviously they are a leap forward on the G2 in terms of technology, but I suspect some of these obvious misses will become more evident as people get more used to them.

The Off Peak timetable only requires 6 trains (3 Per Side), this applies to Sundays, All Evenings, before and after the morning peak. Therefore I suspect, assuming even 6 of the 17 trains are available, we will only really see the G2 in the high peak.

It really would be a crime for G2 to vanish without a mention. I'm surprised one of Glasgow's plucky electoral candidates hasn't taken advantage of a photoshoot moment ... or indeed SPT the obvious Charity / Fundraising opportunity. However since all complaints for the last 5 years have been responded to broadly with "all the issues are our legacy G2 fleet, we are working to introduce our G3 fleet in full ASAP, once this is complete, these issues will be no more" ... from the various comments / videos of G3 breakdowns, I suspect announcing the last day of G2 operation has occurred will draw rather more attention to the reliability of the supposed solution to all problems ....

 

[ld0595]

it moves off quite slowly, then noticeably clicks into "neutral" for a while, and then hits a higher gear to pick up, this seems consistent across the sets.

That's exactly how I'd describe it and was the case for both sets I was on.

Finally on the ride, there is something about the G3 which seems to set the person's back nearer the window, and therefore anyone slightly taller gets the window on their head repeatedly as you go around corners.

I was right next to the drivers cab so didn't have a window. The issue I had is that the whole unit seemed to violently shake back and forth at higher speeds. It really didn't seem normal at all. Even my partner who has no interest in it commented at how much it shook. I've also seen mention of how bad the shaking is on social media with people remarking on how bad it is.

 

[hexagon789]

Early suggestions were that the articulated arrangement was producing pronounced hunting at higher running speeds.

 

[ld0595]

Early suggestions were that the articulated arrangement was producing pronounced hunting at higher running speeds.

What can be done to resolve it? Are there even plans to fix it? Oscillation of that level is surely going to cause premature wear on some components and it's not remotely comfortable for the average passenger.

 

[hexagon789]

What can be done to resolve it? Are there even plans to fix it? Oscillation of that level is surely going to cause premature wear on some components and it's not remotely comfortable for the average passenger.

I would assume the two easiest options are modifications to the suspension or lower running speeds. The latter would surely be unacceptable.

 

[ld0595]

I would assume the two easiest options are modifications to the suspension or lower running speeds. The latter would surely be unacceptable.

Lower speeds would definitely be a non starter. The oscillation was also there at lower speeds, albeit not as noticeable. Let's hope the suspension can be modified...

Makes you wonder how this wasn't picked up and addressed in the 5(?) years of testing they've done.

 

[EMU303]

Outer circle closed again around 5pm today. Reliability is really taking a hammering over the last few weeks.

 

[ld0595]

Outer circle closed again around 5pm today. Reliability is really taking a hammering over the last few weeks.

Unbelievable. I'd be curious to know what essential maintenance works need done.

 

[jagardner1984]

Really feel for the staff having to deal with this day to day. They really shouldn't be dealing with multiple suspensions in a single working day. All considerations of COVID etc aside, it is really hard to believe (but true) it is now more than FIVE YEARS since the first G3 train arrived in Glasgow. It will be interesting to see, given the presence of a number of politicians are on the SPT board, whether there may be some Inquiry into the delivery of the modernisation project.

Members | SPT | Strathclyde Partnership for Transport

Meet the 20 elected members of the SPT board, representing the 12 constituent authorities in the West of Scotland and between seven and nine appointed members.

www.spt.co.uk

 

[Tayway]

Has anyone seen any of the old G2 stock out and about this week? Made a trip on Monday about 10am and back again about 5pm and only saw the new stock on both circles.

 

[jagardner1984]

Has anyone seen any of the old G2 stock out and about this week? Made a trip on Monday about 10am and back again about 5pm and only saw the new stock on both circles.

Overwhelmingly G3 now. Saw a G2 on the inner about 11pm last night. More chance in the high peak from 0800-0930 and from 1600-1800

Interesting to see a G3 running this evening with a fault - wondered why the door lights were lit in red including in transit (the section that flashes white on door movement). Doors did not open at stations. Since I was in a middle car - only one set of doors and I had to go elsewhere to exit. Not sure if others have seen similar faults ?

 

[DanNCL]

128 arrived at the Riverside Museum yesterday. Apparently it’s already on public display today, can anyone confirm?

 

[allancmcd]

Bit of a write up in one of the Scottish dailies, mentions some of the issues highlighted in this thread such as the signage, journey times and (sort of) addresses the disruption.

Glasgow Subway admits new trains mean longer journey times​

THE transport body which runs Glasgow Subway has said the new trains have increased journey times, The National can reveal.

Strathclyde Partnership for Transport (SPT), who have run Glasgow Subway since 2006 and is the largest of Scotland’s seven regional transport partnerships, confirmed passenger journeys are taking longer with the new trains.

SPT have said the reasoning behind why the new trains, which are a part of its £288 million modernisation programme, are running longer than their older counterparts is because of the signaling system. They do, however, expect to reduce journey times once the system has been fully updated.

A spokesperson said: “Journey times for the new trains to complete a circle in the network do take slightly longer than the legacy trains. This is, in part, due to the new trains running on the legacy signalling system. Once we have completed the installation of the new signalling and communications system in the next stage of modernisation, we expect this time to reduce.”

Yesterday, June 12, The National told how the travel group plan to introduce new ticket prices from June 24 after reducing the number of travel zones in the network from 12 to seven. One commuter who uses a SPT ZoneCard said their transport bill is set to increase by a staggering £152.60 every month because of the changes.

The National can also reveal the transport body has “not kept a formal note of suspensions or reasons for them” until this year. According to the data obtained there have been 48 suspensions from this year to date with the reasons given as a result of train breakdowns, signalling and power failures, and other operational issues. There were also a number of passenger incidents which have required assistance from the emergency services which have caused suspensions.

When asked about the specific numbers on delays, cancellations and suspensions for this year and in comparison, to previous years a spokesperson said: “Until this year, we have not kept a formal note of suspensions or reasons for them.”

SPT have been rolling out a new fleet of subway trains in a bid to modernise the 128-year-old subway system. A fleet of 17 modern electric trains will replace the 12 existing ones, which have been on the route for more than 40 years and have been phased in over the last several months.

There have been teething issues with the integration of the new trains. The temporary update to signage which changed from showing the train frequency as opposed to the next train information was introduced while SPT made updates to timetable information in the system. Signage has since returned to say, “next train due”, but the limited information shown on the internal train screens is still an ongoing issue.

However, SPT have confirmed they plan on updating the internal train screens as they “move through the next stages of modernisation”. Plans include visual and audio information which will tell passengers which train side to alight, automated announcements for the next station, and other relevant passenger information.

From the introduction of the new trains in December 2023, SPT have had 11 formal complaints from passengers specifically mentioning them.

 

[Buzby]

I very much dislike the passive ’we expect’ the service to run faster. Rather that ‘it will’ - it does smack of bum covering nonsense!