Glasgow suburban

[norbitonflyer]

Planning a trackbashing trip to Glasgow which includes the Larkhall branch and the Kelvindale spur (Maryhill-Anniesland)* .

I noticed an odd thing, that there seem to be plenty of trains from Anniesland to Larkhall, but in the other diretion a change is necessary at Partick. On further investigation it appears that Larkhall-Dalmuir trains run via Yoker, whilst Dalmuir - Larkhall trains run via Singer and Anniesland. Conversely, Dalmuir-Motherwell trains via Hamiton are routed via Yoker, and trains in the other direction are routed via Anniesland and Singer.

Is there any reason for this odd imbalance?

*(and several other lines that were not open in 1980 when I was last trackbashing that far north, namely Airdrie-Bathgate, Alloa, Cowlairs chord (Queen Street High level to Springburn), Leven, Ravenscraig spur, Tweedbank, Whifflet via Mouth Vernon, and the Dalmeny-Winchburgh curve (the latter service to be restored in December)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is there any reason for this odd imbalance?

I suspect it'll be pathing reasons at the junctions; it is a rather intensely operated network and most of the junctions are still flat ones.

 

[AMD]

Dalmeny-Winchburgh curve

If you're keen, the last 4 passenger services into Edinburgh from Fife go this way Monday to Thursday at the moment.
*I say keen as they are 23:24 and later from Inverkeithing!

 

[norbitonflyer]

If you're keen, the last 4 passenger services into Edinburgh from Fife go this way Monday to Thursday at the moment.
*I say keen as they are 23:24 and later from Inverkeithing!

Thanks for the hint, but I'd be planning to do it after the new timetable comes in in December (and probably not until there is more daylight!) when the Dundee-Gal;sgow service gets reinstated, which will run at a rather more civilised hour.

And an overnight in Glasgow, rather than Edinburgh, is necessary if the Ravenscraig spur is to be done.

 

[Kite159]

I presume the "Ravenscraig spur" is the connection between Motherwell & Holytown?

 

[Falcon1200]

I presume the "Ravenscraig spur" is the connection between Motherwell & Holytown?

Or perhaps the route from Holytown to Wishaw via the former Ravenscraig steelworks?

 

[norbitonflyer]

I presume the "Ravenscraig spur" is the connection between Motherwell & Holytown?

No - done that - back when i was seriously trackbashing in the area there was a Motherwell to Edinburgh service via Shotts

Or perhaps the route from Holytown to Wishaw via the former Ravenscraig steelworks?

Yup that's the one. It used to have an hourly service (Argyle Line to Lanark via Hamilton Central) before the reorganisation following electrification of the Whifflet line.

 

[Falcon1200]

Yup that's the one.

An interesting routing is that of Transpennine's 1M73 0744 Glasgow C-Liverpool LS, which runs via Baillieston, Whifflet, through Mossend Yard, Mossend North-East Jcs and the Holytown-Wishaw line, regaining the WCML at Law Jc.

 

[Bikeman78]

Planning a trackbashing trip to Glasgow which includes the Larkhall branch and the Kelvindale spur (Maryhill-Anniesland)* .

I noticed an odd thing, that there seem to be plenty of trains from Anniesland to Larkhall, but in the other diretion a change is necessary at Partick. On further investigation it appears that Larkhall-Dalmuir trains run via Yoker, whilst Dalmuir - Larkhall trains run via Singer and Anniesland. Conversely, Dalmuir-Motherwell trains via Hamiton are routed via Yoker, and trains in the other direction are routed via Anniesland and Singer.

Is there any reason for this odd imbalance?

*(and several other lines that were not open in 1980 when I was last trackbashing that far north, namely Airdrie-Bathgate, Alloa, Cowlairs chord (Queen Street High level to Springburn), Leven, Ravenscraig spur, Tweedbank, Whifflet via Mouth Vernon, and the Dalmeny-Winchburgh curve (the latter service to be restored in December)

The detail of the timetable has changed a few times over 25 years when Larkhall was opened and Whifflet electrified. Back in class 303/314 days there only four trains per hour on the Argyle line. All went to Motherwell, two via Bellshill (one continued to Lanark) and two via Hamilton (one continued to Coatbridge Central). At some point the Coatbridge was diverted to Lanark via Holytown.

North West of Glasgow, each route from Dalmuir to Hyndland had four trains per hour. Two from each route went to Central and Queen Street. From memory the service was as follows repeating every half hour.
Dalmuir-Yoker-Bellshill-Motherwell
Dalmuir-Singer-Hamilton-Motherwell
Dalmuir-Yoker-High Street (westbound started at Bellgrove)
Balloch-Singer-Airdrie
Helensburgh-Drumgelloch (non stop from Dalmuir to Hyndland via Yoker)
Milngavie to Springburn

Helensburgh and Balloch interworked via Drumgelloch and Airdrie but I never could remember the cycle. There were a few rush hour expresses from Garscadden or Anderston to Lanark or Carstairs that stormed along the WCML and missed out Bellshill.

When Larkhall opened, the Dalmuir to High Street was diverted to Larkhall. So the Yoker line lost its direct service to Queen Street, but the Argyle line increased to six trains per hour. For a while, the Larkhall trains ran semi fast between Argyle Street and Blantyre. In the back of my mind there was a period when Larkhall ran to Milngavie and Springburn ran to Dumbarton via Yoker.

When Whifflet was wired, it made sense to run that route from the Argyle line because it was a non conflicting move at Rutherglen junction. So Dalmuir to Motherwell via Bellshill diverted to Whifflet and trains via Bellshill to Lanark ran from Glasgow Central high level instead. I think that was the point at which the service west of Glasgow become non symmetrical in terms of destination at the east side. Some routes dwell at Central for a few minutes to make it all fit.

The above is all from memory so feel free to add or correct.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2025 ==

Yup that's the one. It used to have an hourly service (Argyle Line to Lanark via Hamilton Central) before the reorganisation following electrification of the Whifflet line.

The 0739 Carstairs to Garscadden and 1737 Anderston to Carstairs both use that route.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The 0739 Carstairs to Garscadden and 1737 Anderston to Carstairs both use that route. [Holytown- Wishaw]

Difficult to fit in though, as you need to be up betimes to get the morning one (or, if visiting from England as i would, bale out of the sleeper at Carstairs at the crack of dawn, or at Motherwell and backtrack), and the evening one seems to require a long wait at Wishaw before you can get back to Glasgow

 

[Peter0124]

Alternatively, the first two Avantis northbound go via Wishaw and Holytown

 

[norbitonflyer]

An interesting routing is that of Transpennine's 1M73 0744 Glasgow C-Liverpool LS, which runs via Baillieston, Whifflet, through Mossend Yard, Mossend North-East Jcs and the Holytown-Wishaw line, regaining the WCML at Law Jc.

That, or the balancing evening working, are what I might do, but since the next stop south is Lockerbie it again really only makes sense to do it either at the beginning or end of the trip.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2025 ==

Alternatively, the first two Avantis northbound go via Wishaw and Holytown

I hadn't spotted that one, but a 0531 start from Euston (or 0428 from Glasgow) doesn't appeal! (I'd rather use the sleeper)

 

[greatkingrat]

Difficult to fit in though, as you need to be up betimes to get the morning one (or, if visiting from England as i would, bale out of the sleeper at Carstairs at the crack of dawn, or at Motherwell and backtrack), and the evening one seems to require a long wait at Wishaw before you can get back to Glasgow

It's a 25 minute wait at Wishaw, which isn't that long. Or stay on until Carluke for a shorter wait.

 

[Bikeman78]

Difficult to fit in though, as you need to be up betimes to get the morning one (or, if visiting from England as i would, bale out of the sleeper at Carstairs at the crack of dawn, or at Motherwell and backtrack), and the evening one seems to require a long wait at Wishaw before you can get back to Glasgow

It's a +4 off the sleeper at Motherwell, but I wouldn't bank on it. I was very lucky that the sleeper arrived five early giving me time to nip upstairs and buy a ticket. Carstairs was duly ticked off for a 320, then back into Glasgow. Just Wemyss Bay left to do now.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It's a +4 off the sleeper at Motherwell, but I wouldn't bank on it. I was very lucky that the sleeper arrived five early giving me time to nip upstairs and buy a ticket. Carstairs was duly ticked off for a 320, then back into Glasgow. Just Wemyss Bay left to do now.

My current thinking, after the Deecmber changes and with two overnights in Glasgow is

DAY 1 Euston-Wigan-(Wishaw, Whifflett)-Glasgow

DAY 2 Queen Street - (Maryhill) - Anniesland - Springburn - (Cowlairs curve) Queen Street - Alloa - Queen Street - (Airdrie) - Edinburgh - Tweedbank - Edinburgh - Leven - Inverkeithing - (Winchburgh chord) - Queen Street

DAY 3 Central - Larkhall - Central - Euston

With the possibilities of swapping Larkhall and Alloa, and of doing the Maryhill loop on day 3 (either day would be before 0915, to make best use of the Scottish Central Rover which can't be used before 0915 but does not cover the Maryhill line.

Anyway, we are straying into trip planning here.