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Ghost Trains to catch metal thieves?

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AlterEgo

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http://travel.aol.co.uk/2011/11/27/police-run-night-time-ghost-trains-to-catch-metal-thieves/

Undercover police are travelling on special night time trains in a bid to catch the scrap-metal thieves who are causing chaos for rail passengers.

The 'ghost trains' are four carriages long and carry a team of four officers from British Transport Police and Network Rail.

They travel late at night with their lights dimmed and their engines muffled to allow officers with infrared cameras to catch thieves in the act.

The team are in radio contact with police vehicles, which follow the train's route by road, ready to chase any criminals who attempt to flee.

In the last seven months alone, 1,969 trains have been cancelled because of 675 copper cable thefts and police figures show 14 times more copper-cable burglaries have taken place in Britain this year compared with five years ago.

Matthew Dickerson, head of Network Rail's cable-theft task force in East Anglia, said: "It is a tactic we are increasingly using to counter metal thieves as well as to provide a deterrent. We previously used the trains during the day to prevent vandalism or trespassing but now 80 per cent of operations are aimed at preventing cable thefts at night. It is an effective strategy."

Criminals are willing to risk their lives to steal the copper lined cables on railways because the price of copper has doubled in the past two years.

This has left Network Rail, which owns and operates Britain's rail network, with a £10.1million bill, which it admits will be passed on to passengers.

Hadn't heard of this initiative before. What kind of train are they using? Some sort of multiple unit?
 
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73001

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I remember the police doing this sort of thing in the late 80's and early 90's to catch people throwing rocks/bricks at trains in certain areas. At the time, they just used DMUs (108s etc) and they had police on the train and following in cars. They must have got a shock when the train screeched to a halt and a dozen bobbies started running after them!
 

driver9000

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These trains are often run with the cooperation of the local TOC who provide the trains so they will be formed of the usual traction found on those lines. There was a BBC report not so long ago that filmed on board one run in the SE with police travelling on what looked to be a 317 EMU. These trains are sometimes referred to as 'Q trains' running as required with permission to stop in section, they have been running for years on and off.
 
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I remember there being a class 47 in Police livery running around at the turn of the century!

Wasn't that supposed to deter railway crime?
 

driver9000

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I remember there being a class 47 in Police livery running around at the turn of the century!

Wasn't that supposed to deter railway crime?

That was in police livery to promote a BTP railway safety campaign at the time. It was a VXC loco and was seen hauling ordinary passenger trains too.
 

Greeny

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On the subject of metal/cable thefts, when I was an Inspector at Liverpool I received a call from a Signalman at Edge Hill one Monday morning. He said “you’d better get up here” so I asked him why. He said “the OHLE is sagging down outside of the Box”. He had a reputation for exaggerating things but you can’t take any risk with 25Kv. So I got up there and he was not exaggerating – the OLE was sagging all the way up the ‘crack’ sidings down to Picton Road bridge.

So, I toddled off up the sidings until the wires were about three feet of the ground and 5 feet from the ‘cess’. By this time cowardice had replaced curiosity and I had crossed to the other side of the Sidings It was only two roads, with a wall either side and going uphill at a very steep angle, it was used by Downhill as a storage Sidings for coaches but it was empty at the time.

Have you ever had that feeling where you know there is something seriously wrong, but you can’t quite put your finger on what?. Well about half way up the Sidings I got that feeling. When I got to the top there was OLE and insulators on the ground and it was obvious what was wrong: there was about 100 yards of Contact Wire missing – nicked in fact.

Someone had cut into the anchor point with bolt cutters during the weekend isolation and legged it with about 100 yards of wire. They had to have staff knowledge I’m sure. Anyhow, the Electric Control Room Operator refused to believe what I was telling him and wasn’t keen on granting an emergency isolation as he’d have to isolate everything from Speke Feeder Station to TOW Lime Street Station. So I told him to leave it live until OLE Staff arrived to localise it, and I’d make sure nobody went near it. OLE staff arrived and were gobsmacked that it could happen. They also believed that either staff were involved or, at least, provided the information.

A few weeks later, the thieves returned but got the nastiest surprise of their lives. They cut in between the anchor point and the last insulator so that bit was dead anyway and they weren’t hurt. But, when the OLE hit the ground it tripped the CB’s and there was an almighty flash and bang, and they legged it empty handed.

A few years later, I was on duty in the Box. There were two rows of condemned coaches on the ‘Crack’ sidings. About 10 pm I was looking up the Sidings when I saw ‘something’ move. Then there was a terrific flash, and a bang, then a scream from up there, and then something burning on the roof of a condemned coach. So it was obvious what happened. I got an emergency isolation, called the Emergency Services and advised Downhill CS Staff and Control. They found the body of a 17 year old boy on top of the coach. Two of his friends were found close by badly shaken. Eventually they permanently isolated and earthed the Sidings and (to my knowledge) there has been no further attempts to nick OLE from the area.

Anyhow, I hope people found this useful.

G
 

callum112233

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They travel late at night with their lights dimmed and their engines muffled to allow officers with infrared cameras to catch thieves in the act.

How do they muffle the engines?
And isn't it unsafe to drive around with 'dimmed' lights?

Also, I found your story very interesting Greeny.
 

driver9000

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I think the dimmed lights refers to saloon lighting rather than external lighting. Turning the saloon lights off give those inside a better view out of the train and also helps to hide them from view.

I don't think the engines are muffled either, rather they will use multiple units which have quieter engines.
 

jopsuk

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I think, what with the reference to "East Anglia" in the report in the first post, that this is the widely publicised operation between Bishops Stortford and Liverpool Street using a 317. Which makes the "engines muffled" bit rather odd (much as it would help to muffle the motors of a 317!)
 

driver9000

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I think, what with the reference to "East Anglia" in the report in the first post, that this is the widely publicised operation between Bishops Stortford and Liverpool Street using a 317. Which makes the "engines muffled" bit rather odd (much as it would help to muffle the motors of a 317!)

The BBC report which included a filmed report was on board what looked to me to be a 317 with the saloon lighting off.
 

OxtedL

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The 37 in police dress up, with FGW?!! I think you're thinking of the 43s, they'll be around with the TOCs...?

Unless I'm being thick.

Edit: Nice edit there Matt :lol: :D
 

fgwrich

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I saw that in Eastleigh yard yesterday!

What you'd have seen is probably likely to have been 47828 - The Ex Virgin, Ex Cotswold Rail and now DRS 47...

47829 sadly however, is still sat in Long Marston under the ownership of a Mr H Needle...
 

Lrd

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What you'd have seen is probably likely to have been 47828 - The Ex Virgin, Ex Cotswold Rail and now DRS 47...

47829 sadly however, is still sat in Long Marston under the ownership of a Mr H Needle...

It was in Police livery. As I said earlier, I will check tomorrow.
 

tsr

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I once saw a maintenance train with a blue flashing police-style light on the roof at East Croydon about five years ago and all the waiting passengers were quite amused. Anyway... ;)
 

Greeny

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I once saw a maintenance train with a blue flashing police-style light on the roof at East Croydon about five years ago and all the waiting passengers were quite amused. Anyway... ;)

It has no operational reason as a blue light on the railway means nothing to a Train Driver/Signalman etc. it is a warning to staff walking round the On track Machine on the track that the machine is working so keep away from moving parts. Some Ballast Cleaners carry them though I'm not sure about any other type of OTM.

G
 

tsr

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It has no operational reason as a blue light on the railway means nothing to a Train Driver/Signalman etc. it is a warning to staff walking round the On track Machine on the track that the machine is working so keep away from moving parts. Some Ballast Cleaners carry them though I'm not sure about any other type of OTM.

G

Ah, I see. That makes sense - thanks.
 

Greeny

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I once had a couple of Merseyside Coppers stride onto a worksite at Mossley Hill Station threatening to nick the Machine Operators for the illegal use of blue lights. I asked them what they were on about and if they had asked the Keystones to look into it. One of them replied haughtily that he didn’t need to ask the BTP anything as he had reasonable grounds to suspect that a criminal offence had been committed simply by the illegal use of the blue lights. So I asked him what specific law had been broken. He quoted something from the vehicle lighting regulations. So I asked him in what situation a Rail Ballast Cleaner would be working on a public road. .......... Silence, then he hummed and harr’ed and blustered, so I asked him how his knowledge was on the subject of trespass, and would he like me to ask the BTP to enlighten him. They had the sense to shut up and get off the worksite muttering something about a smart a*se. If they hadn’t come at me with an attitude I may have been a bit less hostile, but coming at me like that just rubbed me up the wrong way.

G
 

tsr

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The point is that the vehicle lighting regulations as specified under various laws only cover motor vehicles. Whether or not the Rail Ballast Cleaner was a motor vehicle is, as far as the police are concerned, a debatable matter, and providing it is visible from a public right of way, they should deal with it if it is a motor vehicle.

Presumably since it involves mechanical traction it is a motor vehicle. I'm sure there's been a proper debate or a court case on this subject but I have no idea when, where or what the outcome was.

One could argue that it might travel over a level crossing, in which case the blue light could potentially be a distraction for motorists (turned on or not, as some people get distracted easily). As such, it might be a bit more sensible to have a less ambiguous warning, but I have no idea what could be used.

Certainly if it did travel over a level crossing and had a blue light flashing at a rate of between two and four times per second between 1.2 and 4 metres above ground whilst it was not employed in emergency service work then an offence would be committed.

EDIT: I'm not on anyone's side in particular here. The police should not trespass but Machine Operators should be aware of relevant vehicle lighting regulations.
 

73001

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The point is that the vehicle lighting regulations as specified under various laws only cover motor vehicles. Whether or not the Rail Ballast Cleaner was a motor vehicle is, as far as the police are concerned, a debatable matter, and providing it is visible from a public right of way, they should deal with it if it is a motor vehicle.

Presumably since it involves mechanical traction it is a motor vehicle. I'm sure there's been a proper debate or a court case on this subject but I have no idea when, where or what the outcome was.

One could argue that it might travel over a level crossing, in which case the blue light could potentially be a distraction for motorists (turned on or not, as some people get distracted easily). As such, it might be a bit more sensible to have a less ambiguous warning, but I have no idea what could be used.

Certainly if it did travel over a level crossing and had a blue light flashing at a rate of between two and four times per second between 1.2 and 4 metres above ground whilst it was not employed in emergency service work then an offence would be committed.

EDIT: I'm not on anyone's side in particular here. The police should not trespass but Machine Operators should be aware of relevant vehicle lighting regulations.

The legal definition... "a mechanically propelled vehicle, intended or adapted for use on roads"... I don't think you'd get far on a road in a ballast cleaner. In addition to this, the lighting regulations applying to blue lights are from the 'Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations'.
 
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